Richard Cloutier: Schultz and Yakupov are for Real

Hemsky is another guy benefitting from this lockout. He's a ppg player so far in Parbudice

Oh my god, did anyone see "Gotta Grudge" on The Score? Where do they find these loud-mouth wieners? It's gotta be fake... I know these guys aren't supposed to be professional fighters, but dear lord... They're embarrassing. I'm sure my grandmother could kick the sh1t out of 98% of these guys. Please tell me this is fake...

One point forgotten in your tribunal was the fact that Katz wanted 92% total annual profit for a 35 yr mortgage or lease that worked out relatively speaking for peanuts per annum...that for very small dollars devoted to the start and total building costs...and not to forget annual operating costs... Katz is benefiting more from this proposed project...and holding oiler fans hostage! Pretty damn good for fans that have sold rexall since its existence!

It's going to end up costing the city more to build and maintain their own rink than it would cost just to work with Katz now.
- Maxbone

Yeah, but you also have to consider what Katz wants... Revenue from everything (even non Oiler related) 11 months of the year. Naming rights (valued at 3 million a year)... $20 million in advertising over the next 10 years... $6 million per year to pay for operating costs, and casino rights? Give me a break.

An Edmonton owned arena is the way to go. Allow Katz to hold games at cost (hell, maybe even a little below cost), and let him keep all revenues from those games... If he doesn't like that, he can go screw himself. His previous offer is a joke.

One point forgotten in your tribunal was the fact that Katz wanted 92% total annual profit for a 35 yr mortgage or lease that worked out relatively speaking for peanuts per annum...that for very small dollars devoted to the start and total building costs...and not to forget annual operating costs... Katz is benefiting more from this proposed project...and holding oiler fans hostage! Pretty damn good for fans that have sold rexall since its existence!
- saskoil21

Exactly.

go Teubert!!!! thats what the oilers need... guys that don't give a (frank) and pound anyone who (frank)s with da boyz

go Teubert!!!! thats what the oilers need... guys that don't give a (frank) and pound anyone who (frank)s with da boyz
- Killbot460

Yeaaaahhh!!!!!!

How do the other city owned arenas throughout the NHL operate regarding their teams? Do they keep all profits from their games only and the city keeps revenue from concerts and other venues?

Dallas - American Airlines is city owned and funded.
Florida - BB&T is city owned and funded.
Nashville - Bridgestone Arena is city owned and funded.
Pittsburgh - Consol Energy Center is city owned.
Columbus - Nationwide Arena is city owned and funded.

Etc etc etc...

How do the other city owned arenas throughout the NHL operate regarding their teams? Do they keep all profits from their games only and the city keeps revenue from concerts and other venues?

Dallas - American Airlines is city owned and funded.
Florida - BB&T is city owned and funded.
Nashville - Bridgestone Arena is city owned and funded.
Pittsburgh - Consol Energy Center is city owned.
Columbus - Nationwide Arena is city owned and funded.

Etc etc etc...
- LeftCoaster

I would feel better about this list if Dallas, Florida, Nashville and Columbus weren't all train wrecks financially.

Working with Katz to build a rink is not going to work. He wants the best of both sides, and it's frustrating to listen to. It's either gotta go one way or the other. Either the city gives Katz the land(they can do it really cheap too, idc), and he foots the entire bill and gets exactly what he wants for his rink, or the city builds it and he can rent from there. Personally I'm kinda happy they're not working with him, all his demands are the reason that building it has been slowed.

I would feel better about this list if Dallas, Florida, Nashville and Columbus weren't all train wrecks financially.
- Maxbone

The problem with the Oilers (Katz) building his own arena, is it would probably kill the Oilers financially. See the New Jersey Devils, I think they had to contribute nearly $200 million to the project to make it work and it's hurt Jeffrey Vancerbeek financially. To the point where he's almost lost control of the team to creditors.

Didnt the Vancouver owner build his own arena then have to sell the team?

