I know I'm a little late to the G.O.A.T. discussion, but I've always felt that hockey fans have been a little cheated in that respect.

We really don't get to have a good debate about it because, quite frankly, there's Gretzky and there's everybody else. I know that some people try to stir the pot, but the question isn't really whether Gretzky is or isn't the greatest, but whether or not he he the greatest athlete of all time (being the most dominant in his sport).

It's the same way with Federer, in my opinion. At this point, it's no longer a debate over the GOAT in tennis, it's a debate over where Federer ranks with the all-time great athletes (easily top 5, I'd think).

That's actually a good debate: who are the top 5/10 athletes of all time?

My top 5 would have to include Federer, Gretzky, Phelps in no particular order. You'd probably have to include an NFLer and basketball player in there somewhere, as well.
- Leeman4Gilmour

I'd put Terry Fox at the top of my list, then after that some combination of Gretzky, Jordan, Babe Ruth, Jim Brown, etc

Posting anything Greasy, HockeyInsiderr or Intoxicated Bob writes should be an automatic 7-day ban.
- Atomic Wedgie

Big bad Bob still seems to think the Leafs have the best offer.


I guess they're all trying to throw poop around and see what sticks.,

Sadly even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once and a while

I'd put Terry Fox at the top of my list, then after that some combination of Gretzky, Jordan, Babe Ruth, Jim Brown, etc
- Zezel

Me too, Zedman.

The truly great don't entertain.

They inspire.

Letang vs. Karlsson......

I voted Karlsson.

Me too, Zedman.

The truly great don't entertain.

They inspire.
- Atomic Wedgie

No one's legacy in all of athletics even approaches his, he's saved and extended countless lives. Whenever I see footage of him running in the rain by himself on the Trans Canada on that artificial leg I get chills.

I'm sooooooo freaking bored...I'm ready to harpoon myself...

I'm sooooooo freaking bored...I'm ready to harpoon myself...
- Flyfreaky

Here, let me do it for you, you fat (frank)...

I'd put Terry Fox at the top of my list, then after that some combination of Gretzky, Jordan, Babe Ruth, Jim Brown, etc
- Zezel

I think regardless of whether you like the sport or not, you'd have to put one of Pele or Maradona on the list. Probably Pele.

I think regardless of whether you like the sport or not, you'd have to put one of Pele or Maradona on the list. Probably Pele.
- GuyLaDouche

Zidane! ZIDANE! ZINADINE MOTHER(frank)ING ZIDANE

I think regardless of whether you like the sport or not, you'd have to put one of Pele or Maradona on the list. Probably Pele.
- GuyLaDouche

Oh yeah, I'm a soccer fan, you'd probably have to include Pele. A case could be made for Maradona or even Zidane as well.

In the realm of other sports I'd also include Tony Hawk, Arnold Schwarznegger and Peter North.

Letang vs. Karlsson......

I voted Karlsson.
- robin_steele264

You suck, ban this guy.

No one's legacy in all of athletics even approaches his, he's saved and extended countless lives. Whenever I see footage of him running in the rain by himself on the Trans Canada on that artificial leg I get chills.
- Zezel

Very true, but I think to include him in a list of sports figures almost belittles his accomplishments.

Sport is a fun distraction, but his goal had nothing to do with competition against other humans.

Most inspirational feats? Best Canadian? Sure. He's right up there. But top competitive athlete? Like I said, it almost takes away from what he accomplished, and I'm sure any of the great athletes would agree that his fight was on an entirely different level.

Very true, but I think to include him in a list of sports figures almost belittles his accomplishments.

Sport is a fun distraction, but his goal had nothing to do with competition against other humans.

Most inspirational feats? Best Canadian? Sure. He's right up there. But top competitive athlete? Like I said, it almost takes away from what he accomplished, and I'm sure any of the great athletes would agree that his fight was on an entirely different level.
- Leeman4Gilmour

True, he transcends sports in a way

I think regardless of whether you like the sport or not, you'd have to put one of Pele or Maradona on the list. Probably Pele.
- GuyLaDouche

I've got Pele, Roger Federer, Babe Ruth, Wayne Gretzky, Michael Phelps, Muhammed Ali (?), Jim Brown, Lance Armstrong (not any more), Michael Jordan... in no particular order.

