Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Voracek

Voracek is a beast, him and Giroux are gonna tear it up. I dont think its fair to knock his two-way game last season cause the flyboys had such a hard time getting up the ice he had to try and get something on offense going.

I remember hearing people last season saying one reason we failed is that we never replaced Jagr. They seem to forget that Jake is from the same town as Jags, has the same skating style as Jags, protects the puck a lot like Jags, makes some magic passes like Jags, has a monster wrister like Jags. Just his play style overall reminds me a alot of McJagr. Obviously he'll never be as good as Jagr (in Jagrs prime) but he's pretty much Jaromir Jr.

I remember hearing people last season saying one reason we failed is that we never replaced Jagr. They seem to forget that Jake is from the same town as Jags, has the same skating style as Jags, protects the puck a lot like Jags, makes some magic passes like Jags, has a monster wrister like Jags. Just his play style overall reminds me a alot of McJagr. Obviously he'll never be as good as Jagr (in Jagrs prime) but he's pretty much Jaromir Jr.
- JAKEw1234

He was better this season then Jagr the year we had him, he was replaced just fine. Its better to have Voracek playing the top line instead of the 3rd line like he was the season prior

Voracek is a beast, him and Giroux are gonna tear it up. I dont think its fair to knock his two-way game last season cause the flyboys had such a hard time getting up the ice he had to try and get something on offense going.
- GOA88

Agreed!
How many point per game forwards continue perfect 2 way games at 5 on 5

That's pretty much what happens when a players offense picks up to this level, imagine Bergeron in Boston, scoring a point per game clip, the same would & could be said and affect his 2 way play as well.
Guess that's also why the Blues don't have any players flirting at a PPG clip, Hitch wants total defensive commitment therefore a players offensive game/numbers go down.
Elias on the Devils thru the trap years, etc.
Imagine Nash in NY with that contract playing more 2 way and finishing with 20-25 goals for the $ he's making. It's a fine line in a players game

Aw, a Jake birthday tribute!

OT, but this josh harris 6ers-devils thing really bothers me. not that i give a (frank) about the 6ers (although i used to love them)...this is a massive violation.

Agreed!
How many point per game forwards continue perfect 2 way games at 5 on 5

That's pretty much what happens when a players offense picks up to this level, imagine Bergeron in Boston, scoring a point per game clip, the same would & could be said and affect his 2 way play as well.
Guess that's also why the Blues don't have any players flirting at a PPG clip, Hitch wants total defensive commitment therefore a players offensive game/numbers go down.
Elias on the Devils thru the trap years, etc.
- puckhead17

Well thats not exactly what I was trying to say, but I see what you mean. I think Giroux and Voracek are completely capable of scoring points and staying strong on the defense. I just think the team struggled as a whole and those two took it upon themeselves to push extra hard at creating offense cause nobody else could.

Agreed!
How many point per game forwards continue perfect 2 way games at 5 on 5

That's pretty much what happens when a players offense picks up to this level, imagine Bergeron in Boston, scoring a point per game clip, the same would & could be said and affect his 2 way play as well.
Guess that's also why the Blues don't have any players flirting at a PPG clip, Hitch wants total defensive commitment therefore a players offensive game/numbers go down.
Elias on the Devils thru the trap years, etc.
Imagine Nash in NY with that contract playing more 2 way and finishing with 20-25 goals for the $ he's making. It's a fine line in a players game
- puckhead17

Defense creates offense. Look around the League. There is a bunch of players who produce points at a high clip, while also being very good defensively. A players offensive production rising, does not mean that his level of defensive play needs to suffer.

Defense creates offense. Look around the League. There is a bunch of players who produce points at a high clip, while also being very good defensively. A players offensive production rising, does not mean that his level of defensive play needs to suffer.
- MJL

Agreed, unless your team cant score for poop and its all on those two to try and get something offensive going. They had to outscore what Bryz was letting in. Thats a lot of pressure on the offense.