The problem with the Oilers (Katz) building his own arena, is it would probably kill the Oilers financially. See the New Jersey Devils, I think they had to contribute nearly $200 million to the project to make it work and it's hurt Jeffrey Vancerbeek financially. To the point where he's almost lost control of the team to creditors.
- LeftCoaster

It gets painful to read comments like this. The arena under the Katz deal would be owned by the city. Katz has already contributed some money up-front to the building of it. Financing would be covered by the city, not Katz. Katz under the deal would have paid the city his share of the cost annually. It would have been an amount that wouldn't have remotely hurt the Oilers or his profitability.

Besides, if Katz went tits up, he'd sell the team, the arena would still be there, and the city would be able to negotiate a new lease deal with the new owner. Under the Katz plan, he wouldn't have owned the building. The Katz Group would have been responsible for managing it. There's a difference.

It gets painful to read comments like this. The arena under the Katz deal would be owned by the city. Katz has already contributed some money up-front to the building of it. Financing would be covered by the city, not Katz. Katz under the deal would have paid the city his share of the cost annually. It would have been an amount that wouldn't have remotely hurt the Oilers or his profitability.

Besides, if Katz went tits up, he'd sell the team, the arena would still be there, and the city would be able to negotiate a new lease deal with the new owner. Under the Katz plan, he wouldn't have owned the building. The Katz Group would have been responsible for managing it. There's a difference.
- Maxbone

You misinterpreted my statements or dismissed them altogether for whatever reason, what I'm saying is...if Katz were forced to go it alone, he simply couldn't do that. I'm not talking about the former deal they had what so ever, where do you even get that I'm making comments on the FORMER deal? I'm saying for all the people who say "build your own building" because you're wealthy, it just doesn't work that way.

Didnt the Vancouver owner build his own arena then have to sell the team?
- andymaury

Yes, Arthur Griffiths built GM Place but it broke him. Thus he had to sell the team. The Canucks are one of the few teams that does own and operate their own building though, probably why they're one of the wealthiest teams in the league presently.

It gets painful to read comments like this. The arena under the Katz deal would be owned by the city. Katz has already contributed some money up-front to the building of it. Financing would be covered by the city, not Katz. Katz under the deal would have paid the city his share of the cost annually. It would have been an amount that wouldn't have remotely hurt the Oilers or his profitability.

Besides, if Katz went tits up, he'd sell the team, the arena would still be there, and the city would be able to negotiate a new lease deal with the new owner. Under the Katz plan, he wouldn't have owned the building. The Katz Group would have been responsible for managing it. There's a difference.
- Maxbone

Which equals Katz raping the city. What was his contribution? $15 million per year, correct? $15 million per year for 35 years... In ten years from now $15 million will be worth severely less than it is now... In years 10-35, $15 million per year for revenues on everything for 11 months of the year (even non-Oiler events/concerts/trade shows) is nothing. He'd be raping the city. Add in the other crap he wants (naming rights which value will undoubtedly go up from the current evaluation of $3 million per year... $20 million in advertising over the next ten years... $6 million in operating costs... casino rights)... and the whole deal is worthy of a Scanner's Head Explosion. Sure the $6 million for operating costs he wants per year will be devalued, much like his $15 million contribution, but he's still (once again) raping the city. Katz should be ashamed of himself.

The problem with the Oilers (Katz) building his own arena, is it would probably kill the Oilers financially. See the New Jersey Devils, I think they had to contribute nearly $200 million to the project to make it work and it's hurt Jeffrey Vancerbeek financially. To the point where he's almost lost control of the team to creditors.
- LeftCoaster

Agreed. The last 4 arenas that were publicly funded in Canada each have new owners for pennies on the dollar.
Ottawa-Bryden went Bankrupt.
Vancouver- Griffiths went Bankrupt
Montreal- Molsens sold it out to rid themselves of the ghastly mortgage.
Toronto(yes I said Toronto)- MLSE- ended up being a trow in the in buy out by the OTE.

