John Jaeckel: The Deal With McNeill

First!
The other interesting part of the discussion is that 2010 draft itself.

Go take a look at it and you will see the disparity between the concensus scouts opinions throughout the first two rounds.

http://www.draftsite.com/nhl/draft-history/2011/

Some draft years get clouded by the great junior performances many of the class displayed, so high hopes were there, for
Ryan Nugent Hopkins as a quick developing offense generator the likes of Kane.
Ryan Strome, etc.

Look at the top ten and you probably say think the scouts saw most as locks except Mark Scheifele, who was a high poetntial offensive centre who team didn't want to discuss because they wanted him to slip into their laps.
After that thick two tiers, the next two third of the first round saw teams trying to pigeon hole a developing scorer, a physical forward, and rushing offense man, etc.
Take a good look at the prospects and you will see many many guys who have just started playing regular.
You can go all the way to the early pick in the 3rd round and see at slot 67 Winnipeg taking Dave Lowry's son, Adam, a "centre." (Could you predict he would grow THAT much?)
Brandon Saad in the second was all we discuss here.
and we can go backwards:
Vince Trocheck,
Nikita Kucherov,
Wings & Leaf's defense prospect Ryan Sproul, Xavier Ouellet, and Scott Harrington,
Duck's William Karlsson,
Carolina's Victor Rask,
Blues Dmitri Jaskin,
Bruin's Alexander Khokhlachev,
Ducks goaler Gibson,
Columbus Boone Jenner,
Adam Clendening,
Wings Jurco,
Islanders giant defender hopeful Mayfield,
Blues Ty Rattie,
Ducks Rakell,
Canucks Nik Jensen,
Tampa's Vladislav Namestnikov,
Hawk's Danault,
Leaf's Stuart Percy,
Ottawa's average footed sniper in development Matt Puempel,
the still figuring it out with the bruins Joe Morrow,
Arizona's Connor Murphy,
Oiler's Oscar Klefbom,

the above ALL PICKED AFTER McNeill

and before McNeill
Habs still figuring the NHL dee out Nathan Beaulieu,
now Jet's Joel Armia,
Rangers JT Miller,
Dallas prospect Jamie Oleksiak,
Two guys that mayreached their high water marks in progress any more in
Flame's Sven Bartschi and Carolina's diminutive offense men Ryan Murphy...

I guess I was caught up in the "the hawks need a big centre who can become their second line guy" argument that pervaded this site for years.

As a junior McNeill had the chararcteristics leadership and physicality to easily project him as a future NHLer. (remember when he declared at the draft he was gonna try to make the Hawk roster THAT Fall?)

I think the NHL just got quicker.
His feet were never more that North South straight line and he always needed to get a windup and get going to be dominant in junior for the most part.
The NHL puck handling is quicker.

But I would think McNeill also must be doubting himself, and that he will need to start scoring and contributing as a more dominant AHL player to get out from under his flat line.
No team is going to trade fro him and make him a NHLer based on performances.

Look at all those names above.

Teams went looking for speciifics and some had the selections work hard and show major improvement.
Others have worked hard and have yet to get there.

It is difficult to see that in 2010, and the "Saad in the second rd. success" is the best example.

The scouts on teams see all there is about these juniors but they are not ready, and far from ready.
You can argue maybe a half dozen in this class are REALLY close to rounded out as pros, and have reached their highest expectation levels.

So for McNeill and many mnay others they have to keep working...

   


I know this off-topic,
I just wanted to say thank you to a very special group of Americans-the brave men and women of our armed forces who have made the selfless and courageous decision to stand up to protect our country, our families, our rights, and freedoms. We owe each veteran a debt of gratitude and everlasting recognition for paying the ultimate sacrifice.

Semper Fi......

Sounds like perfect trade bait to me! Use some of that 1st round draft pedigree and AHL success to get the best value out of him as a trade chip.

   


I know this off-topic,
I just wanted to say thank you to a very special group of Americans-the brave men and women of our armed forces who have made the selfless and courageous decision to stand up to protect our country, our families, our rights, and freedoms. We owe each veteran a debt of gratitude and everlasting recognition for paying the ultimate sacrifice.

Semper Fi......
- BGKarras

+1 Well said.

Nice write up, JJ. I've always wondered about McNeil. I just assumed he was a casualty of the Hawks somewhat infamous minor league system: sporadic call ups and lack of reps for the young guys to get comfortable and catch a groove at the NHL level.

I think guys like Hartman, Hinostroza, Dano, etc. get called up over a McNeil because of their willingness to be a little more physical and play with an edge. Hartman especially. The Hawks are lacking in that respect of the game. They have an abundance of finesse, guys with hands and sharp shooters. They're low on those guys that can provide a spark through physical play.

