Brad Ratgen: BRUTAL Pre-Season Opener for Wild. It Can Only Get Better, Right? Right!?!? A look at last night's pre-season opening loss to the Columbus Blue Jackets'.

In the words of Carey Price, "Relax, chill out."

It's only PRE-SEASON.

Whats brutal about a 3-1 preseason loss?

Whats brutal about a 3-1 preseason loss?
- mighty13duck

Judging things not by the score, but rather by how they played. Has it gotten that bad out of the Island that you guys look at it and say: 3-1? Meh, not bad! ???????

Judging things not by the score, but rather by how they played. Has it gotten that bad out of the Island that you guys look at it and say: 3-1? Meh, not bad! ???????
- Brad Ratgen

Not sure if you watched the Isles last year but they are past those bad days. As for a 3-1 loss, while it is not great, its also only preseason. I was expecting an 8-0 loss by the title of the blog., but I guess everyone has different expectations early on.

Would you want to play in front of a crowd that boos you in the first period? Also the radio made it Sond like scandella had a lot of turnovers. It's preseason not the roster were playing with all season. I hope and think your friend is pretty wrong 29th in the NHL seems like bit of stretch I'm pretty sure we are going to do better than that. I think players on the team are way to hungry for that.

Ps maybe instead of people booing them all the time that they should cheer them would probally but a little more confidence in them.

Not sure if you watched the Isles last year but they are past those bad days. As for a 3-1 loss, while it is not great, its also only preseason. I was expecting an 8-0 loss by the title of the blog., but I guess everyone has different expectations early on.
- mighty13duck

Last night at the X was pretty brutal which is not the end of the world of course being a split squad preseason opener. The Bluejackets definitely had the look of a team that had more experience playing together and in their system. That being said though I think expectations for the young players the Wild had in the lineup last night made the effort and outcome disappointing to be kind. The finally score is the least of the concern. Hopefully last night's performance is used to light a fire under the team to be more aggressive.

Relax Brad it is only exhibition and no need to panic. Also reading your blogs regulary I have also picked up that you seem to be picking on Dumba for some reason. I like your blogs, thank you for that but as a huge Dumba supporter I get the impression you want him to fail?? You said Dumba was not great last night and yet the other Wild blogger thought he played great?? I have read nothing but good things about Dumba everywhere except in your blogs. My two cents worth.

If my understanding is correct, hybrid icing is only being called during the pre-season. It is not set in stone yet.

29th in the league???!! Based on what stats??? I guess this is one of those moments when one could safely use the old addage; "stats are for losers".

No way they go from playoff team to 29th in the league in one season. I could see if they lost a Parise, Koivu or Suter in the off season, but they lost 3 guys that contributed to primarily to secondary scoring. Plus they're getting Heatley back who has been one of their scoring leaders. Not to mention the Defense should be a bit tighter this season with the addition of Ballard.

Either way, I'm not sure I'd be rushing to Vegas to place bets on that assumption. The bottom line is that this was a game with a bunch of kids, most of whom have not played much if any in the NHL yet so I'm not sure people need to start looking forward to MLB spring training just yet.... Pre-season NHL hockey outcomes are meaningless. At best it's a warm up for the guys who will actually make the roster and a place to assess the level of the players who will not. Especially the first game when not one difference making player is going to be on the ice.

If my understanding is correct, hybrid icing is only being called during the pre-season. It is not set in stone yet.

29th in the league???!! Based on what stats??? I guess this is one of those moments when one could safely use the old addage; "stats are for losers".

No way they go from playoff team to 29th in the league in one season. I could see if they lost a Parise, Koivu or Suter in the off season, but they lost 3 guys that contributed to primarily to secondary scoring. Plus they're getting Heatley back who has been one of their scoring leaders. Not to mention the Defense should be a bit tighter this season with the addition of Ballard.

