That was why they addressed the defense and goaltending, to help hide his deficiencies.

But looking at Briere's CORSI, Fenwick and other numbers tell us the balance the Flyers get from him is about equal. His bad defense doesn't hurt more than his offensive production helps.
- Jsaquella

Look if his ppg drops by .1 and he can eliminate giving the other team so many golden opportunites, I'd be livid. At this point I'm resigned with the fact that perhaps a different, not necessarily better supporting cast makes his flaws less apparent.

And our cap will be cool in that trade scenario? I'm getting closer to being done with this offseason and finding out if the flyers d can move the puck out of the zone
- Just5

Flyers have guys who move puck well kimmo Coburn Gus and schenn will get better. He will be a better dman then carle, albeit a different kind of dman, but a better overall one

Flyers have guys who move puck well kimmo Coburn Gus and schenn will get better. He will be s better dman then carle, albeit a different kind of dman, but a better overall one
- Deasr1

I don't think Kimo's getting much better at this stage in his career, but otherwise yea.

I don't think Kimo's getting much better at this stage in his career, but otherwise yea.
- JoeRussomanno

I think he can move the puck just as well. His body is breaking down but skills are still there. I think
Hatcher will do wonders for schenn's game

Okay I don't where I never acknowledged that he scores a ton of goals in the playoffs. I'm just pointing out he's a liability in 5 on 5 play. There's no getting around that. In the playoffs that will kill you and it has hurt the Flyers, there's nothing irrational about me saying that. Aside from the blackhawks you typically don't see a team that plays so wide open winning many cups these days. Defense trumps offense, maybe that can be debated, but when I look at the Cup winners of late it's hard to say other wise. Even the Penguins learned that the hard way this year.

As for what Bill said, that is one of the very few times I disagree. I'd rather a guy that doesn't give up much 5 on 5 and scores little vs a guy that scores a lot and gives up a lot.

If you read my other posts where I pointed out that perhaps this coaching staff isn't using him properly I'd say that totally debunks your accusation of me being totally Irrational and hating the player. I don't hate him, just he's not my cup of tea when it comes to players. That's a far cry from hatred.
- JoeRussomanno

I think you're being irrational for getting on him about playing better defense. He is what he is, and again, I'd argue that the good outweighs the bad. The Flyers have had far more success in the playoffs with him than failures. He is a huge reason why they even went to the Cup finals...speaking of the finals, they were the most successful then when they had great team defense. It wasn't a matter of Briere playing better D or not. Even if he plays better D, it's not going to do much. I just don't see him killing the team defensively like you do. If he was costing them games left and right, I'd agree with you.

Flyers have guys who move puck well kimmo Coburn Gus and schenn will get better. He will be a better dman then carle, albeit a different kind of dman, but a better overall one
- Deasr1

Hopefully. Last year he was awful in that regard from what I saw. I mean when the puck was dumped in the corner. He was not getting it out bad. He has a long long way to go if he has aspirations along the lines of Carle as far as puck moving goes. The kid can lay some wood, that's it for now

I think you're being irrational for getting on him about playing better defense. He is what he is, and again, I'd argue that the good outweighs the bad. The Flyers have had far more success in the playoffs with him than failures. He is a huge reason why they even went to the Cup finals...speaking of the finals, they were the most successful then when they had great team defense. It wasn't a matter of Briere playing better D or not. Even if he plays better D, it's not going to do much. I just don't see him killing the team defensively like you do. If he was costing them games left and right, I'd agree with you.
- feelingkettle

I think you're being irrational for getting on him about playing better defense. He is what he is, and again, I'd argue that the good outweighs the bad. The Flyers have had far more success in the playoffs with him than failures. He is a huge reason why they even went to the Cup finals...speaking of the finals, they were the most successful then when they had great team defense. It wasn't a matter of Briere playing better D or not. Even if he plays better D, it's not going to do much. I just don't see him killing the team defensively like you do. If he was costing them games left and right, I'd agree with you.
- feelingkettle

I'll put it to you this way, he was better defensively before the lavy years despite a really good 2010 run. He wasn't great in that aspect pre 2010 but it wasn't so lopsided as it is now. You guys can say how you don't care about +/- all you want but it's a legitimate stat and people much wiser than any of us determined so by making it an officially recorded one. I didn't read or hear ANYONE objecting against it when it was used to validate Mark Howe getting in the HOF. Back to Briere the last two seasons, have been pretty ugly.

It just so happens, the years were Briere's +/-'s have been better the Flyers have gotten deeper into the playoffs, so there's something to that.

I don't recall who said it but a few days ago someone said the Phillies would not receive compensation for Hamels because compensation is no longer in the CBA. Not necessarily true.

Major league free agent compensation will be completely revised in 2013, with a team having to offer its former players who became free agents the average of the top 125 contracts -- currently about $12.4 million -- to receive draft-pick compensation if a player signs with a new team. It eliminates the statistical formula that had been in place since the 1981 strike settlement.

I don't recall who said it but a few days ago someone said the Phillies would not receive compensation for Hamels because compensation is no longer in the CBA. Not necessarily true.

Major league free agent compensation will be completely revised in 2013, with a team having to offer its former players who became free agents the average of the top 125 contracts -- currently about $12.4 million -- to receive draft-pick compensation if a player signs with a new team. It eliminates the statistical formula that had been in place since the 1981 strike settlement.
- nastyflyergirl

If they don't resign him mark my words it'll be ugly.

I don't recall who said it but a few days ago someone said the Phillies would not receive compensation for Hamels because compensation is no longer in the CBA. Not necessarily true.