Has your Hogs eyes and ears provided any insight into McNeil's compete level? Only reason I ask is because when I watch the guys they call up, they seem to be really hungry. I wonder if McNeil's drive could be a factor. Not sure, but maybe that's an aspect as well.

I know this off-topic,
I just wanted to say thank you to a very special group of Americans-the brave men and women of our armed forces who have made the selfless and courageous decision to stand up to protect our country, our families, our rights, and freedoms. We owe each veteran a debt of gratitude and everlasting recognition for paying the ultimate sacrifice.

Semper Fi......

Speaking as a post Nam vet it's nice to see the change in the public's view of us. From being pond scum baby killers to be respected..

I think he stands i the same situation than Tinordi in Mtl.

Maybe a swap would be benefic for both of them.

Good write up JJ. It's interesting because he seemed to be a 2/3rd line center coming out of the draft. I haven't watched McNeill except for a few preseason games, but he has all the physical tools. Maybe if he can learn a more gritty game he can be a decent third liner. Thanks to all veterans for your sacrifice.

Speaking as a post Nam vet it's nice to see the change in the public's view of us. From being pond scum baby killers to be respected..
- Beaver-Warrior

Thank you Sir for your service. How they treated Vietnam vets was wrong and disrespectful sorry that you had to go through that. Hey man you will always have my respect for what you did.

Nice write up, JJ. I've always wondered about McNeil. I just assumed he was a casualty of the Hawks somewhat infamous minor league system: sporadic call ups and lack of reps for the young guys to get comfortable and catch a groove at the NHL level.

I think guys like Hartman, Hinostroza, Dano, etc. get called up over a McNeil because of their willingness to be a little more physical and play with an edge. Hartman especially. The Hawks are lacking in that respect of the game. They have an abundance of finesse, guys with hands and sharp shooters. They're low on those guys that can provide a spark through physical play.

Has your Hogs eyes and ears provided any insight into McNeil's compete level? Only reason I ask is because when I watch the guys they call up, they seem to be really hungry. I wonder if McNeil's drive could be a factor. Not sure, but maybe that's an aspect as well.
- Hank3Henshaw

I have only watched McNeil 3-4 times over the past few years (so correct me if I'm wrong Ice Hogs fans) but I think foot speed/quickness is the biggest reason he hasn't made the leap. Nice hands, big frame and strength but he is not very quick, and the speed difference from the AHL to NHL is quite large.

Great write up JJ and I would also like to echo the thanks to the veterans.

Having seen little of McNeill I can only say maybe he just needs more time. Some guys may need a little longer to develop. Maybe a change of scenery will help jump start his career?

On another note, how about Morin? I see he has 6 points in 11 games. Is he playing a different role or is he another prospect that had promise but just didn't get passed the fringe NHLer hump?

JJ, this is why you are a writer. Great story and insight. Kudos.

To Beav and others, thank you gentlemen for your service. God Bless!

I think he stands i the same situation than Tinordi in Mtl.

Maybe a swap would be benefit for both of them.
- soad_live

Based on position, I don't think centre McNeill gets you the giant defenseman...

I was thinking about this last night, and kind of good timing with JJ's blog this morning.

If the Hawks are looking for a Defenseman with a little more seasoning (even though I think Gust and Sved are going to be the answers, they just need more reps to develop) what about this package:

Bickell and McNeil to Calgary for Kris Russell.

I love Russell's game. Shot blocking machine and tremendously respected in the locker room for it.

Observations ...

McNeill should be trade bait if any other team finds value in a guy like him in his last year of his entry level deal. He has some skills - they are not top end at all - and as JJ suggested he still plays too much on the perimeter and doesn't physically engage enough despite his build.

On Matt Carey beating McNeill to the NHL ... technically true but somewhat misleading. Carey's contract had him in the NHL for a few games which is what got him signed (and the first year burned off his deal, similar to Michael Paliotta and Kyle Baun). Carey was scratched several times in Rockford last year and when his two year deal expired was not offered a new one. He's playing in Iowa on an AHL deal now.

And yes, McNeill has been nothing special in Rockford this year, but neither have many of the other forwards.

Nice write up, JJ. I've always wondered about McNeil. I just assumed he was a casualty of the Hawks somewhat infamous minor league system: sporadic call ups and lack of reps for the young guys to get comfortable and catch a groove at the NHL level.

I think guys like Hartman, Hinostroza, Dano, etc. get called up over a McNeil because of their willingness to be a little more physical and play with an edge. Hartman especially. The Hawks are lacking in that respect of the game. They have an abundance of finesse, guys with hands and sharp shooters. They're low on those guys that can provide a spark through physical play.

