Ryan Wilson: Fixing the Roster: Replacing Brandon Sutter Via Unrestricted Free Agency Fixing the Roster: Replacing Brandon Sutter Via Unrestricted Free Agency

I remember we all Ryan included thought if we can't have staal SUTTER was the next best thing. I'm all for trading him. Hopefully his name and goal output carry a lot of weight with other gm's

If you rewatch every playoff game the pens played this season against the Rags, there's a point in every game where Sutter goes to the corner and is instantly bounced to the ground.

He kills half the plays on the offensive zone because he just can't stay up. If anyone bumps him on the corners he is down.

Again not sure trading 2 for 1 in our current state is doing good business as is suggested.

I think this off season is going to be very interesting to see what direction the brains trust take. Will the hero charts be considered or just the eye test because both failed miserably looking at Lovejob & Winnik (small sample size I know).

So where the hell is Waldo?

I wonder if the Kings buy out mike Richards if it'd be worth while to give him a one year deal and see what he can do as our 3rd line center... Thoughts?

It is if it's Sutter and Harrington. I don't think Harrington makes the roster this year so we will not be losing a roster player. If we can trade Sutter and Harrington for help and bring someone like Sutter but cheaper it's a win-win.

If we could bring anyone on the 2M range to raplace him its 1.3M we can redirect to top6 help.

Edit: this was to aussiepenguin, quote didnt work.

Again not sure trading 2 for 1 in our current state is doing good business as is suggested.

I think this off season is going to be very interesting to see what direction the brains trust take. Will the hero charts be considered or just the eye test because both failed miserably looking at Lovejob & Winnik (small sample size I know).

So where the hell is Waldo?
- Aussiepenguin

Does anyone really read the hero charts? I dont think anyone in management give a sh!t about advanced stats.

Eric Fehr has been on my wishlist since like 2009. He always plays so well against the Penguins (which is the only time I see him play) and he just seems like the epitome of a 3rd line star.

If I were the Pens management, my two objectives in the offseason are trade for TJ Oshie (sounds farfetched, but the Blues will be looking for a shake up and have had a good relationship with the Pens trade wise, it's possible) and sign Eric Fehr.

Hopefully he isn't too drawn to staying in Washington to take a pay cut.

Fehr at $2.5M for 3 years would be about the best we can do, imo. Maybe he will command a little more cash than that though.

The real question is Sutters trade value...

Sutter shows really nice finish on some goals but I swear to God I hate the way he plays. He acts like he doesn't care most games. And sometimes that stretches on for LONG periods of time. He disappeared from about December to the trade deadline this season. He gives a weak effort in puck battles, a disinterested passer, and embarrassingly weak physical effort. But he'll score highlight reel goals. If other teams like his style of play, I say send him for the best offer.

Does anyone really read the hero charts? I dont think anyone in management give a sh!t about advanced stats.
- sammy87

I wouldn't know how to if I wanted to

Does anyone really read the hero charts? I dont think anyone in management give a sh!t about advanced stats.
- sammy87

So... you assume scouts, GMs, coaches, and everyone who has a say in picking players only looks at goals, assists, and +- pretty much? They can only see so many games in person, and watch so much film within a time slot, they 100% look at season long and last few year statistics, which will include advanced stats.

Or you can be the conspiracy theorist who believes teams hired advanced stats analysts the last few years as a publicity stunt.

I'm curious if pens fans think a last first would be a fair trade for sutter? I'm not sure what we could get for him but I do believe we should move him. Perhaps a team like Buffalo (trading Islanders/St. Louis 1st) would be a fair trade? I would consider it.

Fehr at $2.5M for 3 years would be about the best we can do, imo. Maybe he will command a little more cash than that though.

The real question is Sutters trade value...
- YouMeAndDupuis9

I don't think it's as low as some would think. I'm sure there are 3 or 4 gm's/teams/front offices that see "Brandon sutter", and they see the 21 goal season, and that overshadows some of the negatives. I think a team like montreal whose biggest need is offense, say if they were looking for depth (3c), I could see a team like that maybe over valuating him if they felt a big enough need.