Either way, I'm not sure I'd be rushing to Vegas to place bets on that assumption. The bottom line is that this was a game with a bunch of kids, most of whom have not played much if any in the NHL yet so I'm not sure people need to start looking forward to MLB spring training just yet.... Pre-season NHL hockey outcomes are meaningless. At best it's a warm up for the guys who will actually make the roster and a place to assess the level of the players who will not. Especially the first game when not one difference making player is going to be on the ice.
- MnGump

Yeah prediction of 29th place overall is quite bad and seems hard to understand how someone can come to that prediction. Just to add my opinion on your last comment, saying that its mainly rookies that played the game since its a preseason, should not change much of the analysis. Why? Well, because most teams also play their rookies to give them a chance to prove themselves. So now it becomes a rookie on rookie (with the exception of some vets). IMO a 3-1 loss isn't terrible, but I did not see them play. However, even if they played like total crap (as per the indication of this article)... it is the first pre-season game. Like chill-out, have a kitcat!

Yeah prediction of 29th place overall is quite bad and seems hard to understand how someone can come to that prediction. Just to add my opinion on your last comment, saying that its mainly rookies that played the game since its a preseason, should not change much of the analysis. Why? Well, because most teams also play their rookies to give them a chance to prove themselves. So now it becomes a rookie on rookie (with the exception of some vets). IMO a 3-1 loss isn't terrible, but I did not see them play. However, even if they played like total crap (as per the indication of this article)... it is the first pre-season game. Like chill-out, have a kitcat!
- PtotheY

Good point about the rookie on rookie aspect. But there's also a heavy factor not being mentioned in the team chemistry department in regards to a handful of bottom 6 roster players with a handful of roster hopefuls in addition to prospects that are simply there for the experience and have very little chance to make the starting roster.

I suppose a strong coaching staff can possibly make the difference in that aspect, but you've also got guys like Cooke and Ballard who are brand new to the organization and system, Dowell who has only a game or two with the big club and then add in a struggling Brodziak who proved last season that he couldn't be a difference maker even playing with the heavy hitters and you've got a lot of guys who quite simply have never played together in any kind of meaningful scenario.

Relax Brad it is only exhibition and no need to panic. Also reading your blogs regulary I have also picked up that you seem to be picking on Dumba for some reason. I like your blogs, thank you for that but as a huge Dumba supporter I get the impression you want him to fail?? You said Dumba was not great last night and yet the other Wild blogger thought he played great?? I have read nothing but good things about Dumba everywhere except in your blogs. My two cents worth.
- flyerdude17

Picking on Dumba? Not so much. However, I think it is dangerous to put too much pressure on a young player. Case in point: compare the pressure put on Granlund vs the lack of pressure put on Brodin. Granlund failed miserably while Brodin flourished. Also, Brodin had time at the AHL level and Granlund did not. Forgive me if I see a more Granlund like scenario playing out for Dumba than a Granlund like scenario. Also, the Wild have a history of rushing kids in too early and ruining him. I would rather they take time, return Dumba to Red Deer and perhaps even spend a year or two in the AHL before rushing him to the NHL. If that's picking on him by hoping the Wild do everything in their power to make sure once he comes to the NHL he is uber-successful, then I am guilty.

If my understanding is correct, hybrid icing is only being called during the pre-season. It is not set in stone yet.

29th in the league???!! Based on what stats??? I guess this is one of those moments when one could safely use the old addage; "stats are for losers".

No way they go from playoff team to 29th in the league in one season. I could see if they lost a Parise, Koivu or Suter in the off season, but they lost 3 guys that contributed to primarily to secondary scoring. Plus they're getting Heatley back who has been one of their scoring leaders. Not to mention the Defense should be a bit tighter this season with the addition of Ballard.

Either way, I'm not sure I'd be rushing to Vegas to place bets on that assumption. The bottom line is that this was a game with a bunch of kids, most of whom have not played much if any in the NHL yet so I'm not sure people need to start looking forward to MLB spring training just yet.... Pre-season NHL hockey outcomes are meaningless. At best it's a warm up for the guys who will actually make the roster and a place to assess the level of the players who will not. Especially the first game when not one difference making player is going to be on the ice.
- MnGump

Just to clarify what I wrote about the 29th place predicition, these are based on what Timo Seppa's group calls VUKOTA and he said specifically "VUKOTA has them 29th". I would encourage anyone interested in their method to google "VUKOTA" and look for the link to hockeyprospectus.com explaining this system. Also, I am not vouching for the accuracy of the prediction; simply providing my readers a shocking prediction from a trusted guy in the NHL stats community. I leave it up to each of you to put whatever value on it you will.

