Mark Spizzirri: We will see plenty of the Red Wings across the national TV packages

Cleary was born for HNIC

Yay! Nothing like focusing in even more on a once great team continuing to slip into the mediocrity abyss...

Yay! Nothing like focusing in even more on a once great team continuing to slip into the mediocrity abyss...
- MnGump

Maybe, but then again: maybe not! They have some serious prospects coming through the pipeline.. I think the Wings' prospect pool is ranked #3. So, that kind of sucks for you. 📈

Maybe, but then again: maybe not! They have some serious prospects coming through the pipeline.. I think the Wings' prospect pool is ranked #3. So, that kind of sucks for you. 📈
- Jnutz

Not sure why that sucks for me, but what exactly are you basing that ranking on? Hope? Or a bunch of made up future statistics?

My whole point is, the Wings have been lack luster and losing it for the past several seasons now... why do they still get to be in the lime light with so many up and coming teams already standing ahead of them?

Time to shift focus to the teams doing well now! Not a team that WAS doing well several yeas ago...

ps. Don't get so defensive... all good teams eventually become bad again only to once again be good.

Not sure why that sucks for me, but what exactly are you basing that ranking on? Hope? Or a bunch of made up future statistics?

My whole point is, the Wings have been lack luster and losing it for the past several seasons now... why do they still get to be in the lime light with so many up and coming teams already standing ahead of them?

Time to shift focus to the teams doing well now! Not a team that WAS doing well several yeas ago...

ps. Don't get so defensive... all good teams eventually become bad again only to once again be good.
- MnGump

Last 3 seasons:

Detroit: 111-72-29 Playoffs: 9-15 (1 series won)

Minnesota: 104-82-26 Playoffs: 7-11 (1 series won)

I hope you don't think Minnesota is an up and coming team

Last 3 seasons:

Detroit: 111-72-29 Playoffs: 9-15 (1 series won)

Minnesota: 104-82-26 Playoffs: 7-11 (1 series won)

I hope you don't think Minnesota is an up and coming team
- Feds91Stammer

Wait now that Detroit has not had a Stanley cup in like 6 years. He's right... I guess minny has more cups since 1997 woah is me

I thought team success was measured by the amount of banners in the rafters... Do they even have rafters in Minnesota???

Is it just me or is it weird that there are so many Canadian broadcasts when the Wings aren't playing a Canadian team? Particularly on HNIC. Must have something to do with the new contract. Maybe the Wings are a secondary game that shows in Windsor or something.

Not sure why that sucks for me, but what exactly are you basing that ranking on? Hope? Or a bunch of made up future statistics?

My whole point is, the Wings have been lack luster and losing it for the past several seasons now... why do they still get to be in the lime light with so many up and coming teams already standing ahead of them?

Time to shift focus to the teams doing well now! Not a team that WAS doing well several yeas ago...

ps. Don't get so defensive... all good teams eventually become bad again only to once again be good.
- MnGump

You must really not follow hockey that much. Most have the Wings prospects ranked in the top 8 in the NHL...Wild are always in the mid 20's just so you know.

Can't be too hard on you though since you're a season ticket holder on this site and you are actually paying for info from EK

Is it just me or is it weird that there are so many Canadian broadcasts when the Wings aren't playing a Canadian team? Particularly on HNIC. Must have something to do with the new contract. Maybe the Wings are a secondary game that shows in Windsor or something.
- noffsin6

I recall a time being in Windsor and having a hard time catching red wings games without using a smart card or free to air

Is it just me or is it weird that there are so many Canadian broadcasts when the Wings aren't playing a Canadian team? Particularly on HNIC. Must have something to do with the new contract. Maybe the Wings are a secondary game that shows in Windsor or something.
- noffsin6

My guess is it has something to do with Rogers owning the rights and wanting most Canadian team games on Sportnet. Wings have a huge fan base all over so stations likely know people will still watch it in Canada...everyone likes watching Datsyuk play even if they are not fans of the Wings. Thing that sucks though is they will have to watch Cleary and Quincey too

Not sure why that sucks for me, but what exactly are you basing that ranking on? Hope? Or a bunch of made up future statistics?