Has your Hogs eyes and ears provided any insight into McNeil's compete level? Only reason I ask is because when I watch the guys they call up, they seem to be really hungry. I wonder if McNeil's drive could be a factor. Not sure, but maybe that's an aspect as well.
- Hank3Henshaw

I don't believe that it's so much about McNeill's compete level. Granted, it factors in to why he hasn't gotten a sniff, but in my opinion it isn't the issue at the forefront. Honestly, he gives it his all when he's on the ice, and is a responsible two-way player. He's in his third season of killing penalties in Rockford and lead the team in scoring last season without much notice. In addition, he's a selfless player with a team first attitude. He doesn't get tied up in petty dramatic player bullpoop. He's not a whiner by any means.

However, physical play can be an issue. It's been brought up before by other posters. I've seen enough of McNeill to where he can bring a physical game. However, it's been pointed out (and rightfully so) that it comes and goes in spurts. That could show inconsistencies in that regard, or even relate to the question of compete level. But you also have to consider the line McNeill has been on the last two seasons - with Ross and Danault. Both players bring a physical game and love to play up in front of the net in the attack zone. So that's relegated McNeill to playing the role of sniper on that line - which could provide an explanation into why he was the Hogs' leading scorer last season, and why there hasn't been a lot of McNeill throwing his weight around on the ice. It may have to do with what Dent and the organization are asking him to do.

McNeill had a hot streak to begin last season, but fell to a leg/knee injury in mid-November. Right around the time of the Circus Trip, and when Danault received his call up. One could assume that if McNeill was healthy at that time, he may have received that call over Danault at that time. Once back from injury, it took McNeill a good length of time to find his rhythm again. That could be because of the injury itself, or it may highlight a determination issue. Possibly even both.

Of significance, and more of the issue McNeill is facing is the glut of forwards currently in the system at the pro level. Beyond the additions of Dano, Teravainen, Panarin and Tikhanov who were earmarked to be with the big club from the start there are other prospects to consider. One would be Baun, who fits the mold of a power forward at wing who also skates faster than McNeill. Then there is Hartman and Ross, who bring physical play on the wing that also have good wheels themselves. In addition to those two are Kero and Hinostroza, who both have great wheels. Perhaps this shows a trend - that the Hawks may be more interested in adding guys who bring a level of speed to blend with the puck possession game?

Beyond that, McNeill has started the season playing center. That's after spending his last full season in Prince Albert and the past two seasons in Rockford primarily playing on the wing. McNeill playing center directly relates to the loss of Danault. However, it may be more than just filling a slot in the line-up. There is a possibility that the hip injury to Danault might not be the same player when he returns from IR. Then again, he may be fine. Perhaps the organization may be concerned with this - especially when Danault has been groomed by the organization to fit the mold of a Bolland/Kruger type of player. McNeill is an average skater who can bring physical play, can hold his own in the face-off circle and then some, and is responsible in his own end. Maybe that's the organization's plan for him now - to see if he can bring enough effectiveness in a role of a defensive/shutdown center. Rasmussen could be viewed as a similar type of player at center. However, I believe that McNeill has an edge on him in his abilities on the offensive side of things. Otherwise, the two players are fairly similar.

With the glut at forward in the minors, you can go full circle back to the issue of competitiveness. Is McNeill doing enough to stand out from the rest of the pack? It's a fair argument. However, it may just come down to that he just doesn't fit what the Hawks are looking for at this point, and the focus has been put on other prospects currently in the system that better fit the needs of the parent club.

Nice article JJ. Have there been any trade rumors or talks that happened at the recent GM meeting that you know about?

Last year from Nov 15th to Dec 16th the Hawks went 14-3

What will he next 30 days bring?

Thanks JJ. McNeill has always interested me because the Hawks had been so high on him but he has never cracked the line up.

Bickell and McNeil to Calgary for Kris Russell.

I love Russell's game. Shot blocking machine and tremendously respected in the locker room for it.

I'd do that trade 8 days a week. One of the league's best puck sponges. He could take a few bruises off of #4.

Huh????

NHLBlackhawks: #Blackhawks recall forward Brandon Mashinter from the @goicehogs.

I'd do that trade 8 days a week. One of the league's best puck sponges. He could take a few bruises off of #4.
- ItHossaGood

I can't see the Flames doing that trade. They would likely be able to do better at the deadline and get to use his services in the meanwhile.

As a side note, thank you today and every day for those of you who have served your country.

I was thinking about this last night, and kind of good timing with JJ's blog this morning.

If the Hawks are looking for a Defenseman with a little more seasoning (even though I think Gust and Sved are going to be the answers, they just need more reps to develop) what about this package:

Bickell and McNeil to Calgary for Kris Russell.

I love Russell's game. Shot blocking machine and tremendously respected in the locker room for it.
- Hank3Henshaw

Russell has, reportedly, been atrocious so far this year. Buy low!!

Huh????

NHLBlackhawks: #Blackhawks recall forward Brandon Mashinter from the @goicehogs.
- DarthKane