Mark Spizzirri: Nyquist re-signs for two years; now we await the shell game

kid weighs as much as grade 10's do in highschool...

hes going to get eatin alive in the east.

If so, at least it only costs them $950k per.

The beauty is the Leafs success against Boston in Round 1 in a series they ultimately had won until the final moments of Game 7 is they had success when they decided to utilize their speed and skill instead of the beginning of the series when they attempted to play a physical brand of hockey.

Just saying...

Quincey needs to go ASAP. If we can get rid of him before the season that would cure all cap problems and open up space for the possibility of a trade for a top end defender during the season. Maybe Yandle, Buff, or someone new pops up during the season. Getting rid of other cheap forwards just hurts depth and doesn't open enough space other than just getting under. Getting rid of Tootoo would lose grit, at least he's a decent 4th line option. I'd much rather lose Quincey and all his bonehead plays in his own end every single game while gaining an additional 1.3 mill or so he makes more of Tootoo.

i agree that quincey has to go. ericsson played really well for us last year, and i feel like he's finally rounded out his play. quincey, on the other hand, is still making rookie mistakes. emmerton is no datsyuk, but he's solid, and it would be nice to keep that depth.

keep emmerton,low cap hit
Id get rid of one of miller/eaves-basically the same player

keep emmerton,low cap hit
Id get rid of one of miller/eaves-basically the same player
- Jurco_28

Can't see them trading Miller after they just signed him. Eaves is likely the odd man out. Wish they could get rid of Sammy though and his 3 mil cap hit...to me he's not needed in Detroit at that salary. Take out Quincey and Sammy's salaries and that money could be much better spent on a good defenseman.

If so, at least it only costs them $950k per.

The beauty is the Leafs success against Boston in Round 1 in a series they ultimately had won until the final moments of Game 7 is they had success when they decided to utilize their speed and skill instead of the beginning of the series when they attempted to play a physical brand of hockey.

Just saying...
- spity1

well what can you do when the coach is too stupid to call a time out in the last 10 mins of a game 7.



baffling, isnt it?

Quincey needs to go ASAP. If we can get rid of him before the season that would cure all cap problems and open up space for the possibility of a trade for a top end defender during the season. Maybe Yandle, Buff, or someone new pops up during the season. Getting rid of other cheap forwards just hurts depth and doesn't open enough space other than just getting under. Getting rid of Tootoo would lose grit, at least he's a decent 4th line option. I'd much rather lose Quincey and all his bonehead plays in his own end every single game while gaining an additional 1.3 mill or so he makes more of Tootoo.
- Lytes9

I agree that Quincey can be detrimental to the team at times, but he actually did have a fair playoff run and did redeem himself somewhat. That being said, it might give him a little bit more value in a trade of some sorts. It would take a hell of a lot to aquire those defensemen, I would think Yandle would require Quincey, Tatar, a high end prospect and a 1st or 2nd. We would still have to shed salary in order to sign Yandle, getting rid of players for picks (which I am all for) but it would be hard to find a willing team to do business with.

Can't see them trading Miller after they just signed him. Eaves is likely the odd man out. Wish they could get rid of Sammy though and his 3 mil cap hit...to me he's not needed in Detroit at that salary. Take out Quincey and Sammy's salaries and that money could be much better spent on a good defenseman.
- dcz28

Agree that Miller getting moved would be odd after re-signing him to three-year deal. I really believe they would love to avoid moving Eaves unless absolutely necessary...feel the team really likes his work on the penalty kill and his ability to play multiple roles in the lineup in a pinch.

I agree that Quincey can be detrimental to the team at times, but he actually did have a fair playoff run and did redeem himself somewhat. That being said, it might give him a little bit more value in a trade of some sorts. It would take a hell of a lot to aquire those defensemen, I would think Yandle would require Quincey, Tatar, a high end prospect and a 1st or 2nd. We would still have to shed salary in order to sign Yandle, getting rid of players for picks (which I am all for) but it would be hard to find a willing team to do business with.
- Yzermanforever

I don't even think a team giving up a top end defence would want Quincey back in the deal. Like I said, his salary (and hopefully Samuelssons) coming off the team would just open the door for a possible trade, but just Quincey's coming off some more salary would have to go back. I'd expect a deal to cost something like Ericsson or Kindl, Tatar or Nyquist, and a first round pick. Maybe even a second rounder or prospect like Frk as well depending on the assets settled on and the player coming in returns credentials.