My whole point is, the Wings have been lack luster and losing it for the past several seasons now... why do they still get to be in the lime light with so many up and coming teams already standing ahead of them?

Time to shift focus to the teams doing well now! Not a team that WAS doing well several yeas ago...

ps. Don't get so defensive... all good teams eventually become bad again only to once again be good.
- MnGump

It's simple, TV channels are there to make money not showcase teams nobody watches. People watch Red Wings games more than other teams, so they get on TV more than other teams.

And your prediction of the Red Wings demise is a bit premature.

There are a lot of good looking kids coming up. They made the playoffs last year despite basically having half a roster sent up from the AHL for almost half the season. One of them even had one less goal and eight fewer points than your boy Parise in 10 fewer games.

With a little luck on the injury front (I'm not sure how many teams would make the playoffs with there two best players only playing 45 games) they should be right in the thick of it. Particularly in the East.

This is a late response to the numbers dcz posted in the comments of the last blog.

1. I tend to be cautious with real-time stats (hits, giveaways, takeaways, blocked shots) because, for example, what counts as a "hit" according to the scorekeepers in one arena might not be the same as what counts as a hit in another arena.

I think over the past several years the NHL has cracked down a bit and arena scorekeepers have gotten better, but there are still some wild discrepancies. For example, the numbers would have you believe that the Maple Leafs deliver 50% more hits and takeaways and make twice as many giveaways at home as they do on the road. I think it's more likely that Toronto scorekeepers just have really liberal definitions of hits, giveaways, and takeaways.

2. One more thing on real-time stats -- even though takeaways, hits, and blocked shots are "good" results for your team, you can only record them when the other team has the puck. So if you're close to the league lead in those categories, it actually probably means your team plays most of the time without the puck, which probably means it isn't very good. The reverse is true with giveaways -- the more you have the puck, the more opportunities you have to give the puck away. Having a lot of giveaways in some ways can be a good sign, even though giveaways themselves are bad results.

That's why I'm not surprised to see, for example, the Wings delivering more hits, blocking more shots, and making fewer giveaways than elite possession teams like Los Angeles or Chicago. It isn't an indication that Detroit plays tighter defense. It's an indication that Detroit is forced to spend more time defending.

3. On point-scoring. On the one hand, yeah, Detroit just doesn't have as much scoring talent on the back end as most elite teams, so of course they aren't going to put up as many points pretty much no matter what they do.

But I also think the way Detroit chose to deploy its defenders (although perhaps necessary) had an adverse affect on the unit's ability to move the puck. Lots of teams employ an attack-minded first line defender to generate lots of offense. They put him on the ice in the offensive zone as much as possible and let him go to work.

Detroit's only consistent scoring threat from the back-end is Kronwall, but compared to the rest of the defense Kronwall was used more in a shutdown role. On defense, only DDK started a higher percentage of shifts in the defensive zone than Kronwall.

The guys who got the biggest portion of starts in the offensive zone, by far, were Lashoff and Kindl. The problem is that neither of them (especially Lashoff) are particularly good. So instead of being able to throw out an Ehrhoff or a Green (or even Kronwall) in those juicy situations to try to create offense, the Red Wings were forced to use those minutes to shelter their third pairing, taking the trade off of fewer goal scoring opportunities for fewer defensive zone blow-ups.

What I would maybe like to see this year is for sure Smith and probably Kronwall used in more of an attacking role, DDK and say Ericsson in more of a shutdown role, and whoever is left of Kindl/Quincey/young player in a mixed-use third pairing situation. I suspect that deployment might generate more offense without sacrificing too much on the defensive end compared to last year.

They Wings definitely spent way too much time in their own end last year. They were pretty bad at making outlet passes out of their own zone, and when they switched to just dumping it out they were pretty bad at that too. There were so many times the other team snagged the puck right on the blue line and took it in for a great scoring chance.

