When they signed Huet and Campbell? I think the Hawks were a hotter destination then than today. Much more so.
- John Jaeckel

They were still paying the "bad team" premium back then..

If there's cap space, which there's been going back over a year, there's no reason to play prospects.
- John Jaeckel

The catch 22 of the salary cap. The Hawks were only under the salary cap BECAUSE they were playing prospects. The Hawks aren't under the salary cap without playing the likes of Kruger, Stalberg, Leddy and Bickell. Replace those salaries with average salaries for the positions they held and you will see what I mean.

So once you rely on prospects to be under the cap you actually need more salary cap space. Just in case one of them doesn't work out and you need to bring in salary to replace them.

And that means you also need a transition period where the new "cheap" contracts are there before the old "cheap" contracts expire. Otherwise, how do you know they can actually handle playing in bigger roles?

I can honestly see Edzo as a replacement for Bowman under McDonough.

BUT . . . to me, the way to go is start from the top. And I would emulate the models in Detroit or St. Louis. Both have as their Presidents very low key business guys. But then a very strong, outfront GM (Holland) with a strong head of hockey operations (Devellano). Similar structure in St. Louis with Davidson and Armstrong.

The Hawks' structure is way more nebulous and seems much more dominated by the Team President. I could go on and on but I think the Hawks' model is broken and I think Rocky knows it and I have been told he has regrets over the Tallon dismissal.

It hurt the organization and its reputation.

The only way he turns this thing around is he has to bring in a new president/head of hockey ops—a hockey guy—and give him a clean slate. From there, it's a great situation because you have a very good team and talent pipeline and a great city and arena, Original Six, etc.

But it's not happening with the current cast of characters.
- John Jaeckel

So McD was hired Nov-2007. That was a 5-year contract. When was it renewed? Was it renewed?

About a year or so ago IIRC we heard/saw a couple radar blips about McD interesting another franchise, possibly in town (lot's of Bears dissatisfaction at that time). That really didn't gain any traction and has long been swept under the rug, right?

You personally wrote that there could be a Mt. Rocky ready to blow back around April. Mt. Rocky starting to rumble again?

So who's the "Theo Epstein" of hockey that can be pried away from his current team? A present GM who would be elevated to the position of Prez of the 'Hawks and have complete hockey operations autonomy, separate from the biz side.

EDIT: Stop it right there!! And yes, Edzo as GM.

The catch 22 of the salary cap. The Hawks were only under the salary cap BECAUSE they were playing prospects. The Hawks aren't under the salary cap without playing the likes of Kruger, Stalberg, Leddy and Bickell. Replace those salaries with average salaries for the positions they held and you will see what I mean.

So once you rely on prospects to be under the cap you actually need more salary cap space. Just in case one of them doesn't work out and you need to bring in salary to replace them.

And that means you also need a transition period where the new "cheap" contracts are there before the old "cheap" contracts expire. Otherwise, how do you know they can actually handle playing in bigger roles?
- DaleHalas

Dale,

Start at point A and move forward.

The basic reason the Hawks were under the salary cap is because they saved close to $4 mill in cap space on the Campbell dump and picked up another $3 mill or so by playing Olesz in Rockford.

In essence, little if any of that cap space was used.

After the Cup Bowman was squeezed but not last summer.

Shaw for example was played because he was better than those on the roster...
He was a pleasant surprise.

The majority of the available cap space went unused at the deadline.

All vg teams need a pleasant surprise or two with modest contracts...But there isn't a logical argument to say the Hawks were forced to play anyone last season.

Leddy is on EL contract fiiting to where he was drafted.

Bickell is lucky to be in the NHL.

Stalberg has potential and not much of a track record.

Kruger is just cutting his teeth.

All that said the Campbell/Olesz availble cap space was left unused....

The best teams normally bump up to the cap...The Hawks had a lot of room to improve and made one marginal upgrade in Oduya.

That's bad mgt more than required economics.

On Twitter@AlCimaglia

The catch 22 of the salary cap. The Hawks were only under the salary cap BECAUSE they were playing prospects. The Hawks aren't under the salary cap without playing the likes of Kruger, Stalberg, Leddy and Bickell. Replace those salaries with average salaries for the positions they held and you will see what I mean.

So once you rely on prospects to be under the cap you actually need more salary cap space. Just in case one of them doesn't work out and you need to bