Michael Pachla: Is this the apex of "analytics movement?"

Love the blog bo0s. It's topics like this that were sorely lacking with our other bloggers. It's hockey deadzone time but there's always something else to discuss besides Pat Kane's house or Biznasty joining the capitals maybe.

I've always been of the opinion that analytics do not define a player, but is a tool to be used to describe certain aspects of a player. Some take it way too seriously and some ignore their existence, both sides should really reconsider their position. TM brought up a great point that basically you can't use analytics to make your team. You can, however, use them at times to tell you a certain players capabilities.

Yet again dude, great write-up.

Michael Pachla: Is this the apex of "analytics movement?"
- Michael Pachla

Not so much an apex, but a plateau. Owners and managers, league wide, are now seeing the exceptional benefits of actual data. Now they can alight their perceptions with reality. It should make for better decision making.

"I’m someone whose worked in hockey my entire life that over the past number of years has begun to develop a usefulness for analytics. It’s been a big help to us (in Saulte St. Marie) in reducing uncertainty and just gathering more information.

"You can kind of reach and track a bunch of different things that aren’t really mainstream yet and I think it all has value,” Dubas said. “It’s just a matter of … trying to find out which pieces of data can help us to eliminate uncertainty and which ones are maybe not what we thought they were.”


I find this to be the key value in analytics for hockey. I get that most people are either very against it or so for it to the point where it's nauseating but I like the value it brings in regards to eliminating un certainty.

It's not the end all be all of building a winner, but it can't hurt to gather more valuable info before making a decision.

Not so much an apex, but a plateau. Owners and managers, league wide, are now seeing the exceptional benefits of actual data. Now they can alight their perceptions with reality. It should make for better decision making.
- RynoBull

you could be right, ryno...with the "Holy Grail" attitude now subsiding, I guess we'll see where it all ends up

"I’m someone whose worked in hockey my entire life that over the past number of years has begun to develop a usefulness for analytics. It’s been a big help to us (in Saulte St. Marie) in reducing uncertainty and just gathering more information.

"You can kind of reach and track a bunch of different things that aren’t really mainstream yet and I think it all has value,” Dubas said. “It’s just a matter of … trying to find out which pieces of data can help us to eliminate uncertainty and which ones are maybe not what we thought they were.”


I find this to be the key value in analytics for hockey. I get that most people are either very against it or so for it to the point where it's nauseating but I like the value it brings in regards to eliminating un certainty.

It's not the end all be all of building a winner, but it can't hurt to gather more valuable info before making a decision.
- Sabresfan-365

If you're not tall and you know Nolan personally, you're destined to fail. These are facts.

It's not going anywhere, it will only be enhanced with things like SportsVU just around the corner.

http://deadspin.com/playe...hockey-itll-ch-1575703133

Edit: Corey Sznajder's zone entry/exit project is going to shed a lot of light on what makes or breaks a player as well.

Michael Pachla: Is this the apex of "analytics movement?"
- Michael Pachla

Great article. This site is becoming a source of real information, not just a chat room. Great work.

Useful tools. However they can also be misleading.

It's not going anywhere, it will only be enhanced with things like SportsVU just around the corner.

http://deadspin.com/playe...hockey-itll-ch-1575703133

Edit: Corey Sznajder's zone entry/exit project is going to shed a lot of light on what makes or breaks a player as well.
- Ryan_Wilson

Travis Yost wrote a really good blog a while ago (months) that used successful zone exits and zone entries as indicators of a win. The data was really compelling. And I hate stats.

Travis Yost wrote a really good blog a while ago (months) that used successful zone exits and zone entries as indicators of a win. The data was really compelling. And I hate stats.
- Der Kaiser

All the data is being mined manually right now. Once it changes over to the tracking systems like SportsVU what was Corsi/Fenwick will evolve into something else. It will continue to improve. This is the beginning, not the apex. This "science" will continue to evolve and get better.

And that bolded part applies to pretty much anything he writes, except change good with great.