Like I said, I was just going for extra salary coming off other than just getting under the cap to open up an opportunity for a deal if one of those players who have been mentioned in rumors before or someone new on that level comes up potentially. Looking at the top six, depth at forward, and youth on defence that should get better after a good playoff experience, I think this team is just an elite defencemen away from a real strong Cup run. I think they should at least put themselves in the position they can acquire that player.

Agree that Miller getting moved would be odd after re-signing him to three-year deal. I really believe they would love to avoid moving Eaves unless absolutely necessary...feel the team really likes his work on the penalty kill and his ability to play multiple roles in the lineup in a pinch.
- spity1

I like Eaves and I wouldn't mind if they kept him but 2 guys pretty much have to go unless some players get injured during camp...even that likely would just delay what Holland has to do.

I don't really like the idea of Tootoo leaving...he brings something the Wings don't have a lot of. Sammy and Bert can say no to any trade and likely not much interest in either from other teams at this point. Then there is Emmerton...to me he would be an obvious choice to let go even with Helm's injury history. I just don't see much of a future for Emmerton with the Wings and Ferraro plays a similar style with maybe more offensive upside to him. Then they will also have Jarnkrok and Sheahan they could call up in case of an injury.

All the other forwards I wouldn't trade unless Holland could make a package to bring in a good top 4 right handed shooting defenseman or a true power forward (by true I don't mean a Franzen or Ryan type...more like Lucic type).

Agree that Miller getting moved would be odd after re-signing him to three-year deal. I really believe they would love to avoid moving Eaves unless absolutely necessary...feel the team really likes his work on the penalty kill and his ability to play multiple roles in the lineup in a pinch.
- spity1

I think Tootoo, Emmerton and Samuelsson are the guys on the "move" bubble. Despite the fact Miller/Eaves may not seem to add much on the scoresheet -- I feel they do alot of little things 3rd and 4th should do, which is a thankless yet important job.

I think Miller/Eaves importance is very understated much of the time.

How the Wings have not waived Toootoo at this point is all but amazing. 1.9 million is a ridiculous number for a player that will be scratched 50% of the time.

could be that Tootoo is only being held onto for trade bait...

could be that Tootoo is only being held onto for trade bait...
- buttshot

Nobody wants him, hollands been trying to make a trade since the draft.
nobody wants other teams garbage.

kid weighs as much as grade 10's do in highschool...

hes going to get eatin alive in the east.
- big_dion

Datsyuk doesnt weigh much either. He doesnt stand a chance against guys like Phaneuf, right? On that note, I saw a ton of Phaneuf on youtube today. I was watching Datsyuk highlights, and it consisted of him walking around that pylon and scoring.

How the Wings have not waived Toootoo at this point is all but amazing. 1.9 million is a ridiculous number for a player that will be scratched 50% of the time.
- PoileRulezzzYo

I dont think Tootoo's play was the issue. The issue is the Wings current style doesnt have as much room for a player like Tootoo vs someone like Miller/Eaves who can play a dual role as a regular 5 on 5 and pk guy.

In addition -- the surprise in Motown was Andersson, Nyquist being able to play regularly minutes a year or two early.

I dont think Tootoo's play was the issue. The issue is the Wings current style doesnt have as much room for a player like Tootoo vs someone like Miller/Eaves who can play a dual role as a regular 5 on 5 and pk guy.

In addition -- the surprise in Motown was Andersson, Nyquist being able to play regularly minutes a year or two early.
- BooBoo997

I wouldn't call them playing in the NHL a year or two early...I mean they'll both be 24 by the time the season starts. I know the wings take their time with their prospects but starting the in the big league at 24 isn't early even for them.

I wouldn't call them playing in the NHL a year or two early...I mean they'll both be 24 by the time the season starts. I know the wings take their time with their prospects but starting the in the big league at 24 isn't early even for them.
- Joel_Eh

By "early" he didnt mean "young." He meant EARLY as in they didnt expect those 2 guys to be able to come up and the play the way they are playing so EARLY.