Major league free agent compensation will be completely revised in 2013, with a team having to offer its former players who became free agents the average of the top 125 contracts -- currently about $12.4 million -- to receive draft-pick compensation if a player signs with a new team. It eliminates the statistical formula that had been in place since the 1981 strike settlement.
- nastyflyergirl

Hamels would have to stay with the Phillies the entire Season for them to receive any compensation for losing him to Free Agency. If they trade him, they get nothing.

Hamels would have to stay with the Phillies the entire Season for them to receive any compensation for losing him to Free Agency. If they trade him, they get nothing.
- MJL

well, obviously.

I don't think Kimo's getting much better at this stage in his career, but otherwise yea.
- JoeRussomanno

I think he meant Schenn would get better.

I'll put it to you this way, he was better defensively before the lavy years despite a really good 2010 run. He wasn't great in that aspect pre 2010 but it wasn't so lopsided as it is now. You guys can say how you don't care about +/- all you want but it's a legitimate stat and people much wiser than any of us determined so by making it an officially recorded one. I didn't read or hear ANYONE objecting against it when it was used to validate Mark Howe getting in the HOF. Back to Briere the last two seasons, have been pretty ugly.

It just so happens, the years were Briere's +/-'s have been better the Flyers have gotten deeper into the playoffs, so there's something to that.
- JoeRussomanno

I seem to recall he was a -23 or something here his first season before Lavy. Anyway, you still seem to be focusing on a part of a player's game that he was never really good at, and never hurt the team in the playoffs, as in losing them games or series. I will still say that he is far more likely to win a team a game than lose it.

+/- is a weird stat, and I don't know how reliable it is for rating defense, but I know that Mike Green sucks at defense and has had good +/- in the past. I use corgi stats, anyway.

If they don't resign him mark my words it'll be ugly.
- JoeRussomanno

I don't recall who said it but a few days ago someone said the Phillies would not receive compensation for Hamels because compensation is no longer in the CBA. Not necessarily true.

Major league free agent compensation will be completely revised in 2013, with a team having to offer its former players who became free agents the average of the top 125 contracts -- currently about $12.4 million -- to receive draft-pick compensation if a player signs with a new team. It eliminates the statistical formula that had been in place since the 1981 strike settlement.
- nastyflyergirl

Also, if the Phils trade him, the team acquiring him does not get compensation when he becomes a free agent.

well, obviously.
- OrangeBlack27

Now that I think about it, it is obvious. One of the beat writers made that statement. And I'm not quite sure what it was based on, but for some reason there was a distinction made.

I'll put it to you this way, he was better defensively before the lavy years despite a really good 2010 run. He wasn't great in that aspect pre 2010 but it wasn't so lopsided as it is now. You guys can say how you don't care about +/- all you want but it's a legitimate stat and people much wiser than any of us determined so by making it an officially recorded one. I didn't read or hear ANYONE objecting against it when it was used to validate Mark Howe getting in the HOF. Back to Briere the last two seasons, have been pretty ugly.

It just so happens, the years were Briere's +/-'s have been better the Flyers have gotten deeper into the playoffs, so there's something to that.
- JoeRussomanno

There was a lot more to validate Mark Howe than +/-. It's a very contextual stat, one that I feel you're focusing way too hard on.

Also, if the Phils trade him, the team acquiring him does not get compensation when becomes a free agent.
- bradleyc4

That's probably what I was confused about.

There was a lot more to validate Mark Howe than +/-. It's a very contextual stat, one that I feel you're focusing way too hard on.
- BulliesPhan87

+/- is a very misunderstood stat. Many feel it is not very useful. When actually it is. If used properly.

I just saw the tweet from Ek.

New post coming.

Be on the lookout.

You won't believe it, but more twists and turns coming.

-Gent from NJ

He had a big first game against NJ but the rest of the way, not much else. Like I said get a team that plays tight and they make us pay for it when he's out there.
- JoeRussomanno

Joe, in Game 3, it was Briere who set up Schenn on the goal that gave the team a 1-0 lead, set up the waived-off JVR goal and scored the goal that sent the game to overtime.

In Game 5, Briere triggered the sequence that led to Talbot giving the Flyers a 1-0 lead.

Add that to what he did in Game 1 and I think that's doing plenty offensively in a short series.

I just saw the tweet from Ek.

New post coming.

Be on the lookout.

You won't believe it, but more twists and turns coming.

-Gent from NJ
- Daman

Hamels would have to stay with the Phillies the entire Season for them to receive any compensation for losing him to Free Agency. If they trade him, they get nothing.
- MJL

well yeah I know that. I am just saying it was mentioned they wouldn't get compensation for him with the new rules if he leaves for free agency but that is not accurate.

I'll put it to you this way, he was better defensively before the lavy years despite a really good 2010 run. He wasn't great in that aspect pre 2010 but it wasn't so lopsided as it is now. You guys can say how you don't care about +/- all you want but it's a legitimate stat and people much wiser than any of us determined so by making it an officially recorded one. I didn't read or hear ANYONE objecting against it when it was used to validate Mark Howe getting in the HOF. Back to Briere the last two seasons, have been pretty ugly.

It just so happens, the years were Briere's +/-'s have been better the Flyers have gotten deeper into the playoffs, so there's something to that.
- JoeRussomanno

+/- is a valid stat, but it's also flawed because it's a team stat. One great example of overvaluing +/- is Rod Brind'Amour. Brind'Amour finished his NHL career as a -39. Nobody here is likely to say he was a poor defensive player, especially since he won the Selke twice.

Danny Briere is a -5 over his NHL career.