In a perfect world someone like Sproul or Marchenko will play so good in camp the Wings will be forced to put them on the roster. Then Lashoff and Kindl won't play much at all.

Probably not going to happen, but at least they should have their minutes decreased quite a bit if the Wings have any luck on the injury front.

Am I the only one that hears about the national telecasts for the Wings and thinks: "Who gives a sh*t?"

Honestly - I would be happy with zero national games for this team. (And let me clarify that by 'National' I mean NBC/NBC sports. This reply does not include HNIC). I have finally given in and now every time the Wings play nationally - I sync up Ken Kal on the radio - because the commentators for NBC - HAVE GOT TO BE THE WORST IN ANY SPORT.

Between Emrick constantly showing inflection in his voice for plays that have no merit for excitement, Pierre's constant love for Sidney Crosby and the Penguins (he will bring up Crosby or the Penns at least twice every telecast - even when they aren't a featured team), and Eddie Olczyk being a homer for Chicago on a national scale -- I can't take it anymore.

And speaking of Olczyk - am I also the only one that feels having him do color for games nationally for NBC - just doesn't seem right? He IS THE COLOR GUY FOR THE BLACKHAWKS. That would be like Mickey Redmond doing a national game when the Wings are on. ...And we all know how big of a homer Mickey is. And please don't tell me that Mickey used to do national games....I know he did - but that was years ago before there was a plethora of sports telecasters. In this day and age - there is no reason to 'settle' on a commentator that clearly has strong ties to a team.

Sorry - just had to get this off my chest. I love NBC because they appreciate the game and want to bring it back to TV on a national scale. But, being a Wings fan - when I see that they will be on - I would rather just listen to Ken Kal.

Not sure why that sucks for me, but what exactly are you basing that ranking on? Hope? Or a bunch of made up future statistics?

My whole point is, the Wings have been lack luster and losing it for the past several seasons now... why do they still get to be in the lime light with so many up and coming teams already standing ahead of them?

Time to shift focus to the teams doing well now! Not a team that WAS doing well several yeas ago...

ps. Don't get so defensive... all good teams eventually become bad again only to once again be good.
- MnGump

Bottom line- money. The Wings are an original 6 team that has fans pretty much every where. The Wings will draw more watchers than most other teams.

As for how good/bad the Wings are. Granted they aren't considered a "major powerhouse" now. Maybe this is the homer/bias and optimism in me- but how can anyone really say how good or bad this team is since the lockout??? They have had more injuries than any other team in the league since the lockout. While they have "squeaked" into the playoffs since the lockout ended-almost any other team would not have made the postseason in the first place if they had to face the magnitude of injuries that the Wings dealt with.

Am I the only one that hears about the national telecasts for the Wings and thinks: "Who gives a sh*t?"

Honestly - I would be happy with zero national games for this team. (And let me clarify that by 'National' I mean NBC/NBC sports. This reply does not include HNIC). I have finally given in and now every time the Wings play nationally - I sync up Ken Kal on the radio - because the commentators for NBC - HAVE GOT TO BE THE WORST IN ANY SPORT.

Between Emrick constantly showing inflection in his voice for plays that have no merit for excitement, Pierre's constant love for Sidney Crosby and the Penguins (he will bring up Crosby or the Penns at least twice every telecast - even when they aren't a featured team), and Eddie Olczyk being a homer for Chicago on a national scale -- I can't take it anymore.

And speaking of Olczyk - am I also the only one that feels having him do color for games nationally for NBC - just doesn't seem right? He IS THE COLOR GUY FOR THE BLACKHAWKS. That would be like Mickey Redmond doing a national game when the Wings are on. ...And we all know how big of a homer Mickey is. And please don't tell me that Mickey used to do national games....I know he did - but that was years ago before there was a plethora of sports telecasters. In this day and age - there is no reason to 'settle' on a commentator that clearly has strong ties to a team.

