it's just posturing. first offer is always some silly low-ball.
- OrangeBlack27

hope so man....theres posturing and then there are slaps to the face....I personally dont give a (frank) if teams like phoenix go under. No one there cares about hockey and they never will. Why should teams like the flyers have to give up stars and players when the market here is larger and more competitive....If its not working in one location Bettman than move the (frank)ing teams to somewhere where it should. Im tired of my ticket money going to supporting welfare teams....

As reported on NBC several weeks ago (by WIP legend Howard Eskin), Anaheim was asking for Gus, Read, and a 1st. The Flyers, as reported, would have to step up and meet that offer.

We are all biased to some extent, but Voracek, Read, Bourdon, and a pick are too much. We will never know the truth, but I am sure the teams are being patient at this point in the year. This crap may drag out for several, several, months.

-Jersey Gent
- Daman

I would make that deal in a second for Ryan. Thats a fair deal imo.

As reported on NBC several weeks ago (by WIP legend Howard Eskin), Anaheim was asking for Gus, Read, and a 1st. The Flyers, as reported, would have to step up and meet that offer.

We are all biased to some extent, but Voracek, Read, Bourdon, and a pick are too much. We will never know the truth, but I am sure the teams are being patient at this point in the year. This crap may drag out for several, several, months.

-Jersey Gent
- Daman

I'd do Gus, Read and a 1st. Did Anaheim really ask for that or is that what the Flyers initially offered?

What is the proposal?
- RooNosHockey

Source http://www.ontheforecheck...e-free-agency-negotiation

Reduce Player Share to 46%

Like an opening jab to the nose, this is sure to draw the most attention, and is easily the biggest issue on the table. Currently, the players get 57% of Hockey Related Revenues, which have been estimated at $3.3 billion for the recently completed 2011-2012 NHL season. A reduction from 57% to 46% would take almost $300 million out of the players' share, and you can bet that they'll fight this point aggressively.

With the salary cap currently set at $70.2 million, this move would knock it down to $56.7 million, and you can bet that the only practical way to accomplish this would involve a rollback on all existing contracts of roughly 20%, just like they did in 2005. Otherwise, the burden of this cut would fall solely on this summer's free agent class, and force draconian moves by teams to get under the new cap.

So there you go, let's start with a 20% pay cut, everybody.

10 Years to Unrestricted Free Agency

Currently, NHL players have to achieve age 27 or have 7 years of North American pro experience to reach unrestricted free agent status, a timeline which is longer than in the other major pro sports. Prior to the 2005 CBA, the age for eligibility was 31, and apparently the owners want to get back to the good old days, by pushing the timeline out to 10 seasons of service.

To me, this is an item on which the owners can budge during negotiation in order to win points elsewhere, because as long as they have a salary cap in place, they know how much they'll spend on player salaries in total. How that money gets divided between the players is a relatively minor concern financially, but for the players, this is a major quality of life issue. Pro athletes place tremendous value on the chance for unrestricted free agency, so I wouldn't be surprised to see them concede a bit on the financial side in order to move this timeline up.

Contract Limit of 5 years

Attention Shea Weber - if you want that 12-year contract, this summer may be your last chance to get it.

Long-term contracts have been a controversial aspect of the current CBA environment, providing a loophole for teams to get around salary cap restrictions. Since each player's cap hit is determined by the average annual salary on a deal, throwing a few bogus years on at the end for $1 million apiece brings the overall average down, allowing you to pay a guy $8 million but have him only count $6 million against the cap.

Certainly the players want the flexibility of signing 10- or 15-year deals, but really, this aspect of the negotiation could have started off much nastier.

Assuming that Lavoie is touching on all the major points of the owners' proposal, it looks like the players are not being threatened on a front where they enjoy a huge benefit over the NFL - Guaranteed Contracts. In the NHL, if a player has a 5-year contract and gets severely injured in his first game, he continues to get paid for the duration of the deal.

If the owners indeed aren't going after guaranteed contracts, then perhaps things aren't going to be quite as contentious as could have been feared, and a 5-year limit could act as a limiting factor for their liability on these guarantees.

Ending Salary Arbitration

Nobody really likes salary arbitration, but at least it provides a mechanism for Restricted Free Agents to try and get a market-level contract in the event that a team tries to put the screws to them. So few players actually end up in an arbitration hearing that this shouldn't turn into a major battlefield, but when combined with the 10-year timeline to UFA status, this would take away a useful negotiating tool for most players in the league (since only a minority make it to 10 years).

Extend Entry Level Contracts to 5 years

Young players in the NHL are the best value in the biz, since they have basically no negotiating room and salaries are capped at modest levels. For most of them, they have to put in three seasons before earning that second contract (case in point - Colin Wilson this summer), and extending that time period to 5 years would really keep them under thumb.

As @SteffeG observed on Twitter, you have to imagine that many European players would say "screw that" and opt for the bright lights of the KHL instead.

If something like this did go through, however, the whole "draft & develop" model would become even more critical for team success, which would be a positive for a team like Nashville.

I think they need another scorer like Semin. We all know that injuries are going to occur. This team never seems to stay healthy and the more depth you can add the better you are.
- stveshdy

Additional scoring will probably have to wait until the trade deadline. Semin isn't the Flyers type of player. I doubt they show any interest at all. Holmgren took a shot on Zherdev and missed, that will probably scare him off when it comes to Semin.

As reported on NBC several weeks ago (by WIP legend Howard Eskin), Anaheim was asking for Gus, Read, and a 1st. The Flyers, as reported, would have to step up and meet that offer.

We are all biased to some extent, but Voracek, Read, Bourdon, and a pick are too much. We will never know the truth, but I am sure the teams are being patient at this point in the year. This crap may drag out for several, several, months.

-Jersey Gent
- Daman

If anaheim was really asking for Gus, read and a 1st the deal would have been done already. In a heartbeat. I bet that might have been Homer's lowball to anaheim, but from the Flyers side, you say yes to that all day long, am I right. Gus will play in the minors this year, almost guarenteed because he is the only waiver exempt guy. and Next years first wont play for 3-4 seasons most likely.... so all your giving up really is a 26 year old second year player in Read. He is a good assett, but you ahve to make that trade without giving Anaheim time to rethink, right?

An industry insider with knowledge of the players’ side of the CBA negotiation is predicting that there won't be a 2012-13 season.

The NHL initial proposal was reportedly leaked a couple days ago and it included demands like the players share of the revenues being reduced from 57% to 46%. "Last time around, the NHL made its salary cap proposal and barely moved off it," the source said, speaking under the condition of anonymity. "This is not an initial proposal. The league is shutting down and it’s ‘come back when you’re ready to accept.’ This is exactly what happened last time. You heard it here first, we will not play next year." Of course, it's still too early to panic. The economics of the NHL are different now than they were during the last lockout and the players remember what happened to them the last time they tried to hold out for an entire season. We might end up seeing a lot of these kinds of predictions, but that doesn't necessarily mean that when it comes right down to it, that both sides will follow through on their threats instead of compromising.

Source: ProHockeyTalk

You'd be foolish to move Couturier and Coburn in any trade.

I understand you have to give to get, but not those 2.

Schenn 1, Schenn 2, + prospects/picks is about as far as I'd go.
- LordStanley88

I don't see why moving Coburn, Couts and 2 1sts and maybe Cousins or Laughton is bad for us. Weber is better obviously better than Coburn and Couts can be replaced easier than it would be to find another defenseman like Weber. Just my opinion though.

"on paper" they aren't better, but that doesn't mean a hill of beans. Some better fortune on the injury front, and more consistent play from Bryzgalov and this can be a 100+ point team again this year.
- PLindbergh31

I'm not so sure. An injury or two or perhaps sophomore slumps and it's a team battling for the 8th seed. Really don't understand the direction the team has taken this offseason and I'm furious at the results to this point. Still some offseason to go, but is the d better than last year (even without Pronger), what about their forwards? Not better there? Goaltending? Nope. Just saying the Flyers have got worse in all areas, but yay, they have cap space!

