Paul Stewart: The Bigger Picture of Kreider-Price Incident

looking at the big picture, it's not a matter of guys running goalies. it's a matter of guys going to net and not doing anything to avoid the goalie. no will argue that Kreider could have avoided any collision. the argument is, could he have avoided going into him the way he did? only one who truly know the answer to that is Kreider. not me, not you, not Price or any of the Canadiens. but this is becoming something of an endemic in hockey. time was when you made heavy contact with a team's star goalie, accidental or not, you paid the price. things are different today. if this was 1993 and Carey Price was Patrick Roy, Kreider would have left the ice on a stretcher. players today don't have to answer to anyone. so, for argument's sake, why would Kreider do anything but TRY to go into Price hard and dangerous and take him out? what are the consequences to him and the Rangers? nothing.

A lot of food for thought as usual.

I probably see to much forward contact with goalies to be very happy, but I also see waaay to much defencemen crosschecking, tripping, pushing etc forwards into their own goalies.....should a forward be penalised for that??
Should the d-man be suspended if the goalie gets hurrt?

I also agree with on the point on goalie size......when do you ever see a goalie make a save today...theay are getting in the way.

I almost get tears in my eyes watching old-time clips of Nhl hockey, the goalies cover 35% of the net, nowadays you hardly see the net sometimes.....Ovechkin would have scored 500 goals/ season in the late 80's.

Except that Scott Stevens would probably have killed him.

Or as it was called; Finished his checks

Paul, wouldn't removing the instigator penalty stop most of the BS that goes on in today's game? Because it is in place, it has allowed some players to be more aggressive than they should. Gone are the days when each team would dress 1 guy to make a few appearances a game, and 1 would always involve a center ice fight. But there should be nothing wrong with a guy dropping the gloves and controlling another player (we all know that the Referees are not capable of doing that). Players do not respect the game (or other players) anymore. Some one has to patrol respect. The players need to do it.

The stupid trapezoid has to go. That would be a fair trade-off for reducing the size of the crease

Paul, wouldn't removing the instigator penalty stop most of the BS that goes on in today's game? Because it is in place, it has allowed some players to be more aggressive than they should. Gone are the days when each team would dress 1 guy to make a few appearances a game, and 1 would always involve a center ice fight. But there should be nothing wrong with a guy dropping the gloves and controlling another player (we all know that the Referees are not capable of doing that). Players do not respect the game (or other players) anymore. Some one has to patrol respect. The players need to do it.
- powerenforcer

i'm not sure. let's assume there was no instigator. take Player A. he's got a dirty reputation. cheap shot artist. he takes a run at your captain from behind. Player B goes after him and starts throwing punches. Player A, in typical fashion, turtles. no instigator, but you've got a 5-minute major while the other guy potentially gets nothing. the instigator only applies when you have 2 willing combatants. most of the time, after a cheap shot, a guy is not going to willingly defend himself through a fight.

looking at the big picture, it's not a matter of guys running goalies. it's a matter of guys going to net and not doing anything to avoid the goalie. no will argue that Kreider could have avoided any collision. the argument is, could he have avoided going into him the way he did? only one who truly know the answer to that is Kreider. not me, not you, not Price or any of the Canadiens. but this is becoming something of an endemic in hockey. time was when you made heavy contact with a team's star goalie, accidental or not, you paid the price. things are different today. if this was 1993 and Carey Price was Patrick Roy, Kreider would have left the ice on a stretcher. players today don't have to answer to anyone. so, for argument's sake, why would Kreider do anything but TRY to go into Price hard and dangerous and take him out? what are the consequences to him and the Rangers? nothing.
- DoubleDown

Mehh, Prust went at Kreider in the 3rd & Kreider basically just stood there & watched Prust get more frustrated because every punch, cross check, slash he gave Kreider, didn't even effect him. He didn't drop the gloves there, nor should he have, he did nothing wrong.

And also, your last point, Kreider could get injured himself vaulting into goalies, he had just himself come back from an injury. This was an accident, case closed, very unfortunate result with Price getting injured but there was no intent for anything other than for Kreider to score a goal. He couldn't get out of the way of Price with that crazy speed he has in that close.