Picking on Dumba? Not so much. However, I think it is dangerous to put too much pressure on a young player. Case in point: compare the pressure put on Granlund vs the lack of pressure put on Brodin. Granlund failed miserably while Brodin flourished. Also, Brodin had time at the AHL level and Granlund did not. Forgive me if I see a more Granlund like scenario playing out for Dumba than a Granlund like scenario. Also, the Wild have a history of rushing kids in too early and ruining him. I would rather they take time, return Dumba to Red Deer and perhaps even spend a year or two in the AHL before rushing him to the NHL. If that's picking on him by hoping the Wild do everything in their power to make sure once he comes to the NHL he is uber-successful, then I am guilty.
- Brad Ratgen

I agree for the most part with this take Brad. I'll concede the point that "pressure" was the biggest detriment to Granlunds poor rookie season last year, but being the world level player that he was coming in, that excuse fails to hold water after a certain point. This kid was a border line super star coming out of the Finnish elite league. I'll give him all the glaring and physical differences brought on by the North American game, but a player with the vision and skill of a Mikael Granlund should be mentally able to adapt and assimilate quicker than the average prospect. IMO.

Secondly, Making Dumba a 3 - 4 year grooming project is all well and good, but then you can't draft him at 7th overall. Top ten players need to be on the ice within 2 years of their draft date. If that can't be done then they're not worthy of a top ten draft positon. If Dumba needs another 2 - 3 seasons of grooming, then the Wild made a mistake drafting him at 7. If they had any reservations that he might not be ready for 3 to 4 years, they should have moved down in the draft in order to get him with a later pick while accquiring more assets.

At this point it is what it is, but if Wild fans don't see him on the starting roster by at least opening day next season, Chuck Fletcher and his staff get a failing grade in the 2012 draft in my book.

Relax Brad it is only exhibition and no need to panic. Also reading your blogs regulary I have also picked up that you seem to be picking on Dumba for some reason. I like your blogs, thank you for that but as a huge Dumba supporter I get the impression you want him to fail?? You said Dumba was not great last night and yet the other Wild blogger thought he played great?? I have read nothing but good things about Dumba everywhere except in your blogs. My two cents worth.
- flyerdude17

An interesting point you raised here as for the first time for hopefully many games I was in the building while Brad was as well. Just goes to show perspective is and will always be relative. Brad's description of Dumba night I would not dispute because I was specifically focused on him with an eye on his every move. Dumba last night and in Sunday's scrimmage had lapses on defense leading to goals against. In my write today of Dumba I was specifically speaking to his ability to compete against bigger players and make an impact which involves alot of projection. also on a stat sheet his performance from last night doesnt translate as well i believe he performed which again is perspective. Same set of circumstances about how i feel Granlund played and how others viewed it.

Agreed, brutal. They looked pretty disjointed out there last night. A few positives, but overall difficult to watch.

29th in the league???!! Based on what stats???
- MnGump

Based on advance stats, I could see this being the case. And from the last couple of years, I can't imagine advance stats on the Wild paint a pretty picture.

What's interesting is Yeo claims they will be looking for more puck control this year. In last night's game I thought there were several instances where they didn't have a clean breakout from their own zone and they went back and re-grouped, so I think they will definitely be trying that. I saw a lot of defensemen pinching in the offensive zone to keep pucks alive too.

The thing to wonder about is if this new puck control style doesn't work too well right away, will they try to work through it or just go back to what it was like last year? Yeo says he won't coach for his job. I don't believe that.

It seems with the new additions puck possession is possible for the Wild, for the the top line Koivu and Parise struggled to consistently carry and enter the zone with the puck and maintain possession so the addition of Pominiville to that line should help to remedy the issue. In the scrimmage Sunday that line displayed chemistry, spacing, and movement of the puck for sustain offensive zone possesion in 5 on 5 work.

