Ed Stein: Ice Cream - Anaheim Ducks Style

No news is ok with me / just nothing dumb / there are deals out there to be had and something will pop - I just hope the Jones deal accelerates 47 getting locked up -

Signing Hampus to a long term deal is all I'm waiting for.
The Fowler to Detroit deal would be great for Cam but I can't see anything of consequence coming back from Detroit that can help Anaheim now. They are thin everywhere and they aren't trading Larkin. Does Murray take a chance on Nyquist?

I still can't believe the Hall/Larsson trade. My brother and I were speculating that maybe Fowler for Hall would work but Murray would have to throw something else in to make it work. Looks like we were wrong.

Signing Hampus to a long term deal is all I'm waiting for.
The Fowler to Detroit deal would be great for Cam but I can't see anything of consequence coming back from Detroit that can help Anaheim now. They are thin everywhere and they aren't trading Larkin. Does Murray take a chance on Nyquist?

I still can't believe the Hall/Larsson trade. My brother and I were speculating that maybe Fowler for Hall would work but Murray would have to throw something else in to make it work. Looks like we were wrong.
- duxcup07

I think Fowler for Nyquist would be a fair trade. Nyquist will give you another guy to provide offense and generally should finish with 20 goals and 50 points. Like Detroit, Anaheim is thin at offense and Nyquist could be an upgrade over some of your guys.

To be honest, I'm not sure if either side would do the deal at this point. Problem for Anaheim is if they don't do the deal they will risk losing Fowler at the expansion draft.

Signing Hampus to a long term deal is all I'm waiting for.
The Fowler to Detroit deal would be great for Cam but I can't see anything of consequence coming back from Detroit that can help Anaheim now. They are thin everywhere and they aren't trading Larkin. Does Murray take a chance on Nyquist?

I still can't believe the Hall/Larsson trade. My brother and I were speculating that maybe Fowler for Hall would work but Murray would have to throw something else in to make it work. Looks like we were wrong.
- duxcup07

Nyquist For Fowler intrigues me but there is a risk there - and Detroit has nothing else that interests me other than Larkin -

Perhaps there is a deal at Carolina to be made or perhaps revisit the leafs & JVR if that is even a chance -

I think Fowler for Nyquist would be a fair trade. Nyquist will give you another guy to provide offense and generally should finish with 20 goals and 50 points. Like Detroit, Anaheim is thin at offense and Nyquist could be an upgrade over some of your guys.

To be honest, I'm not sure if either side would do the deal at this point. Problem for Anaheim is if they don't do the deal they will risk losing Fowler at the expansion draft.
- RedDog18

As it stands now, we're protecting Bieksa (required), Lindholm and probably Shea Theodore. That exposes Vatanen, Manson, and Fowler. No matter what we do, we're losing a young defenseman with upside....unless we lose Fowler.

I'd love to know if Murray offered Fowler for Hall. It sure would be nice to have a guy like that on our roster.

Ducks would be crazy to not buyout Bieksa if he is still with the team next off-season and is unwilling to waive his NMC.

Great read!

I like how management does things in Anaheim. Bob and company clearly have a system of how they do things. For a team that's made the playoffs so much in the past decade it takes serious commitment to a management strategy for prolonged success. Saying bye to Bobby Ryan and Nick Bonino was tough, but the center depth is there, and there is skillful youth on the blueline.

I don't know if Bob is going to take another gander at a Frankenstein top wing project. I hope he doesnt, but with free agency on the horizon we'll see. This team needs a fourth line center that can win faceoffs heading into training camp. Chris Wagner might be able to take the next step. They might bring Shawn Horcoff back. It's a bit of a question mark there.

It looks like Stoner is staying on for another campaign in a Ducks sweater. His cap hit is high for a fringe player, but he knows this system and this team. It's a trade-off, but come mid season and a banged up blueline Bob will be happy with this choice.

Right now forwards are looking like: Perry, Getzlaf, Rakell, Kesler, Silfverberg, Cogliano, Ritchie, and Garbutt. So managment has to find 4 NHL caliber forwards for training camp. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for Perron. This team isn't in a bad situation cap wise, but they got there work cut out for them. The loss of Thompson is bad. He's had a difficult year, and this latest injury is a major hindrance for him and this team.