My problem with the play isnt that Kreider is a repeat offender with malice or intention; rather, he is a repeat offender by style of play that is not punished for its potential injury risk. He basically propels his 230lb self at full speed toward the net and if any defender gets a hand on him causing him to crash the goalie, well its not his fault. Clearly the defender interfered with him and he couldn't stop. All three instances of him taking a goalie out and in two instances causing a more serious injury, that is exactly what happened.

I liken this to the old childish move of swinging your fists in the air and telling someone "I am swinging my fists, if you get in the way its your fault." Kreider skates full tilt toward the goalie basically saying "I am skating full speed at your goalie, touch me and the consequences are your fault."

Imagine if this happened to your teams goalie. Most fans and teams would be irate. Now imagine it was Matt Cooke that just did this, everyone would call the play dirty.

My problem with the play isnt that Kreider is a repeat offender with malice or intention; rather, he is a repeat offender by style of play that is not punished for its potential injury risk. He basically propels his 230lb self at full speed toward the net and if any defender gets a hand on him causing him to crash the goalie, well its not his fault. Clearly the defender interfered with him and he couldn't stop. All three instances of him taking a goalie out and in two instances causing a more serious injury, that is exactly what happened.

I liken this to the old childish move of swinging your fists in the air and telling someone "I am swinging my fists, if you get in the way its your fault." Kreider skates full tilt toward the goalie basically saying "I am skating full speed at your goalie, touch me and the consequences are your fault."

Imagine if this happened to your teams goalie. Most fans and teams would be irate. Now imagine it was Matt Cooke that just did this, everyone would call the play dirty.
- nords21

He's skating at full speed towards the goalie to score, that's the point of the game of hockey, isn't it?

He's skating at full speed towards the goalie to score, that's the point of the game of hockey, isn't it?
- B2B76

Stole my response. Don't like it? Check him or poke it away.

My problem with the play isnt that Kreider is a repeat offender with malice or intention; rather, he is a repeat offender by style of play that is not punished for its potential injury risk. He basically propels his 230lb self at full speed toward the net and if any defender gets a hand on him causing him to crash the goalie, well its not his fault. Clearly the defender interfered with him and he couldn't stop. All three instances of him taking a goalie out and in two instances causing a more serious injury, that is exactly what happened.

I liken this to the old childish move of swinging your fists in the air and telling someone "I am swinging my fists, if you get in the way its your fault." Kreider skates full tilt toward the goalie basically saying "I am skating full speed at your goalie, touch me and the consequences are your fault."

Imagine if this happened to your teams goalie. Most fans and teams would be irate. Now imagine it was Matt Cooke that just did this, everyone would call the play dirty.
- nords21

Kreider's greatest asset is his speed. Why would he not use it to try and score?

That's like saying Lucic isn't allowed to bodycheck anyone because he might injure them or that Chara isn't allowed to use his slapshot because it could break a bone if it hits another player.

the best thing about referring to Kreider as a "repeat offender" to me is that to me that means he is a "repeat breakaway getter"

don't mess with him on his breakaways and your goalie will be fine

the best thing about referring to Kreider as a "repeat offender" to me is that to me that means he is a "repeat breakaway getter"

don't mess with him on his breakaways and your goalie will be fine
- jimbro83

Until Price was deemed done for the series, except for Prust NO ONE on Montreal said boo about it other than being accidental after Game 1. Amazing how the story changes, especially for Therrien.

He's skating at full speed towards the goalie to score, that's the point of the game of hockey, isn't it?
- B2B76

You've completely missed the point of my argument; its almost not even worth discussing. Still, let me ask you this instead; if Matt Cooke did this to Lundqvist what would you say? I can just about guarantee you would call it dirty and it would be the first time Cooke ran a goalie like Kreider has done now, for the third time. Seriously, NYR fans sound like Cooke apologists. Its not his fault, Savard had his head down...

Stole my response. Don't like it? Check him or poke it away.
- mrhattrick27

Or better yet.....play good defensive hockey! If you're between Kreider and the goalie he can't go full speed towards the net. I know that's a hard concept to accept....