Sorry - just had to get this off my chest. I love NBC because they appreciate the game and want to bring it back to TV on a national scale. But, being a Wings fan - when I see that they will be on - I would rather just listen to Ken Kal.
- KillerBert44

I disagree on a large number of things here. I am VERY happy with the national broadcasts as I live in Nashville these days. Being able to catch 10-15 games a year in 1080p as compared to the normal 10p of streaming online is rather nice.

I also am a rather big fan of Doc and Eddie, they might be a little weird, but they do a damn good job and rather like Doc's excitement. Would I prefer to get back Clement and Thorne? Of course, but these guys work out just fine for me.

On Pierre, yeah.. I'm not a fan of penis-head at all. Especially when he jumps in the middle of Doc/Eddie talking to give us a nonsensical story about what the backup goalie just said to the powerplay coach. I could without him.

Not sure why that sucks for me, but what exactly are you basing that ranking on? Hope? Or a bunch of made up future statistics?

My whole point is, the Wings have been lack luster and losing it for the past several seasons now... why do they still get to be in the lime light with so many up and coming teams already standing ahead of them?

Time to shift focus to the teams doing well now! Not a team that WAS doing well several yeas ago...

ps. Don't get so defensive... all good teams eventually become bad again only to once again be good.
- MnGump

The thing is, the Wings haven't become bad yet. They may not be great, but I'd say our team is rather well rounded, one that if fully healthy and hitting the right gear in the playoffs could still pull of a cinderella run. Our scoring ability is there, our defense is about a 6.5/10, and our goaltending is decent. Are they Pittsburgh's offense, LA's defense, or Ranger's goaltending? No, but they are pretty good. Far from bad.

Will we become bad? These "made up future statistics" show quite a damn good set of prospects that will probably make this team better overall. Two B+ defensive prospects in Sproul/Ouelette, solid forwards in Mantha and Larkin, and a top five prospect goalie in Mrazek.

NBC/NHL will never shift focus onto other teams if they don't make money on a national scale. Detroit, Toronto, Pittsburgh, Boston, Chicago, and Montreal fans are spread throughout North America and these teams still compete at a decent or better level, people will tune in to those national games and buy their merchandise, just like they have for a long time. People are not going to want to watch Nashville, Minnesota, San Jose, Winnipeg, Carolina, or Florida on national TV. Most of their fans live in their team's local TV market anyway and those that don't have other options like Gamecenter, streams, sports packages to watch them.

It's simple, TV channels are there to make money not showcase teams nobody watches. People watch Red Wings games more than other teams, so they get on TV more than other teams.

And your prediction of the Red Wings demise is a bit premature.

There are a lot of good looking kids coming up. They made the playoffs last year despite basically having half a roster sent up from the AHL for almost half the season. One of them even had one less goal and eight fewer points than your boy Parise in 10 fewer games.

With a little luck on the injury front (I'm not sure how many teams would make the playoffs with there two best players only playing 45 games) they should be right in the thick of it. Particularly in the East.
- noffsin6

I should have kept reading before posting a response.

This is a late response to the numbers dcz posted in the comments of the last blog.

1. I tend to be cautious with real-time stats (hits, giveaways, takeaways, blocked shots) because, for example, what counts as a "hit" according to the scorekeepers in one arena might not be the same as what counts as a hit in another arena.

I think over the past several years the NHL has cracked down a bit and arena scorekeepers have gotten better, but there are still some wild discrepancies. For example, the numbers would have you believe that the Maple Leafs deliver 50% more hits and takeaways and make twice as many giveaways at home as they do on the road. I think it's more likely that Toronto scorekeepers just have really liberal definitions of hits, giveaways, and takeaways.

2. One more thing on real-time stats -- even though takeaways, hits, and blocked shots are "good" results for your team, you can only record them when the other team has the puck. So if you're close to the league lead in those categories, it actually probably means your team plays most of the time without the puck, which probably means it isn't very good. The reverse is true with giveaways -- the more you have the puck, the more opportunities you have to give the puck away. Having a lot of giveaways in some ways can be a good sign, even though giveaways themselves are bad results.

