Ryan Wilson: Penguins Have A Few Days To Figure Out Better Line Combos and Defense Pairs Penguins Have A Few Days To Figure Out Better Line Combos and Defense Pairs

Now that the winning streak is over, the Pens coaching staff can stop pretending the lineup is alright. Anyone can see the top lines of Crosby's and Letang's units are sucking out there and it needs to be fixed. Malkin is looking good with his line mates at least.

Hornqvist is a 7th round pick with 7th round talent

We got hosed on the Neal Trade

Any thoughts on flipping Hornqvist to the left side? It's not like he plays much of a passing game on the rush, and once in the zone, he's at the net anyway.

That would allow Bennett or even Sprong a shot on the right side of that line.

Hornqvist is a 7th round pick with 7th round talent

We got hosed on the Neal Trade
- TheGame316

Only 5 other players taken in that draft have more career goals than Hornqvist. 7th round talent my ass.

They laid an absolute egg last night. Not one player stood out as doing well. The passing out of the zone and failed attempts to get it out of the zone were too numerous to mention. And MAF had an off night so their bailout was missing.

I decided no wine tonight as I have been falling asleep in these late games. It figures I would be sober for this one.

Any thoughts on flipping Hornqvist to the left side? It's not like he plays much of a passing game on the rush, and once in the zone, he's at the net anyway.

That would allow Bennett or even Sprong a shot on the right side of that line.
- rival22

Feel like that would have been looked into at a practice by now if they wanted to do that.

Feel like that would have been looked into at a practice by now if they wanted to do that.
- Guile

Agreed. Hornqvist spends a lot of time battling in the boards and playing the weak side there is usually uncomfortable for players.

Through 14 games and 657mins of 5v5 hockey, the Pens have scored 20 G and given up 17 against. Smoothing for 60mins, GF/GA are 1.83 and 1.55. The team CF% is 48%, while EVSV% is 94.64. Individually, however the story gets more concerning. Keep in mind, the majority of the game happens to be played 5v5. Certain players seem to be performing 5v5, while others are severely underachieving. We’ll start w/ the positives first.

The pairing of #8 and #12 are getting 5v5 mins against slightly higher QoC and more defensive zone starts. In terms of usage, it appears they’re emerging as shut-down type pairing. #8 has GF/GA of 4/2 and #12 is 7/3. The #3 and #4 combo are receiving sheltered minutes (less QoC and OZ starts%). #4 has GF/GA of 11/5 and #3 is 13/4. IN fact, these guys lead the team in +/- measurement.

Now for the BAD. Different story though for Pens superstars. #58, #87, along with #28 and #72 stink. #58 GF/GA is 3/11; #28 GF/GA is 2/9; #87 GF/GA is 4/8; #72 is 5/8. Remember, 17 5v5 GA’s. Do the math!! To make it somewhat worse of a story, these guys receive greater OZ% starts. The past six games, each of the players have been minuses. NOT GOOD ENOUGH.

Stats/ eye test, #8 (and maybe #12) have been over-achieving - #3 and #4, as well. They seem to have been placed in game situations that help them achieve positive outcomes. Good utilization. If anyone on this board is okay with the numbers and performance by 66.6% of the top line + top pairing, then you’ve had far too much kool-aid. Unless this trend is rectified, this team isn’t going anywhere. Your so called best players, cannot be on the negative side of the equation. They need to contribute and do so during all game situations.

But keep on the #4 sucks narrative! There are more severe underlying flaws in how this team is playing that should be more concerning to fans than #4. Ironically, #4 sucks (all the time) although he’s been put in a position to contribute, or at least marginalize his effect against. When anyone flashes a light on how bad the stars have been, its because of mis-use/ bad utilization. Maybe they're not that good anymore. I'm not endorsing #4 - my point is that the top players are scapegoated from criticism, when they, based upon their roles, deserve the most of it. Where are the results?

*numbers from behindthenet.ca and puckayltics (which happen to be different)

If anyone on this board is okay with the numbers and performance by 66.6% of the top line + top pairing, then you’ve had far too much kool-aid. Unless this trend is rectified, this team isn’t going anywhere. Your so called best players, cannot be on the negative side of the equation. They need to contribute and do so during all game situations.
- out_of_market

That's all it comes down to. The reason the team is largely getting outplayed is because the players they are counting on the most are underperforming. I don't know if it is the linemates, system, players, or a combination of all three. But either way, the team has zero chance if that trend doesn't reverse.