That's 9 if you include a presumably doped up Lance. I think you could make a good case for Schumacher in Formula 1. Maybe one of the all time great QB's. Usain Bolt? Will his records hold, though?

Tiger Woods probably makes his way into the discussion, but he's not even the best golfer of all time yet, and does golf count?

Zidane! ZIDANE! ZINADINE MOTHER(frank)ING ZIDANE
- AdamFrench

One could make a very legit case. Zizi was a machine in his prime.

I think Messi will be better than all of them in the end. He's not even human.

One could make a very legit case. Zizi was a machine in his prime.

I think Messi will be better than all of them in the end. He's not even human.
- GuyLaDouche

He needs to bring it at the inter level or face the same stigma of a lot of other greats. Guy is still so young though, he'll be a legend,

I've got Pele, Roger Federer, Babe Ruth, Wayne Gretzky, Michael Phelps, Muhammed Ali (?), Jim Brown, Lance Armstrong (not any more), Michael Jordan... in no particular order.

That's 9. I think you could make a good case for Schumacher in Formula 1. Maybe one of the all time great QB's. Usain Bolt? Will his records hold, though?

Tiger Woods probably makes his way into the discussion, but he's not even the best golfer of all time yet, and does golf count?
- Leeman4Gilmour

I wouldn't put any sprinter in there. I think they will always be getting faster.

Football players are harder because each position is relatively specialized, while sports like soccer and hockey and basketball require much better all around game. Jim Brown would be up there though for sure. Emmitt Smith and Barry Sanders? Jerry Rice? It makes me sad because Randy Moss should have been amongst the great names. Heartbreaking waste of talent.

Eklunds offer for Weber is redonkulous. There is just, no, (frank)ing, way.

He needs to bring it at the inter level or face the same stigma of a lot of other greats. Guy is still so young though, he'll be a legend,
- AdamFrench

I think the Argies will go far in Brazil. I blame the vuvuzelas in SA.

What's going on guys?

Eklunds offer for Weber is redonkulous. There is just, no, (frank)ing, way.
- Leafland

Yeah way too much...especially if the contract lengths are only 5 year max. Imagine giving up all that to only ensure 5 years of a player

Eklunds offer for Weber is redonkulous. There is just, no, (frank)ing, way.
- Leafland

It's totally insane. I love how the Kessel deal was supposedly a complete overpayment, and yet now when people propose hypothetical deals for a star player it's like one or two firsts is the starting point and then they start throwing two or three assets on top of that like it's no big deal.

I wouldn't put any sprinter in there. I think they will always be getting faster.

Football players are harder because each position is relatively specialized, while sports like soccer and hockey and basketball require much better all around game. Jim Brown would be up there though for sure. Emmitt Smith and Barry Sanders? Jerry Rice? It makes me sad because Randy Moss should have been amongst the great names. Heartbreaking waste of talent.
- GuyLaDouche

I wondered the same about sprinters. Although, at some point, they will simply reach the peak, will they not? Surely, one day a record will be set that cannot physically be broken.

As for football, you're right that the positions are so vastly different that they're practically playing different sports. How can you compare Joe Montana to Barry Sanders? So that's an obvious complication.

Another factor is how you choose to project current players. Will Peyton Manning go down as the best QB of all time when all is said and done? There's really no way to tell except to guess.

Letang vs. Karlsson......

I voted Karlsson.
- robin_steele264

Gagner

It's totally insane. I love how the Kessel deal was supposedly a complete overpayment, and yet now when people propose hypothetical deals for a star player it's like one or two firsts is the starting point and then they start throwing two or three assets on top of that like it's no big deal.
- Zezel

Knowing how poor the leafs finished the two seasons that the Bruins had their first round pick that trade was overpayment, but Burke believed he had a playoff team, so at the time it was fair. Burke just over valued his squad and that is why the trade seems like overpayment. If they were all #15 picks, no one would say it was a terrible trade.

Edit: I bolded the above text, because some don't think even with the high picks that it was overpayment for Kessel, but IMO knowing what you gave up, it is. It is arguable though. Just thought I'd clear that up.