Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Weal, Couturier, Prospects, Alumni Game & More

Good morning Bill. Hope you and the family are safe and well from all the snow.

Do you think Hakstol would change up the top 2 lines, even drop someone like Raffl to the 3rd, to balance out the lines to help with the scoring?

Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Weal, Couturier, Prospects, Alumni Game & More
- bmeltzer

Look at those prospects doing well in their respective leagues.........the next challenges aren't too far away.

anyone see lucic last night? he's a (frank)ing punk

Good morning Bill. Hope you and the family are safe and well from all the snow.

Do you think Hakstol would change up the top 2 lines, even drop someone like Raffl to the 3rd, to balance out the lines to help with the scoring?
- Pelle31Forever

Apart from moving Voracek to the Bellemare line for awhile -- which was as much about getting Voracek to stop putting so much pressure on himself and to just simplify his gae for awhile -- Hakstol hasn't been too inclined to move players from the top six into the bottom six.

Look at those prospects doing well in their respective leagues.........the next challenges aren't too far away.
- ob18

Agreed. They may not be NHL-ready at this moment but they are pro-ready at least.

anyone see lucic last night? he's a (frank)ing punk
- 2Real

I can only imagine. ...

I can only imagine. ...
- Pelle31Forever

he sucker punched a coyotes player in the head after a play
its only a matter of time before he bertuzzi's someone

Agreed. They may not be NHL-ready at this moment but they are pro-ready at least.
- bmeltzer

Many here aren't going to be patient in their development, but I'm along for the ride.

he sucker punched a coyotes player in the head after a play
its only a matter of time before he bertuzzi's someone
- 2Real

Can't say I'm surprised. He's always been a thug. Just wish there was a guy in the league that could knock him right the (frank) out

Thanks Bill. The kids seem to be coming along nicely, and I hope that they can carry that over to the NHL once their time arrives.
At this point in time, I would prefer McD over White. I just don't care for his ill-timed penalties, and his lack of any offensive production; not that I expect him to score like G, just to add an assist here, and there. McD is bigger, and stronger than White, plus he can do just about everything that White is doing, and do it smartly.
I would have given Weal a chance, and brought in Cuz. Scotty L, and Cuz seemed to have some chemistry, and might even chip in a helper, or two. Thus, at least we could have some resemblance of a third line; ie. insert Weal into this line as well. It's not like we are going to challenge for a playoff spot, so why not? For me, this is the time to experiment with lower two lines, and see what players can do. In addition, we could bring some guys up to get their feet wet. I mean it's better than watching the same players struggle for consistency every game. Plus, I could stomach the loses much better than how they are losing now; at least there is an excuse, and shows that management isn't going to settle for sub-par play.

I can understand all the reasons Bill mentioned for the continued use of Umberger. But if you are 29th in a 30 team league in scoring, maybe you need a so called 12th forward to chip in something.

Umberger, while not a liability most nights, brings nothing offensively. He's had 2 assists since October 31st. The last time he scored a goal was 362 days ago. He's not used much on special teams, he's not a shut down forward & he's not really bringing anything to the table.

If he could even help on the PK, where even mainstays like Bellemare & VandeVelde have been barely adequate & others used, such as White, have been downright bad. You need more than an absolute stiff & that's what Umberger has brought. Jack poop.

I can understand all the reasons Bill mentioned for the continued use of Umberger. But if you are 29th in a 30 team league in scoring, maybe you need a so called 12th forward to chip in something.

Umberger, while not a liability most nights, brings nothing offensively. He's had 2 assists since October 31st. The last time he scored a goal was 362 days ago. He's not used much on special teams, he's not a shut down forward & he's not really bringing anything to the table.

If he could even help on the PK, where even mainstays like Bellemare & VandeVelde have been barely adequate & others used, such as White, have been downright bad. You need more than an absolute stiff & that's what Umberger has brought. Jack poop.
- Jsaquella

Wow. You'd think he'd get one by now just by pure dumb luck. Maybe even pull a Knuble and have a puck deflect off his keister into the net

Wow. You'd think he'd get one by now just by pure dumb luck. Maybe even pull a Knuble and have a puck deflect off his keister into the net
- five4fighting10

He's the human equivalent of tossing a stick on the ice to take a shift.

I'm not buying Haketol's defense of Umberger, over the last few weeks he's looked like he's lost a step and he seems to be contributing zilch. Why not flip Raffl and Read and try:

Raffl-Weal-Laughton
VDV-PEB-White

Or keep Gagner up, sit White (who has looked awful the last couple games) and try:

Raffl-Weal-Gagner
VDV-PEB-Laughton

He's the human equivalent of tossing a stick on the ice to take a shift.

