Ben Case: Game Day DC- Panthers come to town and thoughts about Emery-Holtby fight

As a Flyers fan, i am completely embarrassed by what happened last night. It's bad enough trying to deal with the way they play the game, the brawl was too much.
Also, to have to listen to the Philly TV broadcasters talk about how Emery was standing up for his team was sickening. At my morning skate this seemed to be the straw that broke the hardcore fan's back. I can take a losing streak, but not this.
Go Leafs!

If he didn't want to fight he should of curled up and hit the ice. The fact that he stood up and kept fighting really defeats the criminal aspect of it. Nice try though
Also where the hell were holtbys teammates ? If you see your goalie getting his ass handed to him you jump in and help.

If he didn't want to fight he should of curled up and hit the ice. The fact that he stood up and kept fighting really defeats the criminal aspect of it. Nice try though
- jaumiller

Absolutely wrong.You have the right to defend yourself. Doing so does not justify the attack on your person.

Also where the hell were holtbys teammates ? If you see your goalie getting his ass handed to him you jump in and help.


They were busy getting their face broken or their asses handed to them. The Flyers, except for Simmonds couldn't even win the fights last night.

They were busy getting their face broken or their asses handed to them. The Flyers, except for Simmonds couldn't even win the fights last night.
- Nortongoalie

The Simmonds vs Wilson fight was pretty even and it didn't look like Tom was hurt at all he likely could of fought Simmonds again. Also the guy he fought was a rookie ( tough one ) but he was also taken in the first round I imagine you give him 2-3 years of getting bigger and he mops the floor with Simmonds.

The Simmonds vs Wilson fight was pretty even and it didn't look like Tom was hurt at all he likely could of fought Simmonds again. Also the guy he fought was a rookie ( tough one ) but he was also taken in the first round I imagine you give him 2-3 years of getting bigger and he mops the floor with Simmonds.
- blizzzard

Yeah, Simmonds is spindly. He is tough, but a middle weight at best.

Emery should be suspended. I'd be pissed of some goon back up tried to hurt my star #1 netminder.

It's like a goon fourth liner going after a first line player who plays over 20 minutes a night.

Go play in the ECHL Emery, you can fight all you want and you might actually stop a puck or two.

Yeah, Simmonds is spindly. He is tough, but a middle weight at best.
- Nortongoalie

I have little doubt in my mind that Wilson is the next Lucic. A lot of teams are going to be wishing they had him on there team. Hopefully he doesn't get to int fighting and becomes a 25-30 scorer on top of being a tough dude. Would hate to see him just become a goon but I get the feeling Washington likes carrying him then someone who can't play hockey.

No one likes to see what Emery did, but I don't know if he deserves a suspension. Granted, something must be done to protect players who have refused to fight..I mean, worst case scenario you have a Bertuzzi-like incident..which was the result of someone fighting someone who refused. It's just not in the rulebooks. Holtby certainly got clocked a few times as well.

As for Caps not helping him, Latta tried to come in and was told by the ref to stay out..what do you want him to do , fight the ref? The others were tied up with a Flyer, and leaving your bench is auto 10-games.Sure, some of you like to say the Caps players should have done more to protect their goalie, but it should have never happened anyway.

I am on the minority side that views fighting as a sideshow, and not some glorified "game within a game", so to me, it was all pointless. I don't dislike fighting, I just sort of grunt and say hurry up so I can watch hockey.

They were busy getting their face broken or their asses handed to them. The Flyers, except for Simmonds couldn't even win the fights last night.
- Nortongoalie

Oh stop it there were plenty of guys that could of stepped in.

Oh stop it there were plenty of guys that could of stepped in.
- jaumiller

The refs???

If he didn't want to fight he should of curled up and hit the ice. The fact that he stood up and kept fighting really defeats the criminal aspect of it. Nice try though
Also where the hell were holtbys teammates ? If you see your goalie getting his ass handed to him you jump in and help.
- jaumiller

So if someone were to start assaulting you in the streets, you would just curl up on the ground? You would not try to defend yourself? I figured a kid studying law would know better than that.

So if someone were to start assaulting you in the streets, you would just curl up on the ground? You would not try to defend yourself? I figured a kid studying law would know better than that.
- Blackstrom2

STAND YOUR GROUND!

Oh stop it there were plenty of guys that could of stepped in.
- jaumiller

Except that if you watch the sequence you'll see that the officials waved other players away and did nothing to step in themselves.

Except that if you watch the sequence you'll see that the officials waved other players away and did nothing to step in themselves.
- Michael_Stuart

This.

If you prevent other from stepping in to help thewir teammate, you have to do what you can to help them. Letting a guy on the ground keep getting hit, especially when he didn't want to fight, is nothing short of negligent on the part of the officials.

This.

If you prevent other from stepping in to help thewir teammate, you have to do what you can to help them. Letting a guy on the ground keep getting hit, especially when he didn't want to fight, is nothing short of negligent on the part of the officials.
- lumlums

Absolutely.

