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jrgray20
Columbus Blue Jackets |
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Location: OH Joined: 07.26.2014
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He was pretty freakin good in the playoffs when it really mattered. Analytics doesn't take into consideration the desire to win. JJ brings a winning mentality that outweighs analytics imo |
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Alexzanki
Columbus Blue Jackets |
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Location: Montreal, QC Joined: 06.03.2008
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He was pretty freakin good in the playoffs when it really mattered. Analytics doesn't take into consideration the desire to win. JJ brings a winning mentality that outweighs analytics imo - jrgray20
Agreed on that,even tough some nhl teams, notably the Flames, have been using advanced stats before the whole corsi -Fenwick phenomenon. To me I think the nhl is entering it's moneyball era(funny because the A's are on top right now). |
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This new "moneyball" era will cause players with hyped "advanced stats" to be overpaid in dollars and term...
thus cancelling out the effect of "moneyball"
How is "Johnson Apart" calculated?
"Apart" from what? |
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Iggysbff
Vegas Golden Knights |
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Location: Peter Chiarelli is a fking moron, Calgary, AB Joined: 07.12.2012
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OzBolts
Tampa Bay Lightning |
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Location: Halifax, NS Joined: 05.09.2013
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This new "moneyball" era will cause players with hyped "advanced stats" to be overpaid in dollars and term...
thus cancelling out the effect of "moneyball"
How is "Johnson Apart" calculated?
"Apart" from what? - RoloTahmasee
No different than "intangibles" going into the massive overpayment of players now. |
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blacksheep1
New York Rangers |
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Location: Handsome Eddy, IA Joined: 07.30.2010
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No different than "intangibles" going into the massive overpayment of players now. - OzBolts
Like Ryan Callahan? |
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Jordy8
Pittsburgh Penguins |
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Location: windsor, ON Joined: 06.21.2013
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Why is everyone better without this guy? As far as I know he is a decent skater and has a decent shot and works his ass off. At the same time no one is scared to play against him and the percentages don't lie. Everything I said above actually sounds like Im talking about Dion Phaneuf |
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jimbro83
New York Rangers |
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Location: Lets Go Rangers!, NY Joined: 12.25.2009
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Todd Cordell is like the L Ron Hubbard of Analytics |
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Allforhim12
Edmonton Oilers |
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Location: Edmonton, AB Joined: 08.26.2013
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Stats are great for a summary, but to really know a player you have to watch him play.no getting around it.you just have to watch the games. |
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Tomahawk
Ottawa Senators |
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Location: Driver's Seat: Mitch Marner bandwagon. Grab 'em by the Corsi. Joined: 02.04.2009
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Why is everyone better without this guy? As far as I know he is a decent skater and has a decent shot and works his ass off. At the same time no one is scared to play against him and the percentages don't lie. Everything I said above actually sounds like Im talking about Dion Phaneuf - Jordy8
His decision making with and without the puck is often questionable... guy was so big/strong/fast on his way up that he never had to develop NHL-level hockey sense.
Corsi is just particularly good at capturing all those times he's out of position, makes the wrong play, makes bad reads, and plays outside the system -- the off-puck stuff especially.
Stats are great for a summary, but to really know a player you have to watch him play.no getting around it.you just have to watch the games. - Allforhim12
It is possible to watch the games AND review the stats, you know. |
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Grinder47
Pittsburgh Penguins |
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Location: Somerset, PA Joined: 10.20.2013
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They are called fancy stats. "Analytics" is just the term used by fancy stat people to sound even more snooty. |
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Alexzanki
Columbus Blue Jackets |
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Location: Montreal, QC Joined: 06.03.2008
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The part youre not taking into consideration is his QOC and Zone starts. Johnson and Tyutin took the vast majority of defensive zone starts against the the highest quality of competition by a wide margin. - Iggysbff
THIS
So the argument would be that J.J and Tyutin are just not an effective top pair group but rather two good 2nd pair guys just like Wiz and Murray. |
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Peterg
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Location: Canada, NS Joined: 07.27.2007
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This new "moneyball" era will cause players with hyped "advanced stats" to be overpaid in dollars and term...
thus cancelling out the effect of "moneyball"
How is "Johnson Apart" calculated?