Through 14 games and 657mins of 5v5 hockey, the Pens have scored 20 G and given up 17 against. Smoothing for 60mins, GF/GA are 1.83 and 1.55. The team CF% is 48%, while EVSV% is 94.64. Individually, however the story gets more concerning. Keep in mind, the majority of the game happens to be played 5v5. Certain players seem to be performing 5v5, while others are severely underachieving. We’ll start w/ the positives first.

The pairing of #8 and #12 are getting 5v5 mins against slightly higher QoC and more defensive zone starts. In terms of usage, it appears they’re emerging as shut-down type pairing. #8 has GF/GA of 4/2 and #12 is 7/3. The #3 and #4 combo are receiving sheltered minutes (less QoC and OZ starts%). #4 has GF/GA of 11/5 and #3 is 13/4. IN fact, these guys lead the team in +/- measurement.

Now for the BAD. Different story though for Pens superstars. #58, #87, along with #28 and #72 stink. #58 GF/GA is 3/11; #28 GF/GA is 2/9; #87 GF/GA is 4/8; #72 is 5/8. Remember, 17 5v5 GA’s. Do the math!! To make it somewhat worse of a story, these guys receive greater OZ% starts. The past six games, each of the players have been minuses. NOT GOOD ENOUGH.

Stats/ eye test, #8 (and maybe #12) have been over-achieving - #3 and #4, as well. They seem to have been placed in game situations that help them achieve positive outcomes. Good utilization. If anyone on this board is okay with the numbers and performance by 66.6% of the top line + top pairing, then you’ve had far too much kool-aid. Unless this trend is rectified, this team isn’t going anywhere. Your so called best players, cannot be on the negative side of the equation. They need to contribute and do so during all game situations.

But keep on the #4 sucks narrative! There are more severe underlying flaws in how this team is playing that should be more concerning to fans than #4. Ironically, #4 sucks (all the time) although he’s been put in a position to contribute, or at least marginalize his effect against. When anyone flashes a light on how bad the stars have been, its because of mis-use/ bad utilization. Maybe they're not that good anymore. I'm not endorsing #4 - my point is that the top players are scapegoated from criticism, when they, based upon their roles, deserve the most of it. Where are the results?

*numbers from behindthenet.ca and puckayltics (which happen to be different)
- out_of_market

Nice post. I just don't understand what is wrong with Sid. I don't believe he's washed up because we've seen plenty of shifts and/or games where he looks like his old self. It's the first time in his career where I've seen such crappy effort. Sometimes he's just gliding around out there.

I can only think of two things... He hates the system and therefor the coach. Or he's very frustrated with the direction of the league. There is no doubt the clutch and grab is back in full bloom. Every game I watch it's the same thing. Frankly the NHL is pure crap these days. Large stretches of games is mind numbingly boring.

Nice post. I just don't understand what is wrong with Sid. I don't believe he's washed up because we've seen plenty of shifts and/or games where he looks like his old self. It's the first time in his career where I've seen such crappy effort. Sometimes he's just gliding around out there.

I can only think of two things... He hates the system and therefor the coach. Or he's very frustrated with the direction of the league. There is no doubt the clutch and grab is back in full bloom. Every game I watch it's the same thing. Frankly the NHL is pure crap these days. Large stretches of games is mind numbingly boring.
- madmike71

Crosby is the biggest problem, but he isn't the only one playing way beneath expectations. What's wrong with Letang, Hornqvist, Maatta, and Cole? They were all good/great last year under the same system.

Crosby is the biggest problem, but he isn't the only one playing way beneath expectations. What's wrong with Letang, Hornqvist, Maatta, and Cole? They were all good/great last year under the same system.
- jfkst1

Certainly I agree. But I hold Crosby to a different level. I don't see effort being a problem with those other guys. Maybe they're not playing well, but I see numerous times a game where Crosby isn't "invested". No excuse for that and I can't believe I'm saying it about him.

I can only think of two things... He hates the system and therefor the coach. Or he's very frustrated with the direction of the league. There is no doubt the clutch and grab is back in full bloom. Every game I watch it's the same thing. Frankly the NHL is pure crap these days. Large stretches of games is mind numbingly boring.
- madmike71

Maybe #87 and #58 are dying alive. A few games back, before this road trip, I was thinking the same thing. Either they're not happy w/ defense first, or the style of game that the NHL has shifted towards. Maybe both. After this year, if #87 has 60pts, but is a Stanley Cup champion, does any of it matter? For me, its either get on board with the program, or move on. Isn't it about TEAM success anyway? Art Ross and Norris trophies mean nada.

Crosby is the biggest problem, but he isn't the only one playing way beneath expectations. What's wrong with Letang, Hornqvist, Maatta, and Cole? They were all good/great last year under the same system.
- jfkst1

5v5 mins require effort; coasting will produce detrimental results (now days).