An industry insider with knowledge of the players’ side of the CBA negotiation is predicting that there won't be a 2012-13 season.

The NHL initial proposal was reportedly leaked a couple days ago and it included demands like the players share of the revenues being reduced from 57% to 46%. "Last time around, the NHL made its salary cap proposal and barely moved off it," the source said, speaking under the condition of anonymity. "This is not an initial proposal. The league is shutting down and it’s ‘come back when you’re ready to accept.’ This is exactly what happened last time. You heard it here first, we will not play next year." Of course, it's still too early to panic. The economics of the NHL are different now than they were during the last lockout and the players remember what happened to them the last time they tried to hold out for an entire season. We might end up seeing a lot of these kinds of predictions, but that doesn't necessarily mean that when it comes right down to it, that both sides will follow through on their threats instead of compromising. Source: ProHockeyTalk
- stveshdy

they sat out a season because the league was losing 200-300 mil a year. now, they're just trying to figure out how to split the profits. if there was anything more than a slight delay to the start of the season, i'd be absolutely floored.

Additional scoring will probably have to wait until the trade deadline. Semin isn't the Flyers type of player. I doubt they show any interest at all. Holmgren took a shot on Zherdev and missed, that will probably scare him off when it comes to Semin.
- PLindbergh31

I don't think it's fair to compare Zherdev and Semin. Semin has proven his talent year in and year out. Yes, he has had attitude issues but I think he has matured and what is left is the Russian stigma.

An industry insider with knowledge of the players’ side of the CBA negotiation is predicting that there won't be a 2012-13 season.

The NHL initial proposal was reportedly leaked a couple days ago and it included demands like the players share of the revenues being reduced from 57% to 46%. "Last time around, the NHL made its salary cap proposal and barely moved off it," the source said, speaking under the condition of anonymity. "This is not an initial proposal. The league is shutting down and it’s ‘come back when you’re ready to accept.’ This is exactly what happened last time. You heard it here first, we will not play next year." Of course, it's still too early to panic. The economics of the NHL are different now than they were during the last lockout and the players remember what happened to them the last time they tried to hold out for an entire season. We might end up seeing a lot of these kinds of predictions, but that doesn't necessarily mean that when it comes right down to it, that both sides will follow through on their threats instead of compromising. Source: ProHockeyTalk
- stveshdy

Thats like asking the players to bend over...It also basically states that the higher market teams are now going to support bettmans expirements in the desert.

An industry insider with knowledge of the players’ side of the CBA negotiation is predicting that there won't be a 2012-13 season.

The NHL initial proposal was reportedly leaked a couple days ago and it included demands like the players share of the revenues being reduced from 57% to 46%. "Last time around, the NHL made its salary cap proposal and barely moved off it," the source said, speaking under the condition of anonymity. "This is not an initial proposal. The league is shutting down and it’s ‘come back when you’re ready to accept.’ This is exactly what happened last time. You heard it here first, we will not play next year." Of course, it's still too early to panic. The economics of the NHL are different now than they were during the last lockout and the players remember what happened to them the last time they tried to hold out for an entire season. We might end up seeing a lot of these kinds of predictions, but that doesn't necessarily mean that when it comes right down to it, that both sides will follow through on their threats instead of compromising.

Source: ProHockeyTalk
- stveshdy

If an entire season is lost, the damage will be immense, immeasurable, and beyond repair.

I don't think it's fair to compare Zherdev and Semin. Semin has proven his talent year in and year out. Yes, he has had attitude issues but I think he has matured and what is left is the Russian stigma.
- NickTheKid87

It's not fair to compare the players per say, Semin is a better player by far. What is fair to compare is the work ethic, and commitment. And Semin would take a much more financial commitment than Zherdev did. It's not happening you can take it to the bank.

I don't see why moving Coburn, Couts and 2 1sts and maybe Cousins or Laughton is bad for us. Weber is better obviously better than Coburn and Couts can be replaced easier than it would be to find another defenseman like Weber. Just my opinion though.
- NickTheKid87

Because Couturier is going to be a superstar, IMO, and Coburn is a bargain at his current price tag, while also being arguably our most important blue-liner.