That's why I'm not surprised to see, for example, the Wings delivering more hits, blocking more shots, and making fewer giveaways than elite possession teams like Los Angeles or Chicago. It isn't an indication that Detroit plays tighter defense. It's an indication that Detroit is forced to spend more time defending.

3. On point-scoring. On the one hand, yeah, Detroit just doesn't have as much scoring talent on the back end as most elite teams, so of course they aren't going to put up as many points pretty much no matter what they do.

But I also think the way Detroit chose to deploy its defenders (although perhaps necessary) had an adverse affect on the unit's ability to move the puck. Lots of teams employ an attack-minded first line defender to generate lots of offense. They put him on the ice in the offensive zone as much as possible and let him go to work.

Detroit's only consistent scoring threat from the back-end is Kronwall, but compared to the rest of the defense Kronwall was used more in a shutdown role. On defense, only DDK started a higher percentage of shifts in the defensive zone than Kronwall.

The guys who got the biggest portion of starts in the offensive zone, by far, were Lashoff and Kindl. The problem is that neither of them (especially Lashoff) are particularly good. So instead of being able to throw out an Ehrhoff or a Green (or even Kronwall) in those juicy situations to try to create offense, the Red Wings were forced to use those minutes to shelter their third pairing, taking the trade off of fewer goal scoring opportunities for fewer defensive zone blow-ups.

What I would maybe like to see this year is for sure Smith and probably Kronwall used in more of an attacking role, DDK and say Ericsson in more of a shutdown role, and whoever is left of Kindl/Quincey/young player in a mixed-use third pairing situation. I suspect that deployment might generate more offense without sacrificing too much on the defensive end compared to last year.
- Sven22

I kind of had that "hits" debate on RWC with someone as hits don't tell you what kind of hit it was or how hard. Then the person said that hits were only counted when a player is separated from the puck to which I replied there is no way in hell those are the only hits that are being counted.

I remember reading something about home teams being credited with a lot more things at home compared to on the road. I haven't looked at the numbers but it wouldn't surprise me if that was still the case today.

Basic stats only tell a fraction of the story which is kind of why I said you could probably add to that with advanced stats. Although even with advanced stats added, you would have a better understanding of things but still wouldn't have the full picture so to speak. There are still things that are not covered in stats that you still need to watch the games to pick up. For example I don't think the stats show how many bad pinches Quincey made at the blue line in the offensive zone or how many times he put his partner in trouble by chasing an opposing player across the ice leaving his side of the ice open unless his partner read it and changed sides with him on the fly.

The fact that the Wings had a lot of minor penalties I think is a product of them chasing guys in their own end and having trouble getting pucks out. I also think that the goalies play a small part in that too. Both Howard and Gus are not good puck movers at all and often just shoot it around the boards to an opposing player waiting there for it because they know he always does this. They rarely make passes to their defensemen or open forwards. This is one of the reasons I would have liked to see Mrazek with the Wings. He's not a great puck handler but he is much better at doing so than Howard or Gus. Whenever he played the Wings seemed to be able to get the puck out quicker and avoid getting hit a lot from the forechecks since he was moving the puck to his guys instead of giving it away and making his players chase it around the boards.

I guess you can say that it was better to have Lashoff starting in the offensive zone more but imagine him not playing at all and being replaced by someone with some offensive upside or someone that is actually good defensively. I just think Lashoff belongs in the AHL and switching him up for Ouellet, Marchenko or Sproul would be an improvement. They all would be better at moving the puck and generating offense and likely wouldn't be that much worst defensively. Both Ouellet and Marchenko could likely take his spot killing penalties and Sproul could be used on the PP. Would also be nice to see Smith finally get some PP time instead of just killing penalties.