I'm curious if pens fans think a last first would be a fair trade for sutter? I'm not sure what we could get for him but I do believe we should move him. Perhaps a team like Buffalo (trading Islanders/St. Louis 1st) would be a fair trade? I would consider it.
- tbassett

Hell yes I would take a late 1st. Especially in this draft. Rutherford would be an idiot to not take that. Can't imagine anyone would offer more than a 2nd for Sutter though.

Conse

Today @ 10:22 AM ET

If you rewatch every playoff game the pens played this season against the Rags, there's a point in every game where Sutter goes to the corner and is instantly bounced to the ground.

He kills half the plays on the offensive zone because he just can't stay up. If anyone bumps him on the corners he is down.

That was more like every shift. I can almost guarantee it... His shift isn't over until he falls down near the boards and loses the puck.

I see the consistent negative remarks on Sutter, but when I see the Pens come up with a better replacement 3rd center, I'll believe it. IF you think they will find someone better for cheaper, I'd be happy, but I don't see it happening anytime soon.
Analytics are nice but only a paint a small picture of the players overall game. Case in point, JR used them to justify Semin's signing in CAR. See how that worked. Not too good, plus JR is the guy who traded Despres for an older D-men.

I wonder if the Kings buy out mike Richards if it'd be worth while to give him a one year deal and see what he can do as our 3rd line center... Thoughts?
- Kunit

Interesting... I don't know if they could buy him out without crippling the cap for years on him. I'm not 100% on buyout rules, but wouldnt that make him a ~2.5mil cap hit for 10 years if bought out now?


Regardless... lets say he comes in around 1.25 to 1.5 mil. As a 3rd or 4th line center he just needs to be better than last year.

Reading up on another writer's indepth look at him.... well. Lets ignore a lot of his negatives, we know them. Here are things he did good.

PK in shots allowed and goals. 1 shot for every 2 PK minutes, and 2 goals in 38 PK minutes.
Assists (top half of the NHL with lesser linemates and not even a full season, sounds like a Penguin already)
Everything else averaged to an above average 4th liner.


So... If they buy him out, which I just don't think is feasible, too much a hit, I wouldn't be that against risking him as a 3rd/4th line center here. Last season has to be the worst of his career, I don't see how someone can fall any further after being well above that mark their whole career.


EDIT: Found his buyout implications for LA...

2015-16: $1.217 million 2020-21: $1.467 million
2016-17: $1.717 million 2021-22: $1.467 million
2017-18: $2.717 million 2022-23: $1.467 million
2018-19: $4.217 million 2023-24: $1.467 million
2019-20: $4.217 million 2024-25: $1.467 million

Total - 20.17 million over 10 years.

Good points, but I still endorse Soderberg as the best option for the Penguins. He is the best player on this list and is the only one I would really trust with spot 2C duties when Sid or Geno miss a few games. He may not be used in a shutdown roll, but I believe he has the skill set (definitely the size and the physicality even though he doesn't quite use his body to its fullest potential) to succeed in that roll just as well as Santorelli or Fehr if not more so. Despite Bs fans saying otherwise, no body really believes his cap hit's gonna be more than 4 mil. Maybe 3.8 is an overpayment for the Swede. but I'd rather overpay a bit for what I'm getting in Soderberg than pay Flat Stanley 3.3 mil let alone what he's gonna get after this year.

So I'm thinking step one is resign Winnik to cheap. He had a bad playoffs but was good for us before then and he doesn't have a blaring history of under performance like that. After that's done, we can trade Sutter comfortably at the draft because between Winnik and Sundqvist we should have the bottom six C depth to move on from him without worrying about screwing ourselves over by missing out on Soderberg and having to go after a lesser option like Fehr and Santorelli. In fact, Fehr wouldn't be bad at all. I've never really thought about going after him, but he'd be a nice 3C for us.

I see the consistent negative remarks on Sutter, but when I see the Pens come up with a better replacement 3rd center, I'll believe it. IF you think they will find someone better for cheaper, I'd be happy, but I don't see it happening anytime soon.
Analytics are nice but only a paint a small picture of the players overall game. Case in point, JR used them to justify Semin's signing in CAR. See how that worked. Not too good, plus JR is the guy who traded Despres for an older D-men.
- CappyJr.