Exactly -- I totally understand why Hakstol plays him, but at the same time, it's borderline crazy to me that you feel so hamstrung that you feel you have to do it

You are going to get nothing from the player. The body of work of the last season and a half, injured or not, indicates that you are going to get absolutely nothing

When you coach, to me, you have to eventually become comfortable with the idea of risk. No, you don't want the 12th forward to hurt you. But when they're getting caved in and you bench them, then they are hurting you. It doesn't always have to be pucks in the net

At some point, Hakstol has to understand the difference between trying not to let a guy hurt you who's done, to giving a player a player a chance who might help you

It's a subtle difference. It might not work. But what have you lost? You can always go back to Umberger. You don't have to play Weal or anyone else forever. But we are well past the point where a coach should have looked at Umberger's game and just said you can't do it anymore at this level and given someone else a chance

Exactly -- I totally understand why Hakstol plays him, but at the same time, it's borderline crazy to me that you feel so hamstrung that you feel you have to do it

You are going to get nothing from the player. The body of work of the last season and a half, injured or not, indicates that you are going to get absolutely nothing

When you coach, to me, you have to eventually become comfortable with the idea of risk. No, you don't want the 12th forward to hurt you. But when they're getting caved in and you bench them, then they are hurting you. It doesn't always have to be pucks in the net

At some point, Hakstol has to understand the difference between trying not to let a guy hurt you who's done, to giving a player a player a chance who might help you

It's a subtle difference. It might not work. But what have you lost? You can always go back to Umberger. You don't have to play Weal or anyone else forever. But we are well past the point where a coach should have looked at Umberger's game and just said you can't do it anymore at this level and given someone else a chance
- AllInForFlyers

Understanding the reasons is one thing, but those reasons should be valid.

The problem with talking about structure & professionalism in the case of Umberger is, those things don't really exist in his play. He's not a risk, but he's just awful. Brings nothing offensively, is merely adequate defensively in a sheltered role. He's bringing nothing to the table, at all. I'd be amazed if Weal or Gagner can't bring more to the table

umberger is a known quantity. weal is a quasi-known quantity. i see zero harm in giving last year's ahl playoff mvp a chance to see what he can do. it's pretty (frank)ing simple.

Can't say I'm surprised. He's always been a thug. Just wish there was a guy in the league that could knock him right the (frank) out
- Pelle31Forever

john scott

umberger is a known quantity. weal is a quasi-known quantity. i see zero harm in giving last year's ahl playoff mvp a chance to see what he can do. it's pretty (frank)ing simple.
- hammarby31

Hexy just seems to want another good draft pick with no urgency to amp up the scoring or defense

Whatever happens to Weal, if this team wants to succeed down the stretch, it cannot have the PEB line be the third line. They've contributed fourth line points in juicier third line minutes. Fact is, while the team has been winning of late, it has never been down to the bottom six. The top two lines are carrying them. Which can work, but it's always dangerous business when they hit a wall. The team desperately needs to form a third line that is an offensive threat. Flyers already have a shutdown line. That's not what the third has to be (and that's not what the PEB line is either).

My issue is why does Weal have to replace Umberger as the "12th forward"? Is that not resigning the PEB line to the third? The goal should be replacing Umberger with an actual middle six player so as to boost that line and knock down the 4th...to the 4th. The real 12th forwards on this team should be VDV and White.

Whatever happens to Weal, if this team wants to succeed down the stretch, it cannot have the PEB line be the third line. They've contributed fourth line points in juicier third line minutes. Fact is, while the team has been winning of late, it has never been down to the bottom six. The top two lines are carrying them. Which can work, but it's always dangerous business when they hit a wall. The team desperately needs to form a third line that is an offensive threat. Flyers already have a shutdown line. That's not what the third has to be (and that's not what the PEB line is either).

My issue is why does Weal have to replace Umberger as the "12th forward"? Is that not resigning the PEB line to the third? The goal should be replacing Umberger with an actual middle six player so as to boost that line and knock down the 4th...to the 4th. The real 12th forwards on this team should be VDV and White.
- Mononoke

Absolutely -- harder to do anymore, but ideally you find two middle-six guys who push VDV and White down

It's just so damn hard to acquire anyone anymore. Everything is so overpriced or overvalued -- once upon a time, you could flip a second for a legit third-liner, and both sides would be happy

Now, people lose their poop over trading a pick who has a 20 percent chance or less of playing in the NHL, or the team flipping the roster player overvalues the asset to the degree where you can't close a deal at all

I can understand all the reasons Bill mentioned for the continued use of Umberger. But if you are 29th in a 30 team league in scoring, maybe you need a so called 12th forward to chip in something.

Umberger, while not a liability most nights, brings nothing offensively. He's had 2 assists since October 31st. The last time he scored a goal was 362 days ago. He's not used much on special teams, he's not a shut down forward & he's not really bringing anything to the table.

If he could even help on the PK, where even mainstays like Bellemare & VandeVelde have been barely adequate & others used, such as White, have been downright bad. You need more than an absolute stiff & that's what Umberger has brought. Jack poop.
- Jsaquella

Umberger is a liability though

Gagner took Coots's spot at practice. Again.

Gagner took Coots's spot at practice. Again.




- Mononoke

If Coots misses more than another game or 2, chances of playoffs go from slim to none. You just can't win consistently in this league with only one quality center