You've completely missed the point of my argument; its almost not even worth discussing. Still, let me ask you this instead; if Matt Cooke did this to Lundqvist what would you say? I can just about guarantee you would call it dirty and it would be the first time Cooke ran a goalie like Kreider has done now, for the third time. Seriously, NYR fans sound like Cooke apologists. Its not his fault, Savard had his head down...
- nords21

Comparing Cooke and Kreider is rediculous. One uses his kevlar padded body armour as a weapon...the other skates hard.

Kreider's return to the lineup was a huge part of the Rangers success over the Penguins. And, a lot of that is because of his willingness to go to the tough areas. The guy deserves a ton of credit for his heart and style not ridicule because of this style.

You've completely missed the point of my argument; its almost not even worth discussing. Still, let me ask you this instead; if Matt Cooke did this to Lundqvist what would you say? I can just about guarantee you would call it dirty and it would be the first time Cooke ran a goalie like Kreider has done now, for the third time. Seriously, NYR fans sound like Cooke apologists. Its not his fault, Savard had his head down...
- nords21

Here's my question to you: if Price wasn't injured on that play, is every Canadiens fan still up in arms about it?

But to answer your question, yes if Matt Cooke, the NHL's most dirty player, ran a goalie, I'd probably think he did it on purpose. Not sure how that relates to Kreider.

Here's my question to you: if Price wasn't injured on that play, is every Canadiens fan still up in arms about it?
- RAGSareDANGERus

Of Course not, but an injury did happen. Not every fan is up in arms every time Cooke hits someone, just when it causes an injury.

Be honest with yourself. Had Subban done this to Lundqvist, exact same circumstances, what would you say? You would want him suspended and Subban has never done this before; Kreider has done this a few times now. Where do you draw the line, fifth time he injures a goalie, 10th time? He may never have it happen to him again, but at this point he plays on the borderline of great and reckless but doesnt have to pay a penalty when it become reckless.

Of Course not, but an injury did happen. Not every fan is up in arms every time Cooke hits someone, just when it causes an injury.

Be honest with yourself. Had Subban done this to Lundqvist, exact same circumstances, what would you say? You would want him suspended and Subban has never done this before; Kreider has done this a few times now. Where do you draw the line, fifth time he injures a goalie, 10th time? He may never have it happen to him again, but at this point he plays on the borderline of great and reckless but doesnt have to pay a penalty when it become reckless.
- nords21

Honestly, I probably wouldn't be creating such a fuss. I'd think Subban was going hard to net because he's a hockey player that isn't afraid to get into the dirty areas.

We need to ban Chara from slapshotting the puck! How many times has he injured players? 4 times? 5 times? More?!

If Gallagher does the same exact play to Hank, then is it because he's a dirty player? Or because that's the style he plays? Do you expect Gallagher to be neutered and change his style because of an unfortunate situation?

Show me one play where Kreider without being touched blows over a goaltender. Every single time Kreider has hit a goalie, it's because the other team's defense can't handle his speed and in desperation trips him or pushes him.

You've completely missed the point of my argument; its almost not even worth discussing. Still, let me ask you this instead; if Matt Cooke did this to Lundqvist what would you say? I can just about guarantee you would call it dirty and it would be the first time Cooke ran a goalie like Kreider has done now, for the third time. Seriously, NYR fans sound like Cooke apologists. Its not his fault, Savard had his head down...
- nords21

A. He is not dirty

B. There is no history. Just a history of being cross checked, tripped, etc. into goalies.

C. Just stop, you seem to very worked up over this.

A. He is not dirty

B. There is no history. Just a history of being cross checked, tripped, etc. into goalies.

C. Just stop, you seem to very worked up over this.
- ohmyknee

That avatar and username LOL

That avatar and username LOL
- RAGSareDANGERus

I like to think of myself as a healer.

Kreider's greatest asset is his speed. Why would he not use it to try and score?

That's like saying Lucic isn't allowed to bodycheck anyone because he might injure them or that Chara isn't allowed to use his slapshot because it could break a bone if it hits another player.
- RAGSareDANGERus

Listen up. This is way off base and you should be ashamed.

Habs will dominate your puking team.

Please leave

Kreider is dirty. We all know that.

But my Habs can overcome the dirty, dirty play of the Rag$.

King goes down tonight

Kreider is dirty. We all know that.

But my Habs can overcome the dirty, dirty play of the Rag$.

King goes down tonight
- Toady_Toast

You are a funny guy