There also needs to be a backup goalie signed. So that's 6 players with 15.5 million in cap space. Rakell, Lindholm, Perron, 3 forwards and a goalie. Iike Ed said, "Vanilla." The core is there. Now it's about the toppings hahaha

They just signed Tokarski to an extension.

Lindholm, Theodore and Vatanen will be protected for sure. Bieksa will be bought out or traded during the season. Hope the Ducks can trade Fowler for a forward but Manson will probably walk then

Taylor Hall was not the captain. A leader yes. But Andrew Ference was their last labelled captain and everyone knows that CMD is their current real captain.

yzermaneely

Anaheim isn't required to protect Theodore. Players having 2 years or less of NHL/AHL contractual obligation are exempt from the expansion draft.

Anaheim's keepers I assume based on the roster as it sits now would by the 8 skater option.

Getzlaf, Perry, Kesler, Silfverberg, Bieksa, Fowler, Lindholm, Vatanen & Gibson. That means Anaheim would be faced with losing 1 of Despres or Rackell I assume.

Now I assume a Dman will be moved at some point but not necessarily. Losing Despres or Rackell isn't ideal although not devastating. That said Murray will most likley move a D or we all assume he will. Time will tell.

I don't post to hockeybuzz often, just on the odd occasion but I read Ed Stein religiously & generally only weigh in when people are to far off the mark.

If you read my posts else where, I have commented repeatedly on the cost to acquire a top 2 NHL Dman. It is very rare to even see 1 moved & should 1 there is usually extenuating circumstances or more often than not at point of trade the Dman isn't really even a #1 or 2 yet but has the potential. Go back 5 or 10 years & find the trades where 1 has moved, age, salary demands, refusal to sign, injury issues generally are in play. Expansion has certainly created extenuating circumstances. Edm's inability to acquire 1 since losing Pronger 10 years ago are extremely extenuating circumstances.

The only way a team is moving this type of asset is if they have virtually no choice or the price being paid is so high you can't say no. Hall for Larson. Hard for NJ to say no but now NJ just gave up 1 of the best young defensive Dman coming up the ranks. He may have sailed under the radar since being drafted 4th overall in 2011 but this is a young stud defenseman who has 274 games on NHL regular season just turned 23 in November & stands 6'3" & 205 lbs.

Larsson played as NJ's #2 Dman last season playing 22:30 TOI/GP. NJ was not a good team, Larrson & Schneider stole games for NJ. Larsson did all the heavy lifting, deployed in almost entirely all defensive situations seeing virtually ZERO PP time, 0:10 PP TOI/GP. He finished +15, Greene was the next closest at D at +7 no other regular finished better than -8 & Schlemko was -22. Schlemko & Moore 2 UFA signings got virtually all the PP time. NJ just felt Larsson was to valuable on the defensive side of the puck to waste his icetime on the PP. Not fair as no PP time for a Dman means virtually no points. The fact that Larsson managed 18 points starting almost every shift in the defensive zone, killing penalties doing all the heavy lifting is a significant accomplishment.

Larsson is going to be a stud, he is already actually just on a side of the game that no 1 really follows. The defensive side of the gane Here's how he stacks up against the 300+ Dman that played in the NHL last season. His TOI/GP of 22:30 ranked him 45th overall, hits 18th overall, blocked shots 27th overall. That's #2 Dman minutes based on his peers & in hits & blocked shots he makes the top 30 in each #1 Dman stats.

Larsson has only played 274 NHL regular season games. It takes NHL Dman in or around 400 to fully develop so he is still 126 or a season & a 1/2 from showing the player he will be when he starts hitting 27, 28 the start of most NHL Dman's prime years. With 5 years at slightly more than 4.1 in cap hit this was a fabulous acquisition by Edmonton. Exactly what they needed. The cost was high & it always is. For a team to lose this type of player you have to make them an offer they can't refuse. 1 of the only ways teams trade this asset, none of the other were in play for NJ.

Edmonton is a better team with Larsson than Hall. Hall is replaceable, not entirely by points but by role. NJ is a worse team today as now their D is beyond Brutal & it wasn't good before moving Larsson. Greene a kid, Sverenson & a bunch of has beens & never will be's. NJ just got worse significantly so as you can't win games if you can't stop the other team from scoring.

