Ed Stein: Counterpoint: NHL Expansion is a Good Idea Coyotes blogger James Tanner wrote an article explaining why he doesn't believe the NHL should expand. I take the opposite view and explain why.

Good read, your opinion wrecks tanners any day

Wow, you really glossed over the 2002 MLB "ownership swap." It wasn't a swap at all, in fact. The Montreal Expos majority owner sold the team to the commisioner's office, who then gave him a $40mil no interest loan to buy the Florida Marlins. The Marlins owner then bought the Red Sox. The only reason the deal was approved by the other MLB owners is because there were plans to contract the league by two teams (Expos and Twins). There were racketeering charges brought against major league baseball and the Expos were moved to D.C.

If you are suggesting something similar for the Panthers and the Jets, then there needs to be a third party involved and it can't be the NHL. I do not see any possible way the league can take control of a team, again, and move them after the decision they made in Phoenix.

Not sure that the ownership swap idea works in this case. The last group that would be welcomed in Quebec is a bunch of English-speaking westerners. While I agree that the Panthers have to go, a simple sale to local owners in Quebec is the only way to go.

There's a big issue with your owner swap for Quebec city: the Quebecor group that payed a part of the new arena did it to own the team too. Maybe a co-owners situation would be possible, I don't know.

And for the language issue in the comment above, I believe it would only be a minority that would mind english speaking owners, Quebec ain't what it was in the 80's, the new 30-40 demographics are mostly bilinguals who aren't separatists.

There's a big issue with your owner swap for Quebec city: the Quebecor group that payed a part of the new arena did it to own the team too. Maybe a co-owners situation would be possible, I don't know.

And for the language issue in the comment above, I believe it would only be a minority that would mind english speaking owners, Quebec ain't what it was in the 80's, the new 30-40 demographics are mostly bilinguals who aren't separatists.
- capouel

Great points!
Some topics, and beliefs today, do not exist as they may have 30 years ago.

I don't agree that there wouldn't be noticeable talent dilution. There's already a serious drop-off across the league and there aren't players available to make the other teams as good. Not because all the talent is locked up with other teams, the other talent just doesn't exist. There are already a lot of players across the league who really shouldn't be playing at this level. Aside from a few teams, most 4th lines might have one players who can actually play a few solid minutes a game. The rest just sit until the opposition's 4th line is on the ice so they can skate around against some other terrible players and hopefully not get scored on or take a penalty.

I don't really see another 50 players sitting around who can be added to the league without quality going down.

Players will avoid Quebec City like the plague. The guy who looks to own the team wanted to split up the country. F-Them.

Players will avoid Quebec City like the plague. The guy who looks to own the team wanted to split up the country. F-Them.
- RogerRoeper

Players will go to where they'll get paid and where they'll be appreciated--each of which will be available in Quebec, even with Peladeau as the owner. Politics will have no impact.

Players will go to where they'll get paid and where they'll be appreciated--each of which will be available in Quebec, even with Peladeau as the owner. Politics will have no impact.
- Ovation

They will have a tough time attracting/keeping talent imo.

Players will avoid Quebec City like the plague. The guy who looks to own the team wanted to split up the country. F-Them.
- RogerRoeper

What does that have to do with anything?

anyways, there needs to be another team in the gta so the legions of people who hate the leafs and want to watch hockey locally have an option. I've never gone to the acc cuz I don't want to support mlseand leafs and there are lots of people like me who want a different team to support there. If you haven't lived in Toronto you don't know the level of hate for the team from people tired of their bullshiite.

There's a big issue with your owner swap for Quebec city: the Quebecor group that payed a part of the new arena did it to own the team too. Maybe a co-owners situation would be possible, I don't know.

And for the language issue in the comment above, I believe it would only be a minority that would mind english speaking owners, Quebec ain't what it was in the 80's, the new 30-40 demographics are mostly bilinguals who aren't separatists.
- capouel

It has nothing to do with separatism and everything to do with language. The same reason the fans in Quebec City would poop if the ownership was pure Anglophone is the same reason that keep the Canadians from getting the best possible coaches. That sure hasn't been the 80's.

It has nothing to do with separatism and everything to do with language. The same reason the fans in Quebec City would poop if the ownership was pure Anglophone is the same reason that keep the Canadians from getting the best possible coaches. That sure hasn't been the 80's.
- gumper40

I may be in the minority here but the owner I don't care but I would surely want some kind of french speaking representation at key positions (GM, coaches or players).

Maybe my desire for having a team again is clouding my vision

Just a thought, but might the current concept of 'dilution of talent' have as much to do with outrageous contracts AND salary cap combined? For every 7-10 million dollar contract, you need to find 3-4 six to nine hundred thousand dollar guys, just to fill spots. I don't study the cap (and the loopholes in it) well enough to say that conclusively, but it seems to be the case, somewhat.
As far as diluted talent, I look at-as an example- Alex Edler (undrafted beer league Swedish defenseman) and A. Burrows (sorry, unless you love Vancouver, you hate him) who was undrafted, high caliber ball hockey player. Add Rich Peverly, Dan Girardi, Zenon Kenopka to the mix... and on and on. Fluky? Perhaps. But the talent, I believe, is out there. It just takes better scouting to find it.

