Jared Crozier: Karlsson Nominated For Norris; Lottery Could Be Second Win Of The Week

There's always hope.
The team needs another elite talent to go with Chabot & White before it can have the depth & elite talent to put it in the top 10 teams that are true contenders for the Cup.

worst trophy in the league... the winner of best dman can't even play on the PK

worst trophy in the league... the winner of best dman can't even play on the PK
- Bigern4MVP

Sigh, another commenter who clearly hasn't watched Karlsson this year.

Erik Karlsson played 108:58 on the PK this year, which obviously isn't as high as Doughty and Burns, but when you're playing nearly half the game already, do you really need him to kill more penalties?

You're the kind of guy that would buy a racehorse and then use him to pull a wagon.

Misnomer: Ottawa has a nearly 10% chance to land in the top 3. This is not accurate unfortunately.

They have a 2.5% chance of winning #1. Assuming that they don't, then the odds change. If a team with a better chance than them wins that pick, then it odds reset for the 2nd pick. If the team that won the #1 pick had better odds than them, then every other teams odds get adjusted to compensate for the win. The biggest increase the Senators would see in their odds would be if Toronto wins the #1 pick. If a team behind them wins #1, then their odds of winning #2 or #3 actually decrease because everything has to adjust again.

So it's not really accurate to say that they have a roughly 10% chance of landing in the top 3. They have a 2.5% chance of landing at #1, probably around a 3% chance of landing at #2, and assuming they haven't beat those odds and the winners of the first two picks had a better chance than they did, then a roughly 3.5% chance of winning the #3 pick.

You can't just add all three together to get around 10%, because they are three independent draws and assuming that you'll get Ottawa in the top 3 once out of every 10 tries doesn't account for the adjustments to other teams. It's lower than 10% by a fairly wide margin.

I've always felt Burns was a really underrated D-man. Glad to see him in there. One year Doughty will get his due eventually (felt he played better last year), but you can't ignore what Karlsson accomplished individually this year. Even Burns putting up his numbers is impressive.

Karlson, Burns, and Doughty. In that order for me.

Lottery should be interesting. Would be nice to have some luck go our way, but highly unlikely. Matthews is the prize of the draft. The two Finns look decent, but I'm always weary of highly touted euros. They seem to have a harder time adjusting to the NHL, even with North American hockey experience. Not that I wouldn't pick them, it's just they will take longer to develop than Matthews.

I still think trading the first rounder for an NHL ready player might be in the clubs bas interest, assuming they remain where they are now. Give Karlsson a squad he can compete with for the next 3 seasons. It will help immensely in retaining him once his contract is up.

Sigh, another commenter who clearly hasn't watched Karlsson this year.

Erik Karlsson played 108:58 on the PK this year, which obviously isn't as high as Doughty and Burns, but when you're playing nearly half the game already, do you really need him to kill more penalties?

You're the kind of guy that would buy a racehorse and then use him to pull a wagon.
- the_terror

This is where I think Burns will garner some extra votes. His offence is close to the level of Karlsson, but does a little more in his own zone. Still feel it's Karlsson's trophy to loose, but wouldn't be surprised if Burns sneaks out a victory.

“What I would say is we should change [the voting process]. We’ve actually discussed this at the general managers [meetings]. So I wouldn’t completely cut the media out. What I would say is the media would give us three of their candidates and let us vote on it, because it’s too important of a trophy that reflects way more, way more than what people are looking at. And you know what the beauty of that position is? It’s a classic case where greatness is the subtleties. And that number one defenseman, what makes him special, unless you really understand the game and see some of the things he does, you have to study the game, not watch the game and realize what he does is really special, and it has nothing to do with the highlights and the points and all this stuff. Every general manager knows it. 99% of the players know it. It’s not a highlight film position. It’s not supposed to be. And we turned it into [that] because Paul Coffey, I guess, pulled it off. But at least Paul Coffey was at least in the playoffs. And this stuff that ‘he plays for a better team,’ how good do you think we are without him? How about the other way around?”

“It's not even close...All you’ve got to do is stay up and watch the west coast games and you’ll know why. I don’t even have to explain it to you. When I read some of the things I read, it’s like ‘are you kidding me?’”

"If you're going to win, I don't care how good you are, you're going to have to play the other side of the puck. You're going to have to make those little plays that aren't going to show up on the highlights. His defensive partners -- the little things he'll do just to get his partner time to make a play. He's three steps ahead of everything, and because he is that, he makes it look easy."

-Dean Lombardi

““What I would say is we should change
- tkecanuck341[the voting process]. We’ve actually discussed this at the general managers [meetings]. So I wouldn’t completely cut the media out. What I would say is the media would give us three of their candidates and let us vote on it, because it’s too important of a trophy that reflects way more, way more than what people are looking at. And you know what the beauty of that position is? It’s a classic case where greatness is the subtleties. And that number one defenseman, what makes him special, unless you really understand the game and see some of the things he does, you have to study the game, not watch the game and realize what he does is really special, and it has nothing to do with the highlights and the points and all this stuff. Every general manager knows it. 99% of the players know it. It’s not a highlight film position. It’s not supposed to be. And we turned it into [that] because Paul Coffey, I guess, pulled it off. But at least Paul Coffey was at least in the playoffs. And this stuff that ‘he plays for a better team,’ how good do you think we are without him? How about the other way around?””