Although I respect your opinion I personally have to say that your comments about Ray Emery are completely opinion and non factual. What do you have to justify your opinion? His record last year was 17-1 in a non 82 game schedule season. He has a Stanley Cup Ring on his finger for his contribution to a complete team effort to prove it. You don't win the cup unless you understand and buy into the team concept. He got a job at seasons end because he was a UFA not because he was washed up, not because he was not wanted, it was because he saw an opportunity in city that had an opening.

Yes he skated the ice and took on your goaltender and it's not about if he wanted to fight or not in a 7-0 game, it's not about if it fighting belongs in the game or not either, but what you forgot to mention was that what Ray Emery did was stand up for his team. Are you going to say that if Ovie was on the ice he would not been part of it? How can you factually trash talk someone for standing up for his team? Oh no it's simply because your guy got his ass kicked last night because he did not turtle like he should have if he did not want to fight and stand up for himself, his teammates or the logo on his sweater. If I'm Ray Emery and I'm a Flyer today, i have no issues with what transpired and I know my teammates have my back regardless of the win loss record. So as you are entitled your opinion, so am I and I say that what Ray Emery did is the foundation of what a team concept is built on and that is something positive and something I would be proud to be part of.

Yes he skated the ice and took on your goaltender and it's not about if he wanted to fight or not in a 7-0 game, it's not about if it fighting belongs in the game or not either, but what you forgot to mention was that what Ray Emery did was stand up for his team. Are you going to say that if Ovie was on the ice he would not been part of it? How can you factually trash talk someone for standing up for his team? Oh no it's simply because your guy got his ass kicked last night because he did not turtle like he should have if he did not want to fight and stand up for himself, his teammates or the logo on his sweater. If I'm Ray Emery and I'm a Flyer today, i have no issues with what transpired and I know my teammates have my back regardless of the win loss record. So as you are entitled your opinion, so am I and I say that what Ray Emery did is what the foundation of a team concept is built on and that is
- TheRealDMC

That was not standing up for his team. A fight broke out, Holtby was in his crease minding his own business not out aggravating players. Emery came out of his crease and targeted holtby because he was frustrated with his teams and his own poor play. That is NOT standing up for a team, a logo, a city, whatever.

What do you think would have happened if Holtby did turtle? Emery would have jumped on him and hit him while he was down and in the back. A matter of fact, he did just that. He showed that he was out to take out anger and not fight to swing momentum. He left the crease and was committed knowing he was going to get an instigator and get tossed so he might as well hurt someone while doing it. It was reckless.

Let's take a different scenario. Volpatti and Downie. They both went in wanting to fight, that's fair. When volpatti hurt downie, downie asked to stop and volpatti obliged out of respect and knowing that he could have seriously injured Downie. What Ray Emery did would have been similar if Volpatti wouldn't have stopped and just reckless continued on despite Downie wanting to end it. To go on, it would have been like Volpatti knocking Downie down and continue to hit while he was down out of anger.

In the end, Lecavalier got injured from what Emery did and Emery got some poop PR for himself. It all works out in the end.

They were busy getting their face broken or their asses handed to them. The Flyers, except for Simmonds couldn't even win the fights last night.
- Nortongoalie

Brayden schenn just tossed the guy he fought around

That was not standing up for his team. A fight broke out, Holtby was in his crease minding his own business not out aggravating players. Emery came out of his crease and targeted holtby because he was frustrated with his teams and his own poor play. That is NOT standing up for a team, a logo, a city, whatever.

What do you think would have happened if Holtby did turtle? Emery would have jumped on him and hit him while he was down and in the back. A matter of fact, he did just that. He showed that he was out to take out anger and not fight to swing momentum. He left the crease and was committed knowing he was going to get an instigator and get tossed so he might as well hurt someone while doing it. It was reckless.

Let's take a different scenario. Volpatti and Downie. They both went in wanting to fight, that's fair. When volpatti hurt downie, downie asked to stop and volpatti obliged out of respect and knowing that he could have seriously injured Downie. What Ray Emery did would have been similar if Volpatti wouldn't have stopped and just reckless continued on despite Downie wanting to end it. To go on, it would have been like Volpatti knocking Downie down and continue to hit while he was down out of anger.

In the end, Lecavalier got injured from what Emery did and Emery got some poop PR for himself. It all works out in the end.
- alienarecoming

Lecavalier got hurt because he stood up for his team, not because of Emery. Vinny is a veteran pro, not a journeyman and a leader. He had no issue being a leader and setting precedence with the younger players. Your comment is also biased and we can agree to disagree on this for ever. Holtby fought back, bottom line, he did not turtle when he had the option to. How can you say Emery would have hit him while he was down if he did not turtle? You have no grounds to back that up. Again that is your opinion and I respect that. Watch the footage and note the officials on ice and they kept additional players away. That is where the real discussion should be directed to. They never stopped it from becoming what it is today, a social media buzz. But as you did to me, flip the tables and tell me you would not condone the same efforts from the caps if they were in the same situation, same record, same losing effort?