Rutherford has said he doesn't use analytics as the primary method for personnel decisions. Only NHL GM that is on record for using them exclusively is Bowman. Though TB looks like another team that is pretty much making analytics based decisions.

I see the consistent negative remarks on Sutter, but when I see the Pens come up with a better replacement 3rd center, I'll believe it. IF you think they will find someone better for cheaper, I'd be happy, but I don't see it happening anytime soon.
Analytics are nice but only a paint a small picture of the players overall game. Case in point, JR used them to justify Semin's signing in CAR. See how that worked. Not too good, plus JR is the guy who traded Despres for an older D-men.
- CappyJr.

Analytics aren't the end all beat all way to paint a player... but I think they have more weight on player(s) that a team is on the fence about.

I'm for trading Sutter, no because I think any of the scrap heap RW thinks would be an upgrade will be, but because RW was bang on when he said Sutter's deal is done this season and probably will want a sizable raise, which we can't afford. So deal him now for an assets moving forward, try and plug a UFA or Nick Spaling in there for now and hopefully a guy like Sundqvist can take the spot in 2-3 years.

Off the 3C topic, what's Radulov's status? Does Nashville still own his rights or did that little playoff stint a couple years ago relinquish them? I know he's got a bad rep, but there's a talented guy who would be worth taking a chance on (more so than Semin) if he'd take a prove it contact... Something 2-3 years for about 4 million per.

I see the consistent negative remarks on Sutter, but when I see the Pens come up with a better replacement 3rd center, I'll believe it. IF you think they will find someone better for cheaper, I'd be happy, but I don't see it happening anytime soon.
Analytics are nice but only a paint a small picture of the players overall game. Case in point, JR used them to justify Semin's signing in CAR. See how that worked. Not too good, plus JR is the guy who traded Despres for an older D-men.
- CappyJr.

You don't need analytics to figure out that Sutter is a poser, they just prove the point. He can't play on the boards, which is a huge must for Centers, especially a bottom 6 one, he's not nearly as good as advertised defensively because he's not physical at all and can't wear down opposing players like a shutdown 3C should, and he can't do squat poop except score goals. That sounds like a compliment at first but its really not. Watch our third line play. It does nothing unless Sutter gets a shot from the right circle and scores. Don't try to blame that on his line mates like everyone's favorite whipping boy Beau Bennett. This has been a problem since he inherited Jordi's old line mates in TK and Matt Cooke. Sutter just flat out can't facilitate offense well, so the result is a dysfunctional 3rd line. It's not hard to find a center that can at least manage a third line, let alone be slightly better in a shutdown roll. Hell, Winnik can do it and he's a 4C/3W. He's not ideal at all and he's better than Sutter!

I'm for trading Sutter, no because I think any of the scrap heap RW thinks would be an upgrade will be, but because RW was bang on when he said Sutter's deal is done this season and probably will want a sizable raise, which we can't afford. So deal him now for an assets moving forward, try and plug a UFA or Nick Spaling in there for now and hopefully a guy like Sundqvist can take the spot in 2-3 years.

Off the 3C topic, what's Radulov's status? Does Nashville still own his rights or did that little playoff stint a couple years ago relinquish them? I know he's got a bad rep, but there's a talented guy who would be worth taking a chance on (more so than Semin) if he'd take a prove it contact... Something 2-3 years for about 4 million per.
- Willaged

Radulov has another year on his KHL contract and I think he would be a UFA if he wanted to come back to the NHL. Doubt he wants to though. He makes the equivalent of like $9m/yr in the KHL and pays lower taxes than he would with an American team (and much lower than with a Canadian team).

Radulov has another year on his KHL contract and I think he would be a UFA if he wanted to come back to the NHL. Doubt he wants to though. He makes the equivalent of like $9m/yr in the KHL and pays lower taxes than he would with an American team (and much lower than with a Canadian team).
- jfkst1

BUT THE RUBLE IS FALLING! GOD SAVE US THE RUBLE IS FALLING! ALL RUSSIANS MUST COME TO NORTH AMERICA BEFORE THEY DIE OF STARVATION!!!!