-Dean Lombardi

Not an overly surprising quote from Doughtys very own General manager.

Not an overly surprising quote from Doughtys very own General manager.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

“They’ve got a nice, solid, strong hockey team there, and sometimes you start to undervalue the individual because the goaltender can do some great things and they have powerful forwards up front. I’m not comparing the style of play, but you had to watch Nick Lidstrom play a lot of games before you fully appreciated how great he was, not because he wasn’t going coast-to-coast and he wasn’t 'spin-o-rama.' He was just making the right play. So slightly different styles, but in terms of value to a team, a guy who can play that many minutes, play against the other team’s best and at the same time generate numbers on a bit of a defense-first [team] – I think five-on-five we’ve scored as many goals as they have, [but] our records aren’t even close to being the same because there’s a different structure to what they do – he’s one of those players. I don’t know if it’s fully appreciated. I don’t think it’s a bias. I think it’s just human biology. People go to bed early. You don’t watch the third periods of a lot of games when you’re on the east. This guy’s a dominant defenseman in this league, dominant.”

-Paul Maurice

“What I would say is we should change
- tkecanuck341[the voting process]. We’ve actually discussed this at the general managers [meetings]. So I wouldn’t completely cut the media out. What I would say is the media would give us three of their candidates and let us vote on it, because it’s too important of a trophy that reflects way more, way more than what people are looking at. And you know what the beauty of that position is? It’s a classic case where greatness is the subtleties. And that number one defenseman, what makes him special, unless you really understand the game and see some of the things he does, you have to study the game, not watch the game and realize what he does is really special, and it has nothing to do with the highlights and the points and all this stuff. Every general manager knows it. 99% of the players know it. It’s not a highlight film position. It’s not supposed to be. And we turned it into [that] because Paul Coffey, I guess, pulled it off. But at least Paul Coffey was at least in the playoffs. And this stuff that ‘he plays for a better team,’ how good do you think we are without him? How about the other way around?”

“It's not even close...All you’ve got to do is stay up and watch the west coast games and you’ll know why. I don’t even have to explain it to you. When I read some of the things I read, it’s like ‘are you kidding me?’”

"If you're going to win, I don't care how good you are, you're going to have to play the other side of the puck. You're going to have to make those little plays that aren't going to show up on the highlights. His defensive partners -- the little things he'll do just to get his partner time to make a play. He's three steps ahead of everything, and because he is that, he makes it look easy."

-Dean Lombardi

Shold I go into the kings blog and post quotes from Ottawa coaches, Players and execs? They're as bias and one sided as this is, but in karlsson's favour.

“They’ve got a nice, solid, strong hockey team there, and sometimes you start to undervalue the individual because the goaltender can do some great things and they have powerful forwards up front. I’m not comparing the style of play, but you had to watch Nick Lidstrom play a lot of games before you fully appreciated how great he was, not because he wasn’t going coast-to-coast and he wasn’t 'spin-o-rama.' He was just making the right play. So slightly different styles, but in terms of value to a team, a guy who can play that many minutes, play against the other team’s best and at the same time generate numbers on a bit of a defense-first
- tkecanuck341[team] – I think five-on-five we’ve scored as many goals as they have, [but] our records aren’t even close to being the same because there’s a different structure to what they do – he’s one of those players. I don’t know if it’s fully appreciated. I don’t think it’s a bias. I think it’s just human biology. People go to bed early. You don’t watch the third periods of a lot of games when you’re on the east. This guy’s a dominant defenseman in this league, dominant.”

-Paul Maurice

Oh don't get me wrong. I think Doughty is a great d-man. I felt he should have won the Norris last year (if you want to go back and look at last years Sens blogs, my comments are there). Doughty is a special d-man. I don't think it has anything to do with Eastern bias really. How can there be bias when 2 of the 3 nominees are from the West? Once of which is a relatively newcomer for the Norris award.

I think if you want to say Doughty deserves the Norris this year, you have to be prepared to back that up with some argument that overcomes what Karlsson accomplished this year (point wise). Doughty had 51 point and Karlsson had 82. 31 point difference. Is Doughty the equivalent of 31 points better everywhere else on the ice? I'm not sure he is that much better by that kind of margin.

I think Doughty is a little better as an overall dman who does a bit of everything. Karlsson forte is his offensive abilities, but is not guy in a canoe without a paddle defensively. He can certainly hold his own. Like it or not, points come into play. You just can't ignore how much better Karlsson is in that respect. As I said earlier, wouldn't surprise me if Burns came out on top. He's a little more well round as a d-man and piled up a good amount of points.