Travis Yost wrote a really good blog a while ago (months) that used successful zone exits and zone entries as indicators of a win. The data was really compelling. And I hate stats.
- Der Kaiser

I didn't see that. Did It break it down to individual players or was it a team breakdown?

Killer blog B. Analytics are only what you alow them to be. They will run your franchise if you let it. I like Murrays take. Its a tool in the arsenal, a guide. Nothing more.

#fancystats have learned all they can at the amateur level, they've just been called up to the big league

http://www.extraskater.co...ayers/possession?team=buf

Interesting numbers.

McBain and Weber truly are horrible

Killer blog B. Analytics are only what you alow them to be. They will run your franchise if you let it. I like Murrays take. Its a tool in the arsenal, a guide. Nothing more.
- Buffalo-Sabres

THIS!!!!

I think the analytical side of the game has some real value, however those who take it to heart and make it their bible such as our favorite saying "I don't need to watch the games" comment that's where the problem starts.

Using only analytics to build a team is a sure way to fail

Didn't Calgary lose in the final to Tampa Bay one year? I'd say T.Bay is a non-traditional hockey market. Maybe I don't get it...

Killer blog B. Analytics are only what you alow them to be. They will run your franchise if you let it. I like Murrays take. Its a tool in the arsenal, a guide. Nothing more.
- Buffalo-Sabres

Well put. I feel like the old regime would have accepted analytics as dogma and then subsequently run us further into the ground while promising it's the wave of the future. As a fan, I'm very pleased that Murray is confident enough in himself, his system, and his staff to make the right decisions without jumping head-first into the next big trend.

It's a strange feeling being both a Buffalo AND being confident in your front office.

http://www.extraskater.com/players/possession?team=buf

Interesting numbers.

McBain and Weber truly are horrible
- sbroads24

I love how Ehrhoff played 300 more minutes than Weber and only allowed 7 more goals.

and Hoff mailed it in toward the end of the year too

I said something people actually agree with. Time to go buy a scratch off ticket.

THIS!!!!

I think the analytical side of the game has some real value, however those who take it to heart and make it their bible such as our favorite saying "I don't need to watch the games" comment that's where the problem starts.

Using only analytics to build a team is a sure way to fail
- Stripes77

I see a lot of fabricated strawman arguments that don't hold any water to be honest.

Nobody who is good at using data says these things. It is a fictitious argument.

Not everybody who uses analytics is good at it.

THIS!!!!

I think the analytical side of the game has some real value, however those who take it to heart and make it their bible such as our favorite saying "I don't need to watch the games" comment that's where the problem starts.

Using only analytics to build a team is a sure way to fail
- Stripes77

At this point it's really only fans and blogger who take extreme views on analytics. It has yet to be used by a front office (at least at the NHL level) to build a team

My problem is that it's far from an exact science. I remember there was a blog pointing out how Anton Stralman is actually better than Marc Staal because Stralman's possession #s got better away from Staal, while Staal's possession #s got worse away from Stralman. Anyone with eyes can tell Staal is a much better much more important player than Stralman.

I also believe the same could have been said about the Doughty -Muzzin pairing. Apparently (I'm not researching this right now) Muzzin's #s are better away from Doughty while Doughty's get worse away from Muzzin.......So really how important are the numbers when conclusions like that can be derived from it?

Another insightful , relevant blog . Outstanding job .

Michael Pachla: Is this the apex of "analytics movement?"
- Michael Pachla

Nice job B0os

I see a lot of fabricated strawman arguments that don't hold any water to be honest.

Nobody who is good at using data says these things. It is a fictitious argument.

Not everybody who uses analytics is good at it.
- Ryan_Wilson

That's where you are wrong. There is a local radio station here and they have someone who is very good at the data side. However he came out and said he would not trade Zemgus Girgensons for the #1 pick last year (Makinnon) and there is another host who flat out said he doesn't need to watch the games. He was discussing Tyler Myers.

Sure these are just radio guys and in no position to make changes with teams but these guys saying this just builds traction and takes away from very knowledgeable fan bases who actually watch the games and knows what to look for. Maybe not as much as a scout but I think you get my point.