This should help to give you Anaheim fans some perspective of Fowlers worth. No way in hell Fowler at 24 making, 4 million per season for 2 more years is being moved straight up for Nyquist, JVR, etc that many of you are suggesting. That's stupid. Now I'm not saying Fowlwer will return a Hall, no team was as desperate for a Dman as Edm has been for the last decade until yesterday. Now NJ has put themselves in the exact position Edm has been in. Weird but hard to pass on a stud LW like Hall. I hope Shero has a plan.

If Folwer or another Dman don't return a significant package Anaheim should protect 4 Dman, Bieksa, Fowler, Vatanen & Lindholm in the expansion draft & accept losing Despres or Rackell. That's better long term asset management than giving Fowler away under value. Fowler is a soft #1 or strong #2 NHL Dman. Anaheim has a luxury very few teams have. They have 1 of the best if not the best D's in the NHL. It's unfortunate they gave Bieksa an NMC as ideally you wouldn't be protecting him, allowing for potentially the 7F, 3D & 1G option retaining Rackell or potentially still using the 8 skater option protecting Despres.

Despres looked terrible upon returning from his concussion & here's hoping he can put it all back together again but if he can't potentially losing him or Anaheim's #3 C in Rackell is far less painful than giving away Fowler an asset that is virtually impossible to acquire, find or develop. No harder position to fill in the NHL & Anaheim's luxury is why they are a serious cup contender. D's win championships, well generally, Pittsburgh just made a mockery of that, although I blame SJ for not pressuring players like Lovejoy & Cole who looked like the 2nd coming of Bourque & Coffee respectively given that time & space coming out of their own zone.

Rakell is going to be protected - a young dynamic center with hands, size, skill and speed and can either make his own plays or set guys up to finish is not going to be exposed to the expansion draft -

yzermaneely

Anaheim isn't required to protect Theodore. Players having 2 years or less of NHL/AHL contractual obligation are exempt from the expansion draft.

Anaheim's keepers I assume based on the roster as it sits now would by the 8 skater option.

Getzlaf, Perry, Kesler, Silfverberg, Bieksa, Fowler, Lindholm, Vatanen & Gibson. That means Anaheim would be faced with losing 1 of Despres or Rackell I assume.

Now I assume a Dman will be moved at some point but not necessarily. Losing Despres or Rackell isn't ideal although not devastating. That said Murray will most likley move a D or we all assume he will. Time will tell.
- striker777

Here's where I disagree, to a certain extent. Losing Rakell would be devastating, to the Ducks. He hit the 20 goal threshold last year, and I really believe he's just starting to show his potential. The organizations center depth is woefully thin, which Rakell addresses (even though he was used at wing also). This team cannot afford to lose Rakell. Period.

I think BM will move Fowler, but he's not going to give him away. He can wait until the trade deadline, where value would be greatest. He could be moved after the season (before the expansion draft), but his value is diminished in that scenario. Also, it's possible the player coming back would need protection. If the expansion draft is foremost in BM's mind, the D moved has to be Bieksa. Just moving D (ie. Stoner) won't help. My guess is if he's unwilling to waive his NMC, he'll be bought out after this season.

I think when push comes to shove, the Ducks would either move Bieksa or buy the rest of his contract out.

I'm guessing the buy out would be a last resort for the Ducks and their cap, but you can't just give away Rakell for free.

My guess is they would protect:

Forwards
1. Getz
2. Perry
3. Kesler
4. Silf
5. Rakell
6. Cogs
7. Free Agent LW

Defense
8. Vats
9. Lindholm
10. Fowler / Manson (assuming Manson if Fowler is moved for a free agent LW and since Fowler will only have one year remaining and we could sign him as a UFA after one year if we wanted)

Goalie
Gibson

quackup

No need to disagree as I said. based on where Anaheim sits today. The NHL expansion draft is a year away. Murray will address the roster long before then. He's 1 of the best GM's in the league. No rush. Anaheim won't lose Rackell when push comes to shove but again based on the current roster that's what any GM would do. Easier to replace rackell than Fowler & in trade Fowler is way more valuable.

