HockeyBuzz Hotstove: Hotstove: Thoughts On Mike Hoffman's Extension With The Senators?

I think they signed Mike Hoffman to play hockey

Hoffman is elite. Great deal.

Good to see them get it done. Dorion seems to be set in making them better and to win now, though I still wonder on the Sens internal budget and if Dorion can get enough bang for the buck to really make the team that much better.

Odd that an older Hoffman, signed to a slightly higher cap hit get's much more praise than Schenn's deal. Excel spreadsheets at it again.

Odd that an older Hoffman, signed to a slightly higher cap hit get's much more praise than Schenn's deal. Excel spreadsheets at it again.
- Baxter27

Hoffman is better...

https://public.tableau.co...HDRN2F?:display_count=yes

Great deal for the Sens. Hoffman's numbers are great, and when you delve into deeper stats like the aforementioned 5v5 points, he's even better. I'm somewhat surprised that Hoffman agreed to what most consider to be a rather team-friendly deal, given the previous lowball arbitration deal he had ($2 mil) and the 11th hour deal this time round. Either he doesn't hold a grudge or he really likes Ottawa (or perhaps both).

Hoffman is better...

https://public.tableau.co...HDRN2F?:display_count=yes
- Feds91Stammer

Hoffman didn't break out until he was the age Schenn will be going into next season.

From a total results stand point, Schenn matched Hoffman this last season. I get they are different players. One finished strong and the other fell off from his red hot start. Odd to me that most prefer the guy who fell off.

Fair enough...but I guess it comes down to "what sets them apart"..."what unique quality" do they bring to the team via their skill set. Legitimately I want to know from a flyers fan what is "special" about Schenn's game. With Hoffman, he's a fast skater with a powerful shot and one of the quickest (if not the quickest) release in the nhl. It's those abilities that give people confidence that he will continue to be a 20+, 25+ goal scorer.

Hoffman didn't break out until he was the age Schenn will be going into next season.

From a total results stand point, Schenn matched Hoffman this last season. I get they are different players. One finished strong and the other fell off from his red hot start. Odd to me that most prefer the guy who fell off.
- Baxter27

Forwards generally peak at the age of 24 so your age argument is fairly pointless.

Hoffman scores at a higher 5v5 rate. Hoffman has a higher impact on possession. The only reason the points were equal was because Schenn got more PP ice time on a better PP team.

Hoffman>Schenn

Fair enough...but I guess it comes down to "what sets them apart"..."what unique quality" do they bring to the team via their skill set. Legitimately I want to know from a flyers fan what is "special" about Schenn's game. With Hoffman, he's a fast skater with a powerful shot and one of the quickest (if not the quickest) release in the nhl.
- Sens2k5

Hoffman is a top 10 sniper. Schenn is not top 10 in any skill set.

Great deal for the Sens. Hoffman's numbers are great, and when you delve into deeper stats like the aforementioned 5v5 points, he's even better. I'm somewhat surprised that Hoffman agreed to what most consider to be a rather team-friendly deal, given the previous lowball arbitration deal he had ($2 mil) and the 11th hour deal this time round. Either he doesn't hold a grudge or he really likes Ottawa (or perhaps both).
- TheMaritimer

Yeah I was also suprised the deal wasn't closer to 6M. You compare this deal with those of other players making similar points, like Okposo, O reilly... It's hard to unerstand why Hoffman doesn't get at least similar money, if not more.

Hoffman wanted to stay in Ottawa because he is closer to home, he will keep getting first line/second line minutes and he was previously coached by Guy Boucher who developped him into a better player and top scorer of the QCHL. They happen to have a great relationship and HOffman knows guy boucher will make him the number one guy for powerplays.

Hoffman didn't break out until he was the age Schenn will be going into next season.

From a total results stand point, Schenn matched Hoffman this last season. I get they are different players. One finished strong and the other fell off from his red hot start. Odd to me that most prefer the guy who fell off.
- Baxter27

I like Schenn, and I don't mind his deal as I think he'll continue to produce at a similar level to how he did this season for the next few years, but Hoffman is on another level.
HERO charts show a pretty massive difference between Schenn and Hoffman:

http://public.tableau.com...2C2PY4?:display_count=yes

Fair enough...but I guess it comes down to "what sets them apart"..."what unique quality" do they bring to the team via their skill set. Legitimately I want to know from a flyers fan what is "special" about Schenn's game. With Hoffman, he's a fast skater with a powerful shot and one of the quickest (if not the quickest) release in the nhl.
- Sens2k5

Amen!

Hoffman didn't break out until he was the age Schenn will be going into next season.

From a total results stand point, Schenn matched Hoffman this last season. I get they are different players. One finished strong and the other fell off from his red hot start. Odd to me that most prefer the guy who fell off.
- Baxter27

Schenn is a decent second line player and that's pretty much where he will stand for the rest of his career. He doesn't show splashes of talent in his game, but he is a well rounded player. Those characteristics are nowhere close to Hoffman if you acutally look at pure raw talent. Stats can show one thing, but other particuliarities of players are great add-ons to have. Hoffman is a very fast and agile skater, draws possession of the puck, hes a great puck carrier, has one of the top shot release in the NHL, scores a lot of goals (in the top 6 of the NHL 5 vs 5).

