MJL will love this one (maybe). It isn't the talent level, but the roles and the mix - that is how I am forming my conclusions.

Renberg wasn't the best player in the world but worked well with LeClair and Lindros. With Harts UFC attitude around the net and G's playmaking ability, I think it is imperative that we have someone that can shoot the puck towards the net. I think we all know this is Voracek's weak point.

On a line with Briere and Schenn - he can be more creative and assist those guys in scoring goals.

I like Simmonds and Read on a third line. Total pain in the butt line to play against but it can also score goals.

Just my opinion. You are entitled to yours, and maybe the truth is in the middle.

It's a pleasure discussing with you though - you are always a gentleman, as am I.

Cheers!

-Gent
- Daman

MJL will love this one (maybe). It isn't the talent level, but the roles and the mix - that is how I am forming my conclusions.

Renberg wasn't the best player in the world but worked well with LeClair and Lindros. With Harts UFC attitude around the net and G's playmaking ability, I think it is imperative that we have someone that can shoot the puck towards the net. I think we all know this is Voracek's weak point.

On a line with Briere and Schenn - he can be more creative and assist those guys in scoring goals.

I like Simmonds and Read on a third line. Total pain in the butt line to play against but it can also score goals.

Just my opinion. You are entitled to yours, and maybe the truth is in the middle.

It's a pleasure discussing with you though - you are always a gentleman, as am I.

Cheers!

-Gent
- Daman

IMO, Renberg was a better all-around player than LeClair until the injuries. People forget that Renberg's point-per-game average was virtually identical with/without playing with Lindros. He was just as effective playing with Rod Brind'Amour or even Anatoli Semenov when Lindros was injured or lines juggled.

Absolutely... and we all saw how well they did last year.

I think there are three teams.. LA, Anaheim, Chicago.. that MAY fit the bill off the top of my head.

LA didnt really..

They had Brown-Kopitar-Williams... Williams to me isnt a #1 winger.. The guy is never healthy and hasnt cracked 60 points since 07.

Anaheim is the ONLY team that there isnt an argument against.

Chicago when they use Kane-Towes-Hossa is also there.
- jak521

I don;t even really think Brown is a true number one winger, either. He played great in the playoffs, but he's been a 25 G, 50 Point guy more than anything

Absolutely... and we all saw how well they did last year.

I think there are three teams.. LA, Anaheim, Chicago.. that MAY fit the bill off the top of my head.

LA didnt really..

They had Brown-Kopitar-Williams... Williams to me isnt a #1 winger.. The guy is never healthy and hasnt cracked 60 points since 07.

Anaheim is the ONLY team that there isnt an argument against.

Chicago when they use Kane-Towes-Hossa is also there.
- jak521

If you didn't say it I would've.

I don;t even really think Brown is a true number one winger, either. He played great in the playoffs, but he's been a 25 G, 50 Point guy more than anything
- Jsaquella

The criteria is skewed. Define a true number one. There's more to the game than just putting up points.

MJL will love this one (maybe). It isn't the talent level, but the roles and the mix - that is how I am forming my conclusions.

Renberg wasn't the best player in the world but worked well with LeClair and Lindros. With Harts UFC attitude around the net and G's playmaking ability, I think it is imperative that we have someone that can shoot the puck towards the net. I think we all know this is Voracek's weak point.

On a line with Briere and Schenn - he can be more creative and assist those guys in scoring goals.

I like Simmonds and Read on a third line. Total pain in the butt line to play against but it can also score goals.

Just my opinion. You are entitled to yours, and maybe the truth is in the middle.

It's a pleasure discussing with you though - you are always a gentleman, as am I.

Cheers!

-Gent
- Daman

Sorry I must have misunderstood you. I thought you meant he isnt capable of being on the first line when you said "Cek is a 2nd line player".