Which equals Katz raping the city. What was his contribution? $15 million per year, correct? $15 million per year for 35 years... In ten years from now $15 million will be worth severely less than it is now... In years 10-35, $15 million per year for revenues on everything for 11 months of the year (even non-Oiler events/concerts/trade shows) is nothing. He'd be raping the city. Add in the other crap he wants (naming rights which value will undoubtedly go up from the current evaluation of $3 million per year... $20 million in advertising over the next ten years... $6 million in operating costs... casino rights)... and the whole deal is worthy of a Scanner's Head Explosion. Sure the $6 million for operating costs he wants per year will be devalued, much like his $15 million contribution, but he's still (once again) raping the city. Katz should be ashamed of himself.
- laughs2907

Laughs your making me laugh. Your a smart guy and I know your being sarcastic. You being University educated and all would know the benifits an NHL team has on a Canadian City is basically like a money tree. I am not talking the profit of the Team or the Arena but the surrounding benifits like money spent in the city from visitors to businessses that pay taxes eg Resturants, hotels, bars/lounges, has more value to the city than the actual team.
Why do you think Quebec City wants back in and Winnipeg got back in and gave the richest man in Canada a non-compete clause and 12 million dollars a year in subsidy. They prolly make it back 2-3 times over in addittional money brought into the city.

Don't forget how significant the value of our loonie has become over the last several years. I wonder how profitable Katz will be once/if the loonie becomes 85 cents US. We cannot assume that the Canadian dollar will be this strong going forward. A weak loonie means Canadian teams suffer more. I agree with MB, better to work out a deal with Katz than without. A 35-yr no movement clause is Edmonton's safety net.

Don't forget how significant the value of our loonie has become over the last several years. I wonder how profitable Katz will be once/if the loonie becomes 85 cents US. We cannot assume that the Canadian dollar will be this strong going forward. A weak loonie means Canadian teams suffer more. I agree with MB, better to work out a deal with Katz than without. A 35-yr no movement clause is Edmonton's safety net.
- eekloond

Katz is essentially a legalized drug pusher. Anyone with doubts about his continued financial stability need not worry. People LOVE their pills.

Agreed though. Once Katz manages to insert his tampon a direction other than sideways and the city realizes that Edmonton s a poophole and desperately needs something like this, a deal will get done and it will be better if both parties split the cost.

Anyone thinking either party should fund it 100% is stupid.

Don't forget how significant the value of our loonie has become over the last several years. I wonder how profitable Katz will be once/if the loonie becomes 85 cents US. We cannot assume that the Canadian dollar will be this strong going forward. A weak loonie means Canadian teams suffer more. I agree with MB, better to work out a deal with Katz than without. A 35-yr no movement clause is Edmonton's safety net.
- eekloond

I see no indications of the greenback making any sort of a comeback anytime soon. I think since our dollar suffered for so long people think it's inevitable that it eventually will crash back. As long as fiscal management stays smart and no rash financial decisions are made, our dollar can remain strong for a long time.

Richard Cloutier: Schultz and Yakupov are for Real
- Maxbone

You mean they're not halograms?

Still recycling old crappy blogs eh?

You mean they're not halograms?

Still recycling old crappy blogs eh?
- Fakepartofme

*holograms

"I continue to find it curious that in black-and-white Alberta, there seem to be only two ways to make a project work: entirely with public money (Commonwealth Stadium, Rexall Place, etc.), but with no individual profiting unduly (whatever that means, because both Pocklington and the EIG had sweetheart rent arrangements); or for a rich individual/corporation to cover it all. It seems a simple prism through which to see the world. For the entrepreneur, it's not merely about the cost of a building, it's about the business case in the long haul. Two different things.

The quid pro quo for the city is largely in the quality of life boost a downtown arena can provide, in concert with a rich variety of other urban elements (LRT, existing office towers, RAM, shopping, restaurants, bars, night clubs, AGA, city hall, libraries, cinemas).

For many in Edmonton, the focus is unswervingly on cost, though, never on benefit. This continues to baffle me. Are people here so ascetic they think a sterile, unstimulating downtown is the best they can hope for? Perhaps a city whose downtown has been moribund for so many decades has no faith that anything could help improve it, whether it's an arena, an arena and a large museum, or an arena, a large museum, an art gallery, and a whole cluster of other projects housed in the city's downtown improvement plan.

It does take time and it does take many, many elements, including lots of residents downtown. Edmonton has a long way to go, owing to decades of neglect. The arena is not the alpha and omega. But, along with other venues already mentioned, it's a good start. Since cost is your fixation, how would you calculate the cost to Edmonton for having such a brutal downtown for so many years? What is a reasonable cost to fix it? And how should that cost be borne?"