James Tanner: How Much Do Zone Starts Matter? Zone Starts, What Are They Good For?

I actually agree with you here Tanner, I think zone starts are overblown, they are however a factor. Keep in mind that a player may have 20 shifts in a game, and only half of which are zone starts, so there's potentially a lot of hockey played, not accounted for in zone starts
As far as Grossmann is concerned, who is obviously the bloggers whipping boy before he has even played a second of hockey as a Yote, which is pretty amazing. His poor possession stats are a combination of how he is used, and his lack of puck skills

Am I to take from this Tanner, that you don't think Girardi is a good defenseman?

Under what game situations, might Girardi and McDonagh be split up in?

I actually agree with you here Tanner, I think zone starts are overblown, they are however a factor. Keep in mind that a player may have 20 shifts in a game, and only half of which are zone starts, so there's potentially a lot of hockey played, not accounted for in zone starts
As far as Grossmann is concerned, who is obviously the bloggers whipping boy before he has even played a second of hockey as a Yote, which is pretty amazing. His poor possession stats are a combination of how he is used, and his lack of puck skills

Am I to take from this Tanner, that you don't think Girardi is a good defenseman?

Under what game situations, might Girardi and McDonagh be split up in?
- MJL

Yes, Girardi sucks. Renny, Torts and now AV are apparently the dumbest coaches in the NHL for putting such an awful defender as a top pairing guy and matching him against the other teams top lines.

Yes, Girardi sucks. Renny, Torts and now AV are apparently the dumbest coaches in the NHL for putting such an awful defender as a top pairing guy and matching him against the other teams top lines.
- mdw7413

I'd love to have Girardi on my team. I was hoping the Flyers could make a run at him if he had made it to free agency. Sadly, he did not.

Yes, Girardi sucks. Renny, Torts and now AV are apparently the dumbest coaches in the NHL for putting such an awful defender as a top pairing guy and matching him against the other teams top lines.
- mdw7413

To be fair to those coaches, its only recently these ideas are gaining traction and they are old school guys.

Maybe i am too hard on the grossmann, but i hate that acquisition

To be fair to those coaches, its only recently these ideas are gaining traction and they are old school guys.

Maybe i am too hard on the grossmann, but i hate that acquisition
- James_Tanner

Analytics and other statistics shouldn't be the primary way to judge players James. Analytics should be about 10% of the equation.
You think if analytics "gain" more traction, Vigneault is suddenly going to come to the conclusion that Girardi isn't that good?

To be fair to those coaches, its only recently these ideas are gaining traction and they are old school guys.

Maybe i am too hard on the grossmann, but i hate that acquisition
- James_Tanner

Personal observation, I think you rely to much on advanced stats and not your eyes. Maybe balance it out. Granted advanced stats is the shiny new object and it does have its place, but so does actually seeing a player play.

Personal observation, I think you rely to much on advanced stats and not your eyes. Maybe balance it out. Granted advanced stats is the shiny new object and it does have its place, but so does actually seeing a player play.
- mdw7413

Blasphemy!

I'd love to have Girardi on my team. I was hoping the Flyers could make a run at him if he had made it to free agency. Sadly, he did not.
- MJL

I love the guy. Yes its obviously some Ranger bias, but watching the guy play every game for the last 9 years a lot of other teams fans don't realize how valuable this guy really is.

Blasphemy!

- MJL

I love the guy. Yes its obviously some Ranger bias, but watching the guy play every game for the last 9 years a lot of other teams fans don't realize how valuable this guy really is.
- mdw7413

Believe me, I know how valuable he is.

I love the guy. Yes its obviously some Ranger bias, but watching the guy play every game for the last 9 years a lot of other teams fans don't realize how valuable this guy really is.
- mdw7413

Girardi is strong especially when being tasked to go up against top forwards.

Believe me, I know how valuable he is.
- MJL

He's also possibly a mutant

http://www.blueshirtbante...t-dan-girardi-is-a-mutant

Girardi is strong especially when being tasked to go up against top forwards.
- MidnightMarauder

Here's your next blog James. How much does quality of competition matter?

Here's your next blog James. How much does quality of competition matter?


- jtommyt

Tell you what...let's see which team finishes highest in the standings and goes deepest in the playoffs...the Rangers with Girardi, the Oilers with Klefbom, or the Yotes with OEL

Here's your next blog James. How much does quality of competition matter?


- jtommyt

It matters a Ton. Add that with leadership and that's a blog!

Analytics and other statistics shouldn't be the primary way to judge players James. Analytics should be about 10% of the equation.
You think if analytics "gain" more traction, Vigneault is suddenly going to come to the conclusion that Girardi isn't that good?
- MJL

Analytics should be the only way to judge players. Eye tests are faulty because all humans are subject to biases. This is proven in science and doesn't apply to only hockey: it applies to everything.

It's also one of the first things you learn in any intro to Psych class.

All coaches will adapt or slowly lose their jobs to people who do them better. Vigneault has gotten favorable results even though he's deployed Girardi poorly. A professional can still make mistakes.

Here's your next blog James. How much does quality of competition matter?


- jtommyt

You don't think it matters much? So if Girardi is on the ice for all of Crosby's shifts instead of say against whatever the Penguins 4th line was last year,(Spaling, Adams,Sill?) you think his numbers would be exactly the same?

Here's your next blog James. How much does quality of competition matter?


- jtommyt

A good idea. One big discussion at a time!!

Tell you what...let's see which team finishes highest in the standings and goes deepest in the playoffs...the Rangers with Girardi, the Oilers with Klefbom, or the Yotes with OEL
- rangerdanger94

I would bet money the Oilers finish ahead of the Rangers this year. I have them missing the Playoffs!

Tell you what...let's see which team finishes highest in the standings and goes deepest in the playoffs...the Rangers with Girardi, the Oilers with Klefbom, or the Yotes with OEL
- rangerdanger94

Why would team success be a valid measure of individual aptitude?

Why would team success be a valid measure of individual aptitude?
- jtommyt

Because team success is based on individual aptitude collectively.

I would bet money the Oilers finish ahead of the Rangers this year. I have them missing the Playoffs!
- James_Tanner

Now you are just straight up trolling.

I would bet money the Oilers finish ahead of the Rangers this year. I have them missing the Playoffs!
- James_Tanner

Missing the playoffs eh? Don't forget about Lundqvist

You don't think it matters much? So if Girardi is on the ice for all of Crosby's shifts instead of say against whatever the Penguins 4th line was last year,(Spaling, Adams,Sill?) you think his numbers would be exactly the same?
- mdw7413

I don't think that at all, but it's pretty irrelevant to the conversation. If Girardi is a legitimate top pairing defenseman, he's going to face the same level of competition that every other top pairing defenseman in the league faces.

His performance can therefore be judged apples to apples with other top pairing defensemen. When you do that, it becomes obvious that Girardi under performs in comparison to his peers.