The 2nd Line last year was extremely dependant on Matt Cullen to enter and be chiefly responsible for puck possession and distribution. once Cullen replaced Granlund at center it sparked all sorts of offensive possesion and scoring from the 2nd line wings. Now that Cullen is gone, The idea seems to be to insert Coyle as 2nd Line center but I think he has not proven capable of carrying the puck and being strong with the puck on his stick. Coyle is a strong hardworking kid that I believe will score at the NHL level I just have serious doubts about his ability to play in the middle and believe he will require a complimentary type such as Granlund to set the table for him. The addition of Niederreiter and pairing him with Coyle immediately has looked very promising and maybe he can be the player to excel at entering the zone with the puck and maintaining the possesion. I was pleasantly surprised with Niederrieter's ability to find and distribute the puck to Heatley in scoring areas during the Sunday scrimmage so maybe he will be the glue that holds the 2nd line together with Coyle and Heatley?

It seems with the new additions puck possession is possible for the Wild, for the the top line Koivu and Parise struggled to consistently carry and enter the zone with the puck and maintain possession so the addition of Pominiville to that line should help to remedy the issue. In the scrimmage Sunday that line displayed chemistry, spacing, and movement of the puck for sustain offensive zone possesion in 5 on 5 work.

The 2nd Line last year was extremely dependant on Matt Cullen to enter and be chiefly responsible for puck possession and distribution. once Cullen replaced Granlund at center it sparked all sorts of offensive possesion and scoring from the 2nd line wings. Now that Cullen is gone, The idea seems to be to insert Coyle as 2nd Line center but I think he has not proven capable of carrying the puck and being strong with the puck on his stick. Coyle is a strong hardworking kid that I believe will score at the NHL level I just have serious doubts about his ability to play in the middle and believe he will require a complimentary type such as Granlund to set the table for him. The addition of Niederreiter and pairing him with Coyle immediately has looked very promising and maybe he can be the player to excel at entering the zone with the puck and maintaining the possesion. I was pleasantly surprised with Niederrieter's ability to find and distribute the puck to Heatley in scoring areas during the Sunday scrimmage so maybe he will be the glue that holds the 2nd line together with Coyle and Heatley?
- Tony Dean

I've never really liked Parise playing with Koivu because I don't think they have complementary styles. Koivu isn't what I would call a fast offensive player in that he doesn't make things happen quickly. I think he does a good job controlling and protecting the puck, i.e., plays a good possession game, but he tends to glide around and sort of waits for an opening rather than just attacking.

I thought Cullen was a much quicker offensive player - read the play and his options more quickly and involved his linemates better and more immediately in the play.
I think that kind of style complements Parise much better and why I was disappointed we never got to see how they would have worked together. To me, Parise just plays a much more straight ahead, faster game than Koivu.

I agree with you on Coyle about being a good puck handler/distributor. I think Coyle has shown he can protect the puck well and win battles along the wall. But we haven't really seen him take it from the wall and drive the net with a move or two.

So far, what I see from Coyle, is a good working winger - someone who can win the battles in the corners and can get the puck to a better playmaker on his line. That's why I don't like him at center.

I think he fits better on Koivu's wing because their two strengths allow better puck possession. And that's why I would like to see Healtey paired with Koivu and Coyle. I think Coyle can be the worker, Koivu can be the distributor, and Heatley is the trigger man.

That would move Parise and Pominville to another line. They would just need a capable center who can skate with them and can handle the puck. I really wanted to see Cullen be that guy this year. I'd like to see if Granlund can handle that assignment. He looks more comfortable and confident so far, just not sure how long that will last. I think he may be more like Cullen and less like Koivu when it comes to his offensive style.

The other possibility I'm wondering about is Pominville in the middle. I'm not sure if he played center at all in Buffalo, but he seems capable. If a guy like Niederreiter shows enough promise to make the team, maybe they could try Pominville at center with Parise and Niederreiter on his wing or maybe even Heatley on that wing and play Niederreiter with Koivu and Coyle.

Yes, I'll be whining about breaking up Koivu-Parise all year.