What are the defining characteristics of Shcenn? I see him as an average second liner with mediocre potential of improving, but not as much as Hoffman does even if the Hoff is older. That potential has to do with the characterisitics the players bring to the game. Schenn is a decent player, but doesn't take a genius to figure out Hoffman is a much better bargain at the same contract amount.

Forwards generally peak at the age of 24 so your age argument is fairly pointless.

Hoffman scores at a higher 5v5 rate. Hoffman has a higher impact on possession. The only reason the points were equal was because Schenn got more PP ice time on a better PP team.

Hoffman>Schenn
- Feds91Stammer

So my age argument is pointless because players generally peak at age 24? You realise your supporting a player who didn't even break out until he was 25? Schenn has been consistently improving in the NHL for 5 seasons.

Schenn was the 6th highest point producer in 2016. Was that all because of the Flyers power play that struggled down the stretch? These isolated stats your quoting don't tell the whole story. The game is still played for a reason.

Each player's contribution to their own power play would play a role in it's success... no?

So my age argument is pointless because players generally peak at age 24? You realise your supporting a player who didn't even break out until he was 25? Schenn has been consistently improving in the NHL for 5 seasons.

Schenn was the 6th highest point producer in 2016. Was that all because of the Flyers power play that struggled down the stretch? These isolated stats your quoting don't tell the whole story. The game is still played for a reason.

Each players contribution to their own player play would play a role in it's success no?
- Baxter27

What?

You seem quite clueless.

You come in and cry how nobody said as many good things about a player on your favorite team and don't like it when people tell you Hoffman is better.

Fair enough...but I guess it comes down to "what sets them apart"..."what unique quality" do they bring to the team via their skill set. Legitimately I want to know from a flyers fan what is "special" about Schenn's game. With Hoffman, he's a fast skater with a powerful shot and one of the quickest (if not the quickest) release in the nhl. It's those abilities that give people confidence that he will continue to be a 20+, 25+ goal scorer.
- Sens2k5

Hoffman better score 20+, 25+ goals if his main Strengths are being fast and having one of the better shots in the NHL.

What?

You seem quite clueless.

You come in and cry how nobody said as many good things about a player on your favorite team and don't like it when people tell you Hoffman is better.
- Feds91Stammer

You seem quite classless. I started a reasonable debate about 2 comparable players. You run out of fancy stats to quote so you act confused. Conversation over.

You seem quite classes. I started a reasonable debate about 2 comparable players. You run out of fancy stats to quote so you act confused. Conversation over.
- Baxter27

You have no data to show Schenn is better. They are only comparable in the sense that you are comparing 2 things that are different.

The best thing about this deal is the way it is structured. The Sens get Hoffman at a bargain price next season (3.8M$) and his no trade clause doesn't kick in until the following season. This allows the Sens to keep evaluating Hoffman's development without breaking the bank and gives them flexibility to move him if things don't pan out as much as they hoped before the NTC kicks in. In the end, if he needs to be moved, they will at least get something back in a trade.

If things do pan out and Hoffman scores 35 goals, they have him locked up at a very good price for another three years. Honestly, I don't think Dorion could have had a better deal than this.

Would you rather have a player who has career similarity scores close to J. Gaudreau, M. Stone, and F. Forsberg or a player with career similarity scores close to C. Atkinson, K. Palmieri, and C. Smith?

He's getting traded next summer. Management had never been super high on the Hoff, elite scorer but coaches don't seem to love his game.

His salary year 1 is $3.5 and it goes up to $5.5 in the last 3 years. They will trade Hoff before his salary gets to $5.5, they have Stone, Turris, Pageau to resign not to mention Lazar.

After Francis Perron has had 1 year in the AHL he can step in, a Hoffman clone. They also have the Dahlen who is also a small LW that will be ready in 2 years. Perron will get about 5 games this year to get him ready, and then they will flip the Hoff out to have $$$ to sign Stone, Turris and company.

And also flipping Hoff after another big season, his value will be at an all time high, still young, elite speed. He'd get the team a lot and releave the cap space.

He's getting traded next summer. Management had never been super high on the Hoff, elite scorer but coaches don't seem to love his game.

His salary year 1 is $3.5 and it goes up to $5.5 in the last 3 years. They will trade Hoff before his salary gets to $5.5, they have Stone, Turris, Pageau to resign not to mention Lazar.

After Francis Perron has had 1 year in the AHL he can step in, a Hoffman clone. They also have the Dahlen who is also a small LW that will be ready in 2 years. Perron will get about 5 games this year to get him ready, and then they will flip the Hoff out to have $$$ to sign Stone, Turris and company.

And also flipping Hoff after another big season, his value will be at an all time high, still young, elite speed. He'd get the team a lot and releave the cap space.
- tuna99

Except they just hired a coach who won a QMJHL championship with Hoffman as his best player...

Except they just hired a coach who won a QMJHL championship with Hoffman as his best player...
- Feds91Stammer

They are pumping the Hoff up right now to be a coaches dream, they are removing any doubt about Hoff's sandy legacy with Cameron and Walrus about his coach-ability, Dorion is going to get his value as high as he can and flip him out for a big package this summer.

Hoff is a nice piece, but not an essential part of the core IMO

EK, Stone, Turris, Brassard, Ceci, Phaneuf, Methot, Pageau, Lazar, Smith - this is the core of the team that I would keep long term. And White, Chabot, Dahlen, Brown, Perron and Englund seem to be the next wave of core players.