"Apart" from what? - RoloTahmasee
Umm, Apart from that particular player
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Iggysbff
Vegas Golden Knights |
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Location: Peter Chiarelli is a fking moron, Calgary, AB Joined: 07.12.2012
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THIS
So the argument would be that J.J and Tyutin are just not an effective top pair group but rather two good 2nd pair guys just like Wiz and Murray. - Alexzanki
If Wiz and Murray were getting the exact same assignments as JJ and Tyutin they would have horrendous corsi and the rest... |
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fancy stats are overrated |
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Todd Cordell
New Jersey Devils |
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Location: Toronto, ON Joined: 09.05.2011
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Stats are great for a summary, but to really know a player you have to watch him play.no getting around it.you just have to watch the games. - Allforhim12
Good point, never thought of that. If you check my archive for when I started writing about CBJ you certainly won't see me recapping games. Oh wait...
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All B.S to stupid to talk about to honest |
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sbroads24
Buffalo Sabres |
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Location: We are in 30th place. It's 2017 , NY Joined: 02.12.2012
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Funny story, I read the Wisniewski is elite blog and watched some of the Pens Jackets series on NHL network.
After watching Wisniewski make bad play after bad play even one on the PP(Where he is supposedly "elite") turning it over right to Sutter and let him walk in and score.... I couldn't help but think that the analytics didn't translate to what I was seeing.
I also remember quite a few people in the last few years talking about how over rated Jack Johnson was. Yet he was by far the Jackets best defensemen in that series.
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Todd Cordell
New Jersey Devils |
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Location: Toronto, ON Joined: 09.05.2011
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Funny story, I read the Wisniewski is elite blog and watched some of the Pens Jackets series on NHL network.
After watching Wisniewski make bad play after bad play even one on the PP(Where he is supposedly "elite") turning it over right to Sutter and let him walk in and score.... I couldn't help but think that the analytics didn't translate to what I was seeing.
I also remember quite a few people in the last few years talking about how over rated Jack Johnson was. Yet he was by far the Jackets best defensemen in that series. - sbroads24
He's elite at producing points on the power play. Only Shea Weber averages more points/60 minutes of 5 v 4 time since 2012. That's also regular season numbers, so the playoffs had no impact. |
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sbroads24
Buffalo Sabres |
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Location: We are in 30th place. It's 2017 , NY Joined: 02.12.2012
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He's elite at producing points on the power play. Only Shea Weber averages more points/60 minutes of 5 v 4 time since 2012. That's also regular season numbers, so the playoffs had no impact. - Todd.Cordell
I understand.
However Jack Johnson is a superior player to James Wisniewski. Yet two blogs have been posted with the narrative that it's actually the opposite. Whether that's your intention or not, it's the impression you're giving. Analytics have their place, but saying that the Blue Jackets have a "love affair" for Jack Johnson based solely on advanced stats is irresponsible. He's a good player.
Edit: I also don't think that Wiz and Johnson are leagues apart either. They are both good, but a blog about one being "elite" in any category, while then labeling the other over rated is what I disagree with |
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Alexzanki
Columbus Blue Jackets |
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Location: Montreal, QC Joined: 06.03.2008
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He's elite at producing points on the power play. Only Shea Weber averages more points/60 minutes of 5 v 4 time since 2012. That's also regular season numbers, so the playoffs had no impact. - Todd.Cordell
Don't worry Todd half the people on this site were clueless as to what you wrote. |
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Aetherial
Toronto Maple Leafs |
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Location: Has anyone discussed the standings today? Joined: 06.30.2006
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The part youre not taking into consideration is his QOC and Zone starts. Johnson and Tyutin took the vast majority of defensive zone starts against the the highest quality of competition by a wide margin. - Iggysbff
Somehow that arguement doesn't seem to apply with Phaneuf. |
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Aetherial
Toronto Maple Leafs |
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Location: Has anyone discussed the standings today? Joined: 06.30.2006
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Agreed on that,even tough some nhl teams, notably the Flames, have been using advanced stats before the whole corsi -Fenwick phenomenon. To me I think the nhl is entering it's moneyball era(funny because the A's are on top right now). - Alexzanki
Flames have been among the leaders in advanced stats use ...
interesting. |
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sbroads24
Buffalo Sabres |
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Location: We are in 30th place. It's 2017 , NY Joined: 02.12.2012
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Somehow that arguement doesn't seem to apply with Phaneuf. - Aetherial
Agreed. Or Myers for the Sabres.
Lowest Off zone start %, faced toughest comp. Yet people drool over Christian Ehrhoff's advanced numbers despite being gifted Off zone starts and weaker competition |
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