Lecavalier got hurt because he stood up for his team, not because of Emery. Vinny is a veteran pro, not a journeyman and a leader. He had no issue being a leader and setting precedence with the younger players. Your comment is also biased and we can agree to disagree on this for ever. Holtby fought back, bottom line, he did not turtle when he had the option to. How can you say Emery would have hit him while he was down if he did not turtle? You have no grounds to back that up. Again that is your opinion and I respect that. Watch the footage and note the officials on ice and they kept additional players away. That is where the real discussion should be directed to. They never stopped it from becoming what it is today, a social media buzz. But as you did to me, flip the tables and tell me you would not condone the same efforts from the caps if they were in the same situation, same record, same losing effort?
- TheRealDMC

If you start swinging at a guy who says he doesn't want to fight you are in the wrong. Bottom line. Saying that because Holtby didn't turtle, it was ok for Emery to basically attack him is one of the most laughable statements I've ever read on this site, and that is saying A LOT. You're essentially saying any goon in the league could just grab Giroux and kick the crap out of him for no reason, but as long Giroux doesn't turtle, no problem. What a joke.

Take your homer glasses off for a minute. Of course Emery would have jept hitting Holtby if he turtled. He hit him plenty of times when he was down on his knees, which is a huge scumbag move, but you think if Holtby just stopped throwing and stayed down Emery would have stopped acting like a maniac? Right...

You can keep your homer beliefs if you want, I don't care. You're definitely in the minority. I don't like the Caps or the Flyers. All I know is that if my backup goalie acted like a complete d bag like that I'd be begging for him to be shipped out. And if what he did is "standing up for your team" in your book I am so glad you have no control over the league.

Lecavalier got hurt because he stood up for his team, not because of Emery. Vinny is a veteran pro, not a journeyman and a leader. He had no issue being a leader and setting precedence with the younger players. Your comment is also biased and we can agree to disagree on this for ever. Holtby fought back, bottom line, he did not turtle when he had the option to. How can you say Emery would have hit him while he was down if he did not turtle? You have no grounds to back that up. Again that is your opinion and I respect that. Watch the footage and note the officials on ice and they kept additional players away. That is where the real discussion should be directed to. They never stopped it from becoming what it is today, a social media buzz. But as you did to me, flip the tables and tell me you would not condone the same efforts from the caps if they were in the same situation, same record, same losing effort?
- TheRealDMC

In every statment you say "that is your opinion," "you have no basis to say that," "you are biased," so on, so forth. Just by the by, all of those apply to you as well.

Onto the discussion itself. Vinny's fight would not have happened if emery and holtby were in a scrum in a corner. If emery stays in the crease, vinny isn't over there, vinny isn't fighting. Before you even say it, sure it may still have happened but it wouldn't have been near as likely.

Holtby fought back because he had to. Emery grabbed his jacked at started swinging. Like you say, watch the video. Read what emery said. There is no way Holtby would get his jacket taken and let Emery just swing withough trying to defend himself. He would have gotten seriously injured. If someone jumps you, you don't just stand there and not defend yourself. Simple as that.

"How can you say Emery would have hit him while he was down if he did not turtle? You have no grounds to back that up." Again, WATCH THE VIDEO. Emery did exactly that. Holtby was down and not even facing him and Emery kept swinging on what was a person in a defenseless position. You don't do that in a scrum in hockey, in boxing, on the streets, anywhere under any circumstance. He knew he was ejected regardless so he was going to do as much damage as possible. That is what happened. He would have pounced had Holtby turtled. He wasn't there to support his team or defend his players. He was there out of frustration and anger and just wanted to hurt someone. There is no other reason to leave the crease after being down by 7 goals.

"But as you did to me, flip the tables and tell me you would not condone the same efforts from the caps if they were in the same situation, same record, same losing effort?"
I have lost games by much larger of margins, I did not attack anyone. I would never condone what happened. That is basic sportsmanship. You lose with respect, you win with respect. Sure there will be trash talk, but you don't head hunt (Simmonds) or start fights with unwilling players (Emery) out of anger with your team doing poorly. The only reason you do that is because of frustration, anger, and looking for some sort of revenge in the means of injuring another player. That is dirty and disrespectful and that is exactly what happened.

If downie asked to stop and volpatti ended his career by not doing it, I would not have condoned that. If ovechkin is losing 12-0 and breaks his stick over someones head, I don't condone that. If Nuvy gets mad and blind rushes someone who doesn't want to fight out of anger, I don't condone that. Just because you believe it is okay doesn't me I would if the tables were turned.

Ben,

Everything that Emery did was covered in the rule book. End of story!!!