I think.. when we look at how successful that top line was last year... that Voracek makes logical sense. He is probably our best all around forward after Giroux.. and bunch of the players around the league have said it as well. He is very similar to Jagr in the way he plays. He uses his size and puck possession ability to create space for other guys. Why was that Hartnell was able to get so open so often last year? I personally see it as Jagr's puck possession being so captivating. When you have a guy that is virtually impossible to knock of the puck, and can generate a cycle game nearly by himself... opposing players in the d-zone start to watch the puck... which allows Hartnell or G that split second (which is all it takes btw) to find that open slot. Also.. Voracek had one fewer goal than Jagr last year... and playing on G's wing all year will likely see him surpass Jagr's output.

I don;t even really think Brown is a true number one winger, either. He played great in the playoffs, but he's been a 25 G, 50 Point guy more than anything
- Jsaquella

Exactly... and if he were on our team ppl would be calling him really a 3rd line checker who puts up some good O numbers.

IMO, Renberg was a better all-around player than LeClair until the injuries. People forget that Renberg's point-per-game average was virtually identical with/without playing with Lindros. He was just as effective playing with Rod Brind'Amour or even Anatoli Semenov when Lindros was injured or lines juggled.
- bmeltzer

Not even going to argue that. My point is that Renberg had a certain role and was a certain type of player, and that formed the basis of a good line (honestly, one of the best lines to watch IMO). LeClair was very good around the net, and Lindros was almost good at everything offensively.

I don't think I am a complete idiot here. It seems like the Flyers are trying like hell to find Giroux a top notch scorer to play with on the RW (i.e. Nash, Ryan, Parise).

Time will tell.

Exactly... and if he were on our team ppl would be calling him really a 3rd line checker who puts up some good O numbers.
- jak521

I disagree. He is like Hartnell for the Kings.

The criteria is skewed. Define a true number one. There's more to the game than just putting up points.
- stveshdy

That's a big part of the criteria, to be fair. Brown would certainly be in the conversation of "Bona Fide 1st line players", especially in today's NHL. Is Scott Hartnell a bona fide first liner? If so, then Brown is. Similar stats and style of play.

The criteria is skewed. Define a true number one. There's more to the game than just putting up points.
- stveshdy

Not that I disagree.. but when thinking of it in general sense.. it does have to do with point totals.

I disagree. He is like Hartnell for the Kings.
- stveshdy

I wouldnt say Hartnell is a true #1 forward... Then again, I dont believe in the antiquated 1-2-3-4 line call.

I also think that Brown is a much different player than Hartnell.

Just your average, testicularly challenged troll job.
- Jsaquella

post of the day!

I wouldn't mind seeing Arnott come in and play 3rd line duty as long as no other moves are made. I'm starting to get nervous at the price Weber is going to cost. I think at this point I would rather not go after him. I can easily see Schenn, Schenn, Voracek, and 2 firsts being the going rate, and I dont want to give that much up.

Hartnell-Giroux-Briere
Schenn-Couturier-Simmonds
Read-Arnott-Voracek
Wellwood-Talbot-Fedotenko

Not even going to argue that. My point is that Renberg had a certain role and was a certain type of player, and that formed the basis of a good line (honestly, one of the best lines to watch IMO). LeClair was very good around the net, and Lindros was almost good at everything offensively.

I don't think I am a complete idiot here. It seems like the Flyers are trying like hell to find Giroux a top notch scorer to play with on the RW (i.e. Nash, Ryan, Parise).

Time will tell.
- Daman

Teams always wanna better themselves... there is no doubting that.

That's a big part of the criteria, to be fair. Brown would certainly be in the conversation of "Bona Fide 1st line players", especially in today's NHL. Is Scott Hartnell a bona fide first liner? If so, then Brown is. Similar stats and style of play.
- Jsaquella

I think both are. Unless you are playing in Russia.


We can debate all day (and we will), but I am suggesting that the Flyers are making efforts to fill the hole that I have suggested. Even if you disagree with my opinions, I am willing to bet that a winger will obtained before the deadline.

-Mr. G from NJ

I wouldnt say Hartnell is a true #1 forward... Then again, I dont believe in the antiquated 1-2-3-4 line call.

I also think that Brown is a much different player than Hartnell.
- jak521

They're both tough to play against. So aren't there some similarities?