Seattle sounds like a great place for hockey, for more reasons than one.

Although I disagree that we should expand, I love how you put thought and brain into your article, not just a gut reaction shoveling opinion. Good read.

Move Florida to Seattle or Quebec, relocate the Yotes to the other, balance out to 10 per side, and we're all happy.


I do have to agree that if we can afford 30 teams, we can afford 32 teams. It's a 6% expansion. We handled CBJ and MIN easily enough back in the 2000s. Fan base was there, money was there


I just get sick of seeing those empty red seats in the stands of FL games. It looks depressing. Dont watch many yotes games, but c'mon, it's frigging arizona...

[quote=jackzack87]Although I disagree that we should expand, I love how you put thought and brain into your article, not just a gut reaction shoveling opinion. Good read.

Thanks

Although I disagree that we should expand, I love how you put thought and brain into your article, not just a gut reaction shoveling opinion. Good read.

Move Florida to Seattle or Quebec, relocate the Yotes to the other, balance out to 10 per side, and we're all happy.


I do have to agree that if we can afford 30 teams, we can afford 32 teams. It's a 6% expansion. We handled CBJ and MIN easily enough back in the 2000s. Fan base was there, money was there


I just get sick of seeing those empty red seats in the stands of FL games. It looks depressing. Dont watch many yotes games, but c'mon, it's frigging arizona...
- jackzack87

Those empty red seats are misleading because they are on TV. The Panthers operate at about 83% capacity. The empty seats you see on TV are a VIP section that aren't filled. The rest of the arena has people in the seats. If relocation is going to based on ticket sales alone, then Dallas has to be one the teams to move. I don't think anyone thinks they are moving.

I'm with you on everything except KC. I lived there for 5 years in the early 90s, and it's really a minor league town. The Scouts failed, and the city does not support the Royals, currently in 1st place in their MLB Division. The only teams well supported in KC are the Chiefs and U of Kansas basketball. UK campus is 45 minutes west of KC.

Rather than push the South (Houston), why not look at another winter climate in the US: Milwaukee. Milwaukee has supported the AHL for a number of years. The city is a natural rival for both the Wild (check out a UWisc vs. UMinn hockey game) and the Blackhawks. Many already existing fans in Chicago's northern suburbs will come out to see the Blackhawks, plus, those in northern Illinois can get to downtown Milwaukee faster than to the UC.

Obviously, finding ownership is the main challenge. One possibility is the family of former Blackhawk announcer Lloyd Pettit. Their name is on the Pettit Center just west of downtown, home to one of the few full size speed skating ovals in the USA.

I'm with you on everything except KC. I lived there for 5 years in the early 90s, and it's really a minor league town. The Scouts failed, and the city does not support the Royals, currently in 1st place in their MLB Division. The only teams well supported in KC are the Chiefs and U of Kansas basketball. UK campus is 45 minutes west of KC.

Rather than push the South (Houston), why not look at another winter climate in the US: Milwaukee. Milwaukee has supported the AHL for a number of years. The city is a natural rival for both the Wild (check out a UWisc vs. UMinn hockey game) and the Blackhawks. Many already existing fans in Chicago's northern suburbs will come out to see the Blackhawks, plus, those in northern Illinois can get to downtown Milwaukee faster than to the UC.

Obviously, finding ownership is the main challenge. One possibility is the family of former Blackhawk announcer Lloyd Pettit. Their name is on the Pettit Center just west of downtown, home to one of the few full size speed skating ovals in the USA.
- scottak

I thought about "Miller City" and passed on it for a few reasons. 1) Not sure if the Blackhawks could block. 2) Houston Metropolitan Statistical Area - 6.3M people, #10 media market in USA vs Milwaukee Metropolitan Statistical Area - 1.6M people, #35 media market (would be league's smallest US market).

I thought about "Miller City" and passed on it for a few reasons. 1) Not sure if the Blackhawks could block. 2) Houston Metropolitan Statistical Area - 6.3M people, #10 media market in USA vs Milwaukee Metropolitan Statistical Area - 1.6M people, #35 media market (would be league's smallest US market).
- Ed Stein

One thing to look at - in terms of new (particularly US) markets: what are national TV ratings in the various potential expansion/relocation cities - Seattle, Portland, LV, Houston, KC, Milwaukee - how much hockey interest is there in these markets currently without a dog in the hunt?

I thought about "Miller City" and passed on it for a few reasons. 1) Not sure if the Blackhawks could block. 2) Houston Metropolitan Statistical Area - 6.3M people, #10 media market in USA vs Milwaukee Metropolitan Statistical Area - 1.6M people, #35 media market (would be league's smallest US market).
- Ed Stein

Thanks Ed. From a number of perspectives, 32 is the correct number.