Well thats not exactly what I was trying to say, but I see what you mean. I think Giroux and Voracek are completely capable of scoring points and staying strong on the defense. I just think the team struggled as a whole and those two took it upon themeselves to push extra hard at creating offense cause nobody else could.
- GOA88

Right, I understand, but its actually the same, no one would deal or accept a player with stone hands cherry picking, if Giroux and Voracek become 60 point players a year playing way more 2 way when they are capable of getting way more production, yes it helps the team but, no one is paying Giroux over $8 mill a year to produce less points.
Transition game getting better would help the total team function/attack.

Defense creates offense. Look around the League. There is a bunch of players who produce points at a high clip, while also being very good defensively. A players offensive production rising, does not mean that his level of defensive play needs to suffer.
- MJL

A negative comment and disagreement from you? How original!

Well thats not exactly what I was trying to say, but I see what you mean. I think Giroux and Voracek are completely capable of scoring points and staying strong on the defense. I just think the team struggled as a whole and those two took it upon themeselves to push extra hard at creating offense cause nobody else could.
- GOA88

Imagine Giroux playing in St Louis. For Hitch. Just saying

Right, I understand, but its actually the same, no one would deal or accept a player with stone hands cherry picking, if Giroux and Voracek become 60 point players a year playing way more 2 way when they are capable of getting way more production, yes it helps the team but, no one is paying Giroux over $8 mill a year to produce less points.
Transition game getting better would help the total team function/attack.
- puckhead17

If their transition game can get back to what it was there is no doubt in my mind Giroux is scoring 90-100 pts as well as remaining one of the best 2-way players in the league and Voracek could be looking at 75-85 pts. It all starts with the defenders getting the puck out and up he ice quickly.

- jak521

OT, but this josh harris 6ers-devils thing really bothers me. not that i give a (frank) about the 6ers (although i used to love them)...this is a massive violation.
- hammarby31

Opening night for the Sixers, the first 10k fans in attendance receive an 8x10 Scott Stevens autograph.

A negative comment and disagreement from you? How original!
- puckhead17

There wasn't anything negative in my comment. And as for point production causing a players defensive play to suffer. Just look at Datsyuk and Toews as examples. Both Voracek, and especially Giroux, are capable of playing much better defensively, while maintaining a point a game or better offensive production.

If their transition game can get back to what it was there is no doubt in my mind Giroux is scoring 90-100 pts as well as remaining one of the best 2-way players in the league and Voracek could be looking at 75-85 pts. It all starts with the defenders getting the puck out and up he ice quickly.
- GOA88

Yes and there lies another issue, our defenders.

Imagine Giroux playing in St Louis. For Hitch. Just saying
- puckhead17

He would fit in just fine and that team would finally have a line to produce points, Backes isnt anywhere near the caliber of Giroux

A negative comment and disagreement from you? How original!
- puckhead17

He is right though... all it means is that the player may have shifted his attention.

Voracek has the ability to play sound 2 way hockey and still be offensively dominant... It will just take more work.

Secondly, I thought Voracek took a little bit of a backward step in his defensive game at five-on-five last season as his offensive production picked up.

I have a hard time killing Voracek for this because this team seemed to go through stretches where they couldn't buy a goal unless they had the power play.

You hate to see him become a full on cherry picker, but on the other hand, you don't want to stifle him, either.

Yes and there lies another issue, our defenders.
- puckhead17

Streit should help the transition game, thats what we got him for.

If their transition game can get back to what it was there is no doubt in my mind Giroux is scoring 90-100 pts as well as remaining one of the best 2-way players in the league and Voracek could be looking at 75-85 pts. It all starts with the defenders getting the puck out and up he ice quickly.
- GOA88

I disagree that Giroux is one of the best 2-way players in the game. He is one of the most offensively gifted players, and he isnt terrible defensively, but calling him one of the best two way players because he puts up a lot of points just isnt accurate.

There wasn't anything negative in my comment. And as for point production causing a players defensive play to suffer. Just look at Datsyuk and Toews as examples. Both Voracek, and especially Giroux, are capable of playing much better defensively, while maintaining a point a game or better offensive production.
- MJL

The players you mention are never or rarely in the top echelon of production
Datsyuk could produce more than he does as well as Zetterberg, its the defensive system that has them producing less.
Elias's game took a big hit production wise in earlier years because of the defensive system, (yes they won cups i know)
do you see David Backes scoring more and more?
Etc