I kind of had that "hits" debate on RWC with someone as hits don't tell you what kind of hit it was or how hard. Then the person said that hits were only counted when a player is separated from the puck to which I replied there is no way in hell those are the only hits that are being counted.

I remember reading something about home teams being credited with a lot more things at home compared to on the road. I haven't looked at the numbers but it wouldn't surprise me if that was still the case today.

Basic stats only tell a fraction of the story which is kind of why I said you could probably add to that with advanced stats. Although even with advanced stats added, you would have a better understanding of things but still wouldn't have the full picture so to speak. There are still things that are not covered in stats that you still need to watch the games to pick up. For example I don't think the stats show how many bad pinches Quincey made at the blue line in the offensive zone or how many times he put his partner in trouble by chasing an opposing player across the ice leaving his side of the ice open unless his partner read it and changed sides with him on the fly.

The fact that the Wings had a lot of minor penalties I think is a product of them chasing guys in their own end and having trouble getting pucks out. I also think that the goalies play a small part in that too. Both Howard and Gus are not good puck movers at all and often just shoot it around the boards to an opposing player waiting there for it because they know he always does this. They rarely make passes to their defensemen or open forwards. This is one of the reasons I would have liked to see Mrazek with the Wings. He's not a great puck handler but he is much better at doing so than Howard or Gus. Whenever he played the Wings seemed to be able to get the puck out quicker and avoid getting hit a lot from the forechecks since he was moving the puck to his guys instead of giving it away and making his players chase it around the boards.

I guess you can say that it was better to have Lashoff starting in the offensive zone more but imagine him not playing at all and being replaced by someone with some offensive upside or someone that is actually good defensively. I just think Lashoff belongs in the AHL and switching him up for Ouellet, Marchenko or Sproul would be an improvement. They all would be better at moving the puck and generating offense and likely wouldn't be that much worst defensively. Both Ouellet and Marchenko could likely take his spot killing penalties and Sproul could be used on the PP. Would also be nice to see Smith finally get some PP time instead of just killing penalties.
- dcz28

Agree that the stats do not track everything, do not paint the full picture, and we can't rely on them for everything. But I guess I would say that the basic #fancystat counterargument to there being no "bad pinches" or "times hung partner out to dry" stat is that, if a player is consistently doing things that hurt his team (and also not doing enough things to help offset those problem areas), it'll show up in the numbers somewhere -- namely, a negative trend in the possession numbers and the goal differential.

Advanced statistics are not very good at telling you an individual player's strengths and weaknesses -- at least not yet. (If we get individual player tracking within the next 10-15 years that could change.) What advanced stats are better at are meta-questions like "in the aggregate, about how effective was this player overall in his role?" In time (with a large enough sample) they can tell you generally whether a player is probably good, bad, or middling, but at least as of today they are less useful at telling you how a player plays or why he's good, bad, or middling. A guy with some big flaws but also some big strengths might be tough to differentiate statistically from a guy who is pretty much average at everything, if the overall effect they have on their team's possession/scoring rates is similar.

The next frontier for advanced stats would be, at some point in the future, being able to get that full player positioning data (like they currently use in the NBA) to be able to actually map out player positioning, tendencies, etc., and track stuff like how often a guy pinches, how often he plays out of his zone, what happens when, say, the puck comes to him in corner -- how often does he successfully move it to a teammate and out, how often does he put it off the glass, how often does he turn it over, etc. Then you could start to get a handle on individual strengths and weaknesses and make it easier for data to inform tactical decisions or provide areas for player improvement.

But that kind of information is still a ways out yet, so we have to settle for macro-stats like Corsi augmented by our own fragile eyeballs.

Anyway ...

As for Lash, I suspect he actually will lose his job in camp and get sent back down to GR (he'll probably clear waivers). He was never much of a needle-mover even at the AHL level, and has not done much in two years in Detroit either. I agree that one of Ouellet, Sproul, or Marchenko is probably a better option at this point.