I'd move Schenn and Meszy or Schenn 2, and if that's not enough, then I'll pass.

If an entire season is lost, the damage will be immense, immeasurable, and beyond repair.
- PLindbergh31

Sadly...yes.

If an entire season is lost, the damage will be immense, immeasurable, and beyond repair.
- PLindbergh31

there's a better chance of three consecutive pages of intelligent discourse here, than there is of losing an entire season.

I'm not so sure. An injury or two or perhaps sophomore slumps and it's a team battling for the 8th seed. Really don't understand the direction the team has taken this offseason and I'm furious at the results to this point. Still some offseason to go, but is the d better than last year (even without Pronger), what about their forwards? Not better there? Goaltending? Nope. Just saying the Flyers have got worse in all areas, but yay, they have cap space!
- Flyers1218

As I said, on paper there haven't been improvements. That doesn't mean a thing. If this group develops some cohesion and stays relatively healthy they will be a solid hockey club. I'm expecting Bryzgalov to play much better and with more consistency this year. That fact alone would be a huge boost.

there's a better chance of three consecutive pages of intelligent discourse here, than there is of losing an entire season.
- OrangeBlack27

An industry insider with knowledge of the players’ side of the CBA negotiation is predicting that there won't be a 2012-13 season.

The NHL initial proposal was reportedly leaked a couple days ago and it included demands like the players share of the revenues being reduced from 57% to 46%. "Last time around, the NHL made its salary cap proposal and barely moved off it," the source said, speaking under the condition of anonymity. "This is not an initial proposal. The league is shutting down and it’s ‘come back when you’re ready to accept.’ This is exactly what happened last time. You heard it here first, we will not play next year." Of course, it's still too early to panic. The economics of the NHL are different now than they were during the last lockout and the players remember what happened to them the last time they tried to hold out for an entire season. We might end up seeing a lot of these kinds of predictions, but that doesn't necessarily mean that when it comes right down to it, that both sides will follow through on their threats instead of compromising.

Source: ProHockeyTalk
- stveshdy

I find it hard to believe that the league would shut down for the entire season. The Winter Classic is going to be huge this year. I can't see the owners/NBC allowing that to go. Also, you have 24/7 building interest in the sport.

there's a better chance of three consecutive pages of intelligent discourse here, than there is of losing an entire season.
- OrangeBlack27

I don't want to waste any time discussing the labor issues. None of us no the facts, and the reports are beyond tiresome. I will worry if/when the season doesn't look as if it will start on time. Until then, leave all the red tape to the attorneys and pencil pushing geeks.

there's a better chance of three consecutive pages of intelligent discourse here, than there is of losing an entire season.
- OrangeBlack27

Thats like asking the players to bend over...It also basically states that the higher market teams are now going to support bettmans expirements in the desert.
- Philly1980

The deal is intentionally unrealistic, basically a wishlist of changes from the owners. I do wonder if the NHLPA will propose a similarly slanted deal.

Because Couturier is going to be a superstar, IMO, and Coburn is a bargain at his current price tag, while also being arguably our most important blue-liner.

I'd move Schenn and Meszy or Schenn 2, and if that's not enough, then I'll pass.
- LordStanley88

I don't think Couturier will be a superstar. He's not the greatest skater and he doesn't seem to have the offensive prowess of a elite player. I think he'll be a great defensive center that puts up 60-70 points a year on his good years but I can't see him being a more valuable player to have than Shea Weber.

I don't see why moving Coburn, Couts and 2 1sts and maybe Cousins or Laughton is bad for us. Weber is better obviously better than Coburn and Couts can be replaced easier than it would be to find another defenseman like Weber. Just my opinion though.
- NickTheKid87

this is just my opinio but while having a stud dman is huge, I believe you need all around depth to win and trading away too many pieces leaves the Flyers with too many holes. Esp being they don't have a lot of top end prospects.