Yes there are many issues... At the end of the day we're 9-5... Not out of it by any means.... It's a long season... Have lots of time to figure things out and shuffle the line up

Maybe #87 and #58 are dying alive. A few games back, before this road trip, I was thinking the same thing. Either they're not happy w/ defense first, or the style of game that the NHL has shifted towards. Maybe both. After this year, if #87 has 60pts, but is a Stanley Cup champion, does any of it matter? For me, its either get on board with the program, or move on. Isn't it about TEAM success anyway? Art Ross and Norris trophies mean nada.
- out_of_market

We agree. Effort isn't there from Sid. I don't think it's a problem for the others. They're just struggling.

Nice post. I just don't understand what is wrong with Sid. I don't believe he's washed up because we've seen plenty of shifts and/or games where he looks like his old self. It's the first time in his career where I've seen such crappy effort. Sometimes he's just gliding around out there.

I can only think of two things... He hates the system and therefor the coach. Or he's very frustrated with the direction of the league. There is no doubt the clutch and grab is back in full bloom. Every game I watch it's the same thing. Frankly the NHL is pure crap these days. Large stretches of games is mind numbingly boring.
- madmike71

I could speculate Sid is burned out and irritated with the league.

He's 28, has more money than he can probably figure what to do with, plays a sport where most non-Pens fans hate or have grown sick of him and for a league that tacitly supports neutering elite talent. Years ago he already achieved all the awards and accolades out there... what's left? Plus, he's dedicated most of his youth and all of his adult life to honing his skill--I've never heard much about his personal life or that he goes out and does stuff guys in their 20s do, does he even have a girlfriend? After 10 years of this, I could imagine him wishing he could do something else for a while.

If I could cash out of my career one year from now with $10M, I would do it and never look back, and move on to other hobbies and interests. Sid probably makes close to that every year between his contract and endorsements. And he's playing a sport that destroys your body and the league and even his own player's union aren't looking out for elite players like him. I feel burned out just thinking about it.

Maybe putting Sprong on his wing and putting Sid directly in a mentoring role might help with Sid's effort and focus.

Penguins are missing Pouliot. He is the only defenseman who can carry the puck.

Penguins are missing Pouliot. He is the only defenseman who can carry the puck.
- BarbarianSavage

Letang and Maatta were good to great PMDs the last several years when healthy.

Quotes aren't working....

Jf, I agree that Crosby's line isn't working. However, I do think he's turned a corner with his play.
I'd like to see a pure sniper on his wing. That said, a different type of sniper. One that has a great onetimer and can also create on his own. His success has come with Kunitz and Dupuis, who at the time we're both able to get a one timer/redirection home. Kessel isn't that guy. Hornqvuist isn't that guy.
The best fit I'm seeing right now is Sprong. He's got a tremendous release, can cycle, finds the soft spots. If he's able to hammer home shots from Cullen, just imagine what he'd be able to do with the 2-3 one time opportunities he'd get with Sid nightly.
Additionally, I'd love to see Hornqvuist traded for a younger version of Kunitz. I don't know who that player is, but someone who has the whole package but may just not excel in any one area. Horny could be that guy if he could skate. It's just not happening.

Certainly I agree. But I hold Crosby to a different level. I don't see effort being a problem with those other guys. Maybe they're not playing well, but I see numerous times a game where Crosby isn't "invested". No excuse for that and I can't believe I'm saying it about him.
- madmike71

He could also be conserving energy for back checking and the defensive zone. He's had no easy outs from his wingers. No one gets him the puck with speed (besides Fehr the first game). Crosby just looks like he's conserving because he's having to work a lot harder on his own. I put that on his linemates and coaches.

Penguins miss Paul Martin

He could carry almost and dumpster fire defenseman

He could also be conserving energy for back checking and the defensive zone. He's had no easy outs from his wingers. No one gets him the puck with speed (besides Fehr the first game). Crosby just looks like he's conserving because he's having to work a lot harder on his own. I put that on his linemates and coaches.
- cranktheradio

IMO Crosby prefers to receive the puck in transition. Whereas I think Malkin is much more comfortable coming back into the D zone and carrying the puck out himself. But then again, if Crosby is one of the best players in the world, he should be versatile enough to do that too.
Hornqvist and Crosby were very good together last year. It's inexcusable that they are incompatible now.

The Flames had speed to burn last night and the whole team just look a step behind. It was not just the superstars. Everyone sucked last night, everyone. Not just the defense either, from the goalie to the D and O they all did not or could not respond to the pressure and speed applied by Calgary. Things improved in the third when lines were changed up front but by that time it was too late.