Agree that the stats do not track everything, do not paint the full picture, and we can't rely on them for everything. But I guess I would say that the basic #fancystat counterargument to there being no "bad pinches" or "times hung partner out to dry" stat is that, if a player is consistently doing things that hurt his team (and also not doing enough things to help offset those problem areas), it'll show up in the numbers somewhere -- namely, a negative trend in the possession numbers and the goal differential.

Advanced statistics are not very good at telling you an individual player's strengths and weaknesses -- at least not yet. (If we get individual player tracking within the next 10-15 years that could change.) What advanced stats are better at are meta-questions like "in the aggregate, about how effective was this player overall in his role?" In time (with a large enough sample) they can tell you generally whether a player is probably good, bad, or middling, but at least as of today they are less useful at telling you how a player plays or why he's good, bad, or middling. A guy with some big flaws but also some big strengths might be tough to differentiate statistically from a guy who is pretty much average at everything, if the overall effect they have on their team's possession/scoring rates is similar.

The next frontier for advanced stats would be, at some point in the future, being able to get that full player positioning data (like they currently use in the NBA) to be able to actually map out player positioning, tendencies, etc., and track stuff like how often a guy pinches, how often he plays out of his zone, what happens when, say, the puck comes to him in corner -- how often does he successfully move it to a teammate and out, how often does he put it off the glass, how often does he turn it over, etc. Then you could start to get a handle on individual strengths and weaknesses and make it easier for data to inform tactical decisions or provide areas for player improvement.

But that kind of information is still a ways out yet, so we have to settle for macro-stats like Corsi augmented by our own fragile eyeballs.

Anyway ...

As for Lash, I suspect he actually will lose his job in camp and get sent back down to GR (he'll probably clear waivers). He was never much of a needle-mover even at the AHL level, and has not done much in two years in Detroit either. I agree that one of Ouellet, Sproul, or Marchenko is probably a better option at this point.
- Sven22

I'm not sure that bad pinches and running out of position will truly show in stats. By that I mean let's say he did it 5 times per game but at most only one of those times end up costing the team...data likely won't be accurate to show his bad decisions. Also not sure it would show in possession numbers since pinches and going out of position to cover a guy he shouldn't happen when they already don't have the puck to begin with and the fact they don't have the puck might have had nothing to do with him and if he played it perfectly it still would not show in possession numbers I don't think.

Like I said before, I'm not that much into those advanced stats at this point so I might be wrong on this. Maybe in the future, like you said, they will be able to add a lot more stats that give a better understanding of everything that is going on during play. Some teams already have guys on the payroll that are into those advanced stats and pushing to make progress in making them better...somehow I'm not sure the Wings are one of those teams given how Holland and Babcock have done things lately. Both seem old school so they might think they don't need any of that stuff to do their jobs but for them I think it could be a good thing if they did...might give them a better perspective on signings and usage of players.


With Babcock I would be surprised to see Lashoff waived. For some odd reason Babcock seems to like him. Maybe not as much as Glendening, Cleary and Abdelkader but still.

Not sure why that sucks for me, but what exactly are you basing that ranking on? Hope? Or a bunch of made up future statistics?

My whole point is, the Wings have been lack luster and losing it for the past several seasons now... why do they still get to be in the lime light with so many up and coming teams already standing ahead of them?

Time to shift focus to the teams doing well now! Not a team that WAS doing well several yeas ago...

ps. Don't get so defensive... all good teams eventually become bad again only to once again be good.
- MnGump

Until we actually stop making the playoffs and aren't consistently relevant anymore, then come back and have this discussion. You guys know what that is like, right? 1992 and counting...

Wait now that Detroit has not had a Stanley cup in like 6 years. He's right... I guess minny has more cups since 1997 woah is me

I thought team success was measured by the amount of banners in the rafters... Do they even have rafters in Minnesota???
- jdd0001

Oh please not that argument... that is the only reason the Canadian teams talk like they are still relevant after decades of no Cups.

Relevant to our interests, dcz:

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=727093