Picking on Dumba? Not so much. However, I think it is dangerous to put too much pressure on a young player. Case in point: compare the pressure put on Granlund vs the lack of pressure put on Brodin. Granlund failed miserably while Brodin flourished. Also, Brodin had time at the AHL level and Granlund did not. Forgive me if I see a more Granlund like scenario playing out for Dumba than a Granlund like scenario. Also, the Wild have a history of rushing kids in too early and ruining him. I would rather they take time, return Dumba to Red Deer and perhaps even spend a year or two in the AHL before rushing him to the NHL. If that's picking on him by hoping the Wild do everything in their power to make sure once he comes to the NHL he is uber-successful, then I am guilty.
- Brad Ratgen

I see your point Brad but after watching tonites game I predict Dumba is ready and will make the team. He can not get much better playing in the WHL. He would be better off sticking as a #7 dman and practicing with the Wild. In tonites game he was the second star, played almost 25 minutes and looked great. I think he is going to be worth the price of admission one day soon. Skate, pass, shoot and hit, what a package.

I see your point Brad but after watching tonites game I predict Dumba is ready and will make the team. He can not get much better playing in the WHL. He would be better off sticking as a #7 dman and practicing with the Wild. In tonites game he was the second star, played almost 25 minutes and looked great. I think he is going to be worth the price of admission one day soon. Skate, pass, shoot and hit, what a package.
- flyerdude17

I don't know that I agree that he is better off as a #7 with the Wild as opposed to playing top pairing minutes in all situations in the WHL? I think he sticks with the Wild out of camp and gets a few games, then they decide what to do. If he is really ready and makes the team for the year, I think he needs to play regularly.

The question is, if Dumba makes it, who gets pushed out? I think the Wild have plenty of serviceable #7 type guys and I'd rather see Dumba in the top six if he is going to stick. I wonder if we see a deal or two made at the end of camp or early in the season if they think Dumba is ready.

I see your point Brad but after watching tonites game I predict Dumba is ready and will make the team. He can not get much better playing in the WHL. He would be better off sticking as a #7 dman and practicing with the Wild. In tonites game he was the second star, played almost 25 minutes and looked great. I think he is going to be worth the price of admission one day soon. Skate, pass, shoot and hit, what a package.
- flyerdude17

I tend to agree with your take. I just wanted to put out there the past history the Wild have with bringing guys in too soon, Brodin excluded. I would also disagree with you that if he makes this team, he will probably be in the 2nd pairing (so 3rd or 4th defenseman), not 7th.

I don't know that I agree that he is better off as a #7 with the Wild as opposed to playing top pairing minutes in all situations in the WHL? I think he sticks with the Wild out of camp and gets a few games, then they decide what to do. If he is really ready and makes the team for the year, I think he needs to play regularly.

The question is, if Dumba makes it, who gets pushed out? I think the Wild have plenty of serviceable #7 type guys and I'd rather see Dumba in the top six if he is going to stick. I wonder if we see a deal or two made at the end of camp or early in the season if they think Dumba is ready.
- Chinaski

Good point. Serviceable defensemen seem to be at a premium given how few can really come in and play at the NHL level. If Dumba is in, I would guess that Prosser is out and Stoner is #7. Thoughts?

Good point. Serviceable defensemen seem to be at a premium given how few can really come in and play at the NHL level. If Dumba is in, I would guess that Prosser is out and Stoner is #7. Thoughts?
- Brad Ratgen

Yeah, I can't see it any other way. Stoner is not all that great, but he offers up a bit more than Prosser does in the way of diverse play. Prosser is such a border line player, doesn't really impress, but is servicable enough to qualify as a number 7 bubble guy.

Good point. Serviceable defensemen seem to be at a premium given how few can really come in and play at the NHL level. If Dumba is in, I would guess that Prosser is out and Stoner is #7. Thoughts?
- Brad Ratgen

I would think Prosser is definitely out, but I'm not sure I see them carrying Stoner as a #7 in terms of scratching him most games. I think Yeo likes to have Stoner in the lineup for his ability to play a little more physical role and I'm not sure they have that with anyone else. Although, Ballard plays with a bit more physicality than most of the other defensemen, so they may have gained some physicality on the blueline with Ballard's signing.

Another thing to consider with Stoner is what do the third and fourth lines look like? If these young guys push hard enough and Konopka and Rupp are scratches most nights, they may want Stoner in the lineup regularly to handle any fighting that needs to be done.

I think for Dumba to stick with the team he needs to outplay a guy like Scandella, Spurgeon, or Ballard. And I would guess right now he's got the best shot to outplay Scandella. If that were to happen, would they try to deal Scandella and carry Prosser or Blum as a #7?