Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Giroux, Gill, Gagne and More

Good morning everybody. What a beautiful day for college football

I agree with the assessment on Simon Gagne. It's not that he can't play, or that he couldn't be a Flyer. It's that for the role that the Flyers have open, Daniel Cleary would have been a better fit, and since Cleary isn't coming, then the Flyers' internal candidates, more likely than not, can do what Gagne does.

It's...man. It's tough, because I really like him as a player and he had a tremendous career as a Flyer. But he's not a grinding, third-line winger. If Matt Read wasn't on that line, then fine -- bring Gagne in. But Read is there, and Sean Couturier hasn't shown himself to be that gritty, grinding, board-controlling monster that we all hope he will be...so, to balance out that line, you gotta have somebody who's a bit more, well...not what Gagne is at this stage of his career.

Maybe it could've been handled better. I don't know the internal communications. But if you don't have a contract and you're just waiting on one team...maybe that isn't the direction you should go, just in case.

Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Giroux, Gill, Gagne and More
- bmeltzer

Bill, why does CSN continually mention G's injury as a wrist injury? Just curious.

Gill vs. Gervais? I'd probably take Gill if salaries being equal. While Bruno, like Gill, would be a serviceable seventh d-man. I fell Gill would bring more if needed - size and leadership- neither of which Gervais can bring to the table.

It's a shame the Flyers need to treat Gagne once again, with the same respect as they gave Lasse Kukkonen. First with the low class way they handled his move to LA, now this. Simon certainly deserves much better from this organization.

While I agree sentiment should never come into play regarding roster decisions, there are ways to approach it with class and some dignity when it come to special players, one of which Gagne definitely is

Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Giroux, Gill, Gagne and More
- bmeltzer

I feel bad for Gagne too, but at the end of the day it is a business.

I really wouldn't be surprised to see Gill make it as the 7th man (assuming Mez is moved by the end of camp) and Gervais getting waived. If you look at his past history, Nik Grossmann averaged less than 70 games per year over his last 3 full seasons, has 2 bad knees and is coming off a concussion. Gill would be a good fill in for his spot if he goes down. With Timonen and Streit both being guys who don't seem to miss many games, it just seems like Gill would be a better fit in that 7th spot than Gervais.

Finally, I feel really bad for Bourdon. I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up retiring by the end of the season. I just hope he can at least get healthy enough to enjoy a full and active life without post-concussion complications.

I feel bad for Gagne too, but at the end of the day it is a business.

I really wouldn't be surprised to see Gill make it as the 7th man (assuming Mez is moved by the end of camp) and Gervais getting waived. If you look at his past history, Nik Grossmann averaged less than 70 games per year over his last 3 full seasons, has 2 bad knees and is coming off a concussion. Gill would be a good fill in for his spot if he goes down. With Timonen and Streit both being guys who don't seem to miss many games, it just seems like Gill would be a better fit in that 7th spot than Gervais.

Finally, I feel really bad for Bourdon. I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up retiring by the end of the season. I just hope he can at least get healthy enough to enjoy a full and active life without post-concussion complications.
- BiggE

You know, it's funny. The Flyers really can't ignore how...not good...Bruno Gervais was last year when he was inserted into the lineup. But the question always becomes, because the team struggled, was Gervais' play one of the primary reasons for their struggles, or merely a symptom of it?

If Gill plays passably in the preseason, we're probably going to get the answer of what the Flyers truly thought of Gervais' play last year.

As for Marc-Andre Bourdon...that's absolutely the byproduct of being a young player who is desperate to remain in the lineup after a few years in the minors. It's everything that is wrong with professional sports -- players feel like they have no option but to play through injury when they're young, otherwise get labeled as "injury prone" or see someone else get a shot at the lineup.

I don't know how you get around it. But anyone who saw Bourdon's quotes from a couple of years ago knew that he was desperate to stay in Philadelphia, to graduate from the AHL. It's...sad.

You know, it's funny. The Flyers really can't ignore how...not good...Bruno Gervais was last year when he was inserted into the lineup. But the question always becomes, because the team struggled, was Gervais' play one of the primary reasons for their struggles, or merely a symptom of it?

If Gill plays passably in the preseason, we're probably going to get the answer of what the Flyers truly thought of Gervais' play last year.

As for Marc-Andre Bourdon...that's absolutely the byproduct of being a young player who is desperate to remain in the lineup after a few years in the minors. It's everything that is wrong with professional sports -- players feel like they have no option but to play through injury when they're young, otherwise get labeled as "injury prone" or see someone else get a shot at the lineup.