Id love to see Ottawa, Edmonton and some other team like Carolina get the top 3. The crying out of Toronto would be glorious.

Id love to see Ottawa, Edmonton and some other team like Carolina get the top 3. The crying out of Toronto would be glorious.
- Iggysbff

Winnipeg is the other Canad team that I am most cheerin for. Those guys cou use a elite centerman to pu them in the mix.

Winnipeg is the other Canad team that I am most cheerin for. Those guys cou use a elite centerman to pu them in the mix.
- SensFan25

Oh I don't really care who gets it...I'd just love the leafs fans crying their hearts out.

Oh don't get me wrong. I think Doughty is a great d-man. I felt he should have won the Norris last year (if you want to go back and look at last years Sens blogs, my comments are there). Doughty is a special d-man. I don't think it has anything to do with Eastern bias really. How can there be bias when 2 of the 3 nominees are from the West? Once of which is a relatively newcomer for the Norris award.

I think if you want to say Doughty deserves the Norris this year, you have to be prepared to back that up with some argument that overcomes what Karlsson accomplished this year (point wise). Doughty had 51 point and Karlsson had 82. 31 point difference. Is Doughty the equivalent of 31 points better everywhere else on the ice? I'm not sure he is that much better by that kind of margin.

I think Doughty is a little better as an overall dman who does a bit of everything. Karlsson forte is his offensive abilities, but is not guy in a canoe without a paddle defensively. He can certainly hold his own. Like it or not, points come into play. You just can't ignore how much better Karlsson is in that respect. As I said earlier, wouldn't surprise me if Burns came out on top. He's a little more well round as a d-man and piled up a good amount of points.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

It's like Maurice says. It's not a bias, but rather that the people that are doing the voting have no idea what they're voting on. Most East coasters don't watch the West coast games, so they only think Doughty is "a little better," although they've probably only seen him play a handful of games.

You know who does watch all of the games? GMs. Lombardi has it right. Let the media select their top 3 candidates for the trophy, then let the GMs vote on the winner. I bet that if that were the case, we'd have an entire different list of winners over the last five or six years.

It's like Maurice says. It's not a bias, but rather that the people that are doing the voting have no idea what they're voting on. Most East coasters don't watch the West coast games, so they only think Doughty is "a little better," although they've probably only seen him play a handful of games.

You know who does watch all of the games? GMs. Lombardi has it right. Let the media select their top 3 candidates for the trophy, then let the GMs vote on the winner. I bet that if that were the case, we'd have an entire different list of winners over the last five or six years.
- tkecanuck341

So much butthurt......I love it

It's like Maurice says. It's not a bias, but rather that the people that are doing the voting have no idea what they're voting on. Most East coasters don't watch the West coast games, so they only think Doughty is "a little better," although they've probably only seen him play a handful of games.

You know who does watch all of the games? GMs. Lombardi has it right. Let the media select their top 3 candidates for the trophy, then let the GMs vote on the winner. I bet that if that were the case, we'd have an entire different list of winners over the last five or six years.
- tkecanuck341

Not sure why this debate has to be one side or the other. Both Karlsson and Doughty are great NHL d-men. Assuming Doughty is getting snubbed because people go to sleep is a little silly. There should be appreciation for both guys. Both have a different style of play, but both contribute to their team being better.

All Doughty lovers should appreciate what Karlsson has accomplished this season and recognize that it's a pretty impressive feat.

All Karlsson lovers should recognize that Doughty is a franchise d-man in the same light and is superior in other aspects of his game.

It's similar to the Crosby - Toews debate that is popular amongst fans. Who is better? Who would you build around? Both great player but both play different styles. While you might like one better than the other, you have to appreciate what the other has to offer.

The Norris goes to the best player who is a defenseman, not to the better defensive player. It's as simple as that. Although Doughty is most definitely the better defensive player, he is no where near the greatness that is Erik Karlsson.

Not sure why this debate has to be one side or the other. Both Karlsson and Doughty are great NHL d-men. Assuming Doughty is getting snubbed because people go to sleep is a little silly. There should be appreciation for both guys. Both have a different style of play, but both contribute to their team being better.

All Doughty lovers should appreciate what Karlsson has accomplished this season and recognize that it's a pretty impressive feat.

All Karlsson lovers should recognize that Doughty is a franchise d-man in the same light and is superior in other aspects of his game.

It's similar to the Crosby - Toews debate that is popular amongst fans. Who is better? Who would you build around? Both great player but both play different styles. While you might like one better than the other, you have to appreciate what the other has to offer.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

Crosby is the better hockey player, no question about that.

There's always hope.
The team needs another elite talent to go with Chabot & White before it can have the depth & elite talent to put it in the top 10 teams that are true contenders for the Cup.
- SensFan25

There sure is. Hi Spatso.

Oh I don't really care who gets it...I'd just love the leafs fans crying their hearts out.
- Iggysbff

Hi.

Hi.
- systemtool