I wouldn't call them playing in the NHL a year or two early...I mean they'll both be 24 by the time the season starts. I know the wings take their time with their prospects but starting the in the big league at 24 isn't early even for them.
- Joel_Eh

It is in motown --
- Kindl was drafted in 2005' and in 2013 he is not even playing regularly yet.
- Howard was drafted in 2003' and his first full NHL season was in 2010.
- Nyquist was drafted in 2008' and was playing regularly in 2013' and Andersson was drafted in 2007' and now playing regulary.

So by those standards, yes Nyquist and Andersson are early.

By "early" he didnt mean "young." He meant EARLY as in they didnt expect those 2 guys to be able to come up and the play the way they are playing so EARLY.
- Sulli03

thank you.

How the Wings have not waived Toootoo at this point is all but amazing. 1.9 million is a ridiculous number for a player that will be scratched 50% of the time.
- PoileRulezzzYo

More or less agree. I hope that, if Holland can't broker a deal and has to resort to waiving somebody, Tootoo is the first one to get the ax.

He doesn't generate offense. He doesn't line up against tough competition. He doesn't drive possession and his lines typically get outchanced when he's on the ice. He doesn't play special teams.

I think he's probably a better player 5-on-5 than Cory Emmerton, but at least Emmerton barely makes league minimum, plays center (which the Red Wings don't have a lot of in the bottom six), and can go out on the penalty kill and look like he knows what he's doing. Tootoo at $1.9m through 2015 is brutal.

I don't really like the idea of Tootoo leaving...he brings something the Wings don't have a lot of.
- dcz28

What, exactly, do you think he brings? Because I just don't see what he does so well that helps a team actually win hockey games.

Fighting? I have yet to see any convincing argument that fighting has any meaningful effect on changing momentum, energizing team play, or helping teams win games. You can point to anecdotal evidence where this or that team made a comeback after a fight, but was it because of the fight? Neither my eyes nor any of the analyses I've seen really make a case for fighting being particularly meaningful in terms of influencing game outcomes.

Physical play? Tootoo throws a lot of big, exciting hits. You definitely notice him when he's on the ice. But does going out there and crashing into the other team's scrubs (since Tootoo doesn't play tough defensive minutes or line up against opponents' top lines) really translate into more goals for Detroit or fewer for the opposition? Again, I think the evidence -- both observational and statistical -- is very weak here.

Agitation? Tootoo is undeniably a very good agitator, who is able to draw penalties at a very high rate -- even higher than the rate at which he takes them. In the era for which these statistics are available (2007-08 to present), Tootoo has been able to draw an average of 0.63 more penalties than he takes per 60 minutes of even strength ice time, a very good rate.

But how many goals does that translate to over the course of a season? The answer: not much. At 9 minutes of even strength ice time per game over a full 82 games, Tootoo would be expected to draw 7.75 penalties more than he takes. Assuming the team is close league average on both the powerplay and the penalty kill (for my estimates, that's 17.5/82.5 efficiency), that translates into an expected advantage of just 1.36 net goals per season based on Tootoo's agitation skills. And that's assuming he plays 82 games; in practical terms the real number would be lower than that.

I just don't think Tootoo adds very much to this team. As said before, he doesn't score, he doesn't play good defense, he doesn't drive possession, he doesn't play on special teams.

If he were a better hockey player and could be trusted to play more minutes against better opponents, then the things he actually is good at (physical play, drawing penalties, agitating) might prove more valuable. But at 9 low-importance minutes per night against scrubs, I don't think those skills really translate into more wins in the standings.

As much as I like Tootoo and the sandpaper he brings to the Wings... I have to admit it's hard to justify his salary. If he were bigger and had more offensive upside (similar to what Martin LaPointe or McCarty was) then I'd say keep him.

I just do NOT want the Wings to waive or get rid of Eaves. That would be a huge mistake. He is a solid utility depth player and not expensive. When paired with Helm and Miller, that line is an excellent 4th line. I don't mind Emmerton since he's a center and has a tiny salary... but he might get a decent draft pick in a trade. However... I'll take keeping Eaves over Emmerton any day of the week.

What is annoying is having Bert and Samuellson taking up cap space and roster spaces. What a waste. If Bert can stay healthy and actually be effective then he can add something to the team.

I won't miss Filpula at all especially at the ridiculous salary Yzerman is paying him. Andersson has the potential to exceed what Fils was in every category... but we'll see how he turns out. But we need to keep Andersson at Center and not play him on the wing like they did Fils.