Your not wrong with any of your argument you just didn't take mine correctly.

CptAhab

You need to go read the expansion rules. Bieksa has an NMC & must be protected. No way Cogliano is being protected under any scenario. Unless Anaheim's roster changes significantly in the next year Anaheim will be using the 8 skater option not the 7 & 3.

quackup

No need to disagree as I said. based on where Anaheim sits today. The NHL expansion draft is a year away. Murray will address the roster long before then. He's 1 of the best GM's in the league. No rush. Anaheim won't lose Rackell when push comes to shove but again based on the current roster that's what any GM would do. Easier to replace rackell than Fowler & in trade Fowler is way more valuable.

Your not wrong with any of your argument you just didn't take mine correctly.
- striker777

I acknowledge you think BM will make moves to keep Rakell, but you made a statement earlier that it's possible Rakell or Despres will be lost to expansion. Now you're back peddling by saying "Anaheim won't lose Rakell when push comes to shove...". You can't have it both ways.

I think there is zero possibility of losing Rakell. That's where we differ. You think it "easier" to replace Rakell. Yes, in a trade scenario I can see it, but where I digress is there's zero reason to replace Fowler should he be traded, so it's a mute point. We have organizational depth to absorb a Fowler trade. He have zero depth if we lose Rakell. Trading for C, but losing Rakell, is not going to make the team better.

I acknowledge you think BM will make moves to keep Rakell, but you made a statement earlier that it's possible Rakell or Despres will be lost to expansion. Now you're back peddling by saying "Anaheim won't lose Rakell when push comes to shove...". You can't have it both ways.

I think there is zero possibility of losing Rakell. That's where we differ. You think it "easier" to replace Rakell. Yes, in a trade scenario I can see it, but where I digress is there's zero reason to replace Fowler should he be traded, so it's a mute point. We have organizational depth to absorb a Fowler trade. He have zero depth if we lose Rakell. Trading for C, but losing Rakell, is not going to make the team better.
- quackup

People wake up - for the last time the very last time - RR is going to be Duck going forward - get it straight - -

CptAhab

You need to go read the expansion rules. Bieksa has an NMC & must be protected. No way Cogliano is being protected under any scenario. Unless Anaheim's roster changes significantly in the next year Anaheim will be using the 8 skater option not the 7 & 3.
- striker777

I guess I'm not clear. Why wouldn't we be able to buyout Bieksa's contract? After this season he will have one year left. Couldn't we buyout out the final year? Why would we need to protect a player who isn't on our roster? Or do they have rules against that? I haven't seen anything, but that could be a detail they would work out.

I agree that we would use the 8 skater option, unless we only are protecting 3 defensemen anyway. (If Fowler gets moved, I'd rather keep Vats, Lindholm and Manson and expose Despres).

People wake up - for the last time the very last time - RR is going to be Duck going forward - get it straight - -
- dozerD10

This can't be directed my way. I agree with you 100%.

I guess I'm not clear. Why wouldn't we be able to buyout Bieksa's contract? After this season he will have one year left. Couldn't we buyout out the final year? Why would we need to protect a player who isn't on our roster? Or do they have rules against that? I haven't seen anything, but that could be a detail they would work out.

I agree that we would use the 8 skater option, unless we only are protecting 3 defensemen anyway. (If Fowler gets moved, I'd rather keep Vats, Lindholm and Manson and expose Despres).
- CptAhab

We probably will. Unless he waives his NMC to allow for a trade, I think he will be bought out after this season.

We probably will. Unless he waives his NMC to allow for a trade, I think he will be bought out after this season.
- quackup

The Ducks are going to lose a defenseman to expansion. There is no reason to buyout Bieksa because it wont change anything, they would still expose at least 2 of the young core defenders. The Ducks should expose Vatanen, Manson and Fowler and protect Lingholm, Theodore and Bieksa (because they have to). Theodore replaces Vatanen easily and Fowler only has 1 year after expansion before becoming UFA anyway. With Montour, Larsson and Petterson coming up, I'm not worried about losing Manson or Despres. Expansion will not hurt the Ducks as much as everyone thinks it will.