Not that I disagree.. but when thinking of it in general sense.. it does have to do with point totals.
- jak521

Okay. This is where we differ. Because I would take a Datysuk everyday over a Stamkos. If these players were the same age who would you take to lead your team? Stamoks puts up points but he doesnt do the things Datysuk does as a true number one. I look for an all around game.

Sorry I must have misunderstood you. I thought you meant he isnt capable of being on the first line when you said "Cek is a 2nd line player".

I think.. when we look at how successful that top line was last year... that Voracek makes logical sense. He is probably our best all around forward after Giroux.. and bunch of the players around the league have said it as well. He is very similar to Jagr in the way he plays. He uses his size and puck possession ability to create space for other guys. Why was that Hartnell was able to get so open so often last year? I personally see it as Jagr's puck possession being so captivating. When you have a guy that is virtually impossible to knock of the puck, and can generate a cycle game nearly by himself... opposing players in the d-zone start to watch the puck... which allows Hartnell or G that split second (which is all it takes btw) to find that open slot. Also.. Voracek had one fewer goal than Jagr last year... and playing on G's wing all year will likely see him surpass Jagr's output.
- jak521

They're both tough to play against. So aren't there some similarities?
- Daman

Talbot and Rinaldo are tough to play against. Jordin Tootoo is tough to play against.

Hartnell plays a different offensive game then Brown. The big similarity is that they both are physical guys who have some offense.

Shane Doan's agent has confirmed that the Pittsburgh Penguins have presented his client with an offer. Doan has interest in joining the Penguins, where he would play alongside either Sidney Crosby or Evgeni Malkin. The San Jose Sharks are also still in the running and we can't rule out the possibility of him ultimately re-signing with the Phoenix Coyotes. Beyond that, the Detroit Red Wings, Vancouver Canucks, and Los Angeles Kings might all be potential destinations for Doan.
Source: Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

Okay. This is where we differ. Because I would take a Datysuk everyday over a Stamkos. If these players were the same age who would you take to lead your team? Stamoks puts up points but he doesnt do the things Datysuk does as a true number one. I look for an all around game.
- stveshdy

I wouldnt argue..

Seeing how Datsyuk has posted point totals of 87,87, 97, 97.. I would just merely suggest that he shows how a first liner gets that nomination. He is basically the best d-man in the game who just happens to be a ppg player to boot. If he was putting up point totals around 35-50 every year.. and in his 12 season... would you still want him on your top line when you have better offensive players?

Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings:Briere, Arnott, Scurko
- bmeltzer

Not a big fan of bringing in Arnott... he's badly in decline on both sides of the puck, merely average at the dot, has lost what little physical edge he ever had, and probably will command a healthy chunk of change anyway. He's a good leader in the room but Couturier and Schenn are much more worthy of the icetime at this point.

I'd love to see them give Ben Holmstrom a chance to anchor the 4th-line, but that would require them to be willing to waive Shelley in order for that to happen. Holmstrom's is built for the role -- steady on defense, good on faceoffs, plays the body, has leadership qualities, accepts and thrives in a limited role.

Speaking of Blues UFA's strangely left on the open market... it's kind of crazy that Carlo Colaiacovo is still available considering the amount of openings out there and the kind of money that has gone to the dmen that have been signed. He handled top-pairing 5v5 minutes and his stats were fantastic, including all the important puck-possession metrics for a two-way dman.

I hope they do it and gut the team lol......weber cant win a cup alone...Hell he wasnt able to do it with sutter.
- Philly1980

Ryan can't either, dude....

I wouldnt argue..

Seeing how Datsyuk has posted point totals of 87,87, 97, 97.. I would just merely suggest that he shows how a first liner gets that nomination. He is basically the best d-man in the game who just happens to be a ppg player to boot. If he was putting up point totals around 35-50 every year.. and in his 12 season... would you still want him on your top line when you have better offensive players?
- jak521

I look at the Boston Bruins for example. They have Krejci who isnt a powerhouse scorer. They could trade him to Anaheim for Ryan (which has been rumored). Are they going to do that to upgrade with a better scorer?

A lot depends on how your team is built and what style of play your coach has.