I don't know how you get around it. But anyone who saw Bourdon's quotes from a couple of years ago knew that he was desperate to stay in Philadelphia, to graduate from the AHL. It's...sad.
- AllInForFlyers

I may be in the minority here, but I didn't think Gervais played too poorly when used in the 6th-7th dman role he was brought here for. It was when injuries struck and he was consistently in the lineup night in and night out as a 4th-6th dman that the struggles were apparent. I'm torn on Gervais vs. Gill as the 7th dman, guess that's what the preseason is for. If Gill doesn't end up here, I hope he finds an NHL gig somewhere, he sounds like a class act.

And I'm sad to see the quote from Gagne, but like those that have said this before me, this is a business. This isn't the first time this has happened to a player and it certainly won't be the last time.

And I'm really pulling for Bourdon. I hope he is one day able to get back on that ice symptom free and show us what he has.

Good morning everybody. What a beautiful day for college football
- KINGKENZO

Lets see A & M beat the tide.....then it will be a beautiful day!!!

I am not a big fan of the "this is a business" stance a lot of fans are taking, we all understand that hockey is a business but that doesn't mean it should be void of ethics. From everything you heard all summer and what you are hearing directly from Gagne now the Flyers definitely led him to believe that he would be resigned once they sorted out the cap situation. Regardless of whether you think he should be resigned or not it isn't very professional to string a player along like that. Gervais is terrible, I am not sure why an accomplished veteran like Gill would have to significantly outplay him to take his spot other than the fact that Holmgren inked the AHL caliber Gervais to a terrible 2 year deal.

At the flyers practice! Soooo nice to see some hockey!

Wow what a surprise alt does not report any concussion symptoms at tryout camp?

What the Flyers and Homer did the Gagne was wrong. Period. And it leaves a bad taste in the mouth.

I guess it should be assumed that unless you have a signed contract that anything can happen. Hand shake deals don't mean anything, until the ink is dried on the contract both sides are always looking for a better dance partner. I for one think there should be something for loyalty, but it just isn't that way anymore. I get it's business, but Gags deserved better or at least better from what we've heard.

I am not a big fan of the "this is a business" stance a lot of fans are taking, we all understand that hockey is a business but that doesn't mean it should be void of ethics. From everything you heard all summer and what you are hearing directly from Gagne now the Flyers definitely led him to believe that he would be resigned once they sorted out the cap situation. Regardless of whether you think he should be resigned or not it isn't very professional to string a player along like that. Gervais is terrible, I am not sure why an accomplished veteran like Gill would have to significantly outplay him to take his spot other than the fact that Holmgren inked the AHL caliber Gervais to a terrible 2 year deal.
- MFC

Employers/supervisors string employees along all the time, whether it's about promotions, raises, short-term employment becoming a long-term arrangement, pet projects getting budgetary approval, or whatever. It's unpleasant but it's reality, and it certainly applies to the sports world as well as other businesses.

Gervais is fine as a reasonably young and experienced number seven who fills in as needed or passable as a regular-season number six. "Terrible" or "AHL-caliber" players don't get to start 400+ NHL games over six-plus seasons of continuous service time at the NHL level. The thing with Gervais is that while he skates and passes like an NHL regular, he is neither a high-end offensive talent nor an above-average coverage defenseman. But if you spot him about 10-12 minutes of ice time and keep him away from tough matchups, he can hold his own in the NHL. Ask more than that, and his weaknesses get exposed.

In regard to Gill versus Gervais as the number seven, it's partially a matter of which type of D-man (big-bodied shot blocker or mobile puck-mover) needs more depth in the roster mix. If Gustafsson's play at the end of last year and the Worlds was who he really is as a player, then the Flyers have three puck-movers and three defensive D and it's a little more a matter of preference.

However, I think it also works against Gill a bit that Lauridsen is waiting in the wings for a callup, in addition to Grossmann and Schenn being starters on the NHL roster. That's why I think he'd have to noticeably be more effective than Gervais to win the seven spot out of camp.

Wow what a surprise alt does not report any concussion symptoms at tryout camp?
- Just5

I hear you... Crossed my mind, too.

What the Flyers and Homer did the Gagne was wrong. Period. And it leaves a bad taste in the mouth.
- wolfhounds

I would have preferred it if the Flyers had just leveled with Gagne and told him he was just one of a couple of options they were considering -- and if he could go find a contract sooner elsewhere, he should go for it.

BTW, during his own playing career, Holmgren was on the other end of a similar thing in his final season in Philly. Bob McCammon wasn't entirely on the level with him in summer discussions about where he'd fit on the team. Holmgren ended up with greatly reduced playing time and an eventual trade to Minnesota after being told his roster spot was safe.

I feel better this year vs last year. I like the goalie situation better, like that the younger guys have had another year of experience, and the d looks better. I think we will see how bad Bryz was for this team, not just from an on ice point.

I would have preferred it if the Flyers had just leveled with Gagne and told him he was just one of a couple of options they were considering -- and if he could go find a contract sooner elsewhere, he should go for it.

BTW, during his own playing career, Holmgren was on the other end of a similar thing in his final season in Philly. Bob McCammon wasn't entirely on the level with him in summer discussions about where he'd fit on the team. Holmgren ended up with greatly reduced playing time and an eventual trade to Minnesota after being told his roster spot was safe.
- bmeltzer

Don't you think to some extent Gagne and his agent should have known that. It's not like Gagne is new to the game. I would have figured he would have also been looking just like Holmgren was. I agree they should have been more honest with Gagne, but things just aren't that way.

In some ways, it makes me a little sick how the Flyers treated one of their all time heroes and fan favorites here. In other ways, I question why Gagne would totally bottleneck his opportunities like that. Why tell his agent to not even negotiate with other teams? Just because he would've had fallout plan negotiations going on, wouldn't have meant that he would've had to accept any other offers over the Flyers', or that he would've been less likely to get on the Flyers' payroll. It seems a little boneheaded, to me.

Don't you think to some extent Gagne and his agent should have known that. It's not like Gagne is new to the game. I would have figured he would have also been looking just like Holmgren was. I agree they should have been more honest with Gagne, but things just aren't that way.
- LJF

But why shouldn't they be more open and honest, especially with a player like Simon?

But why shouldn't they be more open and honest, especially with a player like Simon?
- 77rams

It's just the way the business of pro sports operates. Who knows, when they first talked to Gagne, which was most likely in May or June, Cleary was probably not even on their radar. Should they have told Gagne to go ahead and look around? Yes, absolutely. On the other hand, Gagne and especially his agent, should have enough understanding of how the league operates to have gone and looked around anyway.

At the flyers practice! Soooo nice to see some hockey!
- ggunky

Ggunk in da house!

Bill, why does CSN continually mention G's injury as a wrist injury? Just curious.

Gill vs. Gervais? I'd probably take Gill if salaries being equal. While Bruno, like Gill, would be a serviceable seventh d-man. I fell Gill would bring more if needed - size and leadership- neither of which Gervais can bring to the table.

It's a shame the Flyers need to treat Gagne once again, with the same respect as they gave Lasse Kukkonen. First with the low class way they handled his move to LA, now this. Simon certainly deserves much better from this organization.

While I agree sentiment should never come into play regarding roster decisions, there are ways to approach it with class and some dignity when it come to special players, one of which Gagne definitely is
- 77rams

How did the Flyers handle Gagne's move to LA with low class? How did they disrespect Kukonen?

I am not a big fan of the "this is a business" stance a lot of fans are taking, we all understand that hockey is a business but that doesn't mean it should be void of ethics. From everything you heard all summer and what you are hearing directly from Gagne now the Flyers definitely led him to believe that he would be resigned once they sorted out the cap situation. Regardless of whether you think he should be resigned or not it isn't very professional to string a player along like that. Gervais is terrible, I am not sure why an accomplished veteran like Gill would have to significantly outplay him to take his spot other than the fact that Holmgren inked the AHL caliber Gervais to a terrible 2 year deal.
- MFC

There's two sides to every story. Sometimes one side sees it differently then the other side. Gagne maybe upset, but it's not fair to judge the Flyers just based on what Gagne says.

Gervais is fine as a reasonably young and experienced number seven who fills in as needed or passable as a regular-season number six. "Terrible" or "AHL-caliber" players don't get to start 400+ NHL games over six-plus seasons of continuous service time at the NHL level. The thing with Gervais is that while he skates and passes like an NHL regular, he is neither a high-end offensive talent nor an above-average coverage defenseman. But if you spot him about 10-12 minutes of ice time and keep him away from tough matchups, he can hold his own in the NHL. Ask more than that, and his weaknesses get exposed.


- bmeltzer

I said pretty much the exact same thing many times concerning Gervais as a player. But that didn't go over too well on here. I got the proverbial, "he sucks"!
Gervais averaged over 17 minutes if icetime a game. That is far too much. Much better defenseman then Gervais looked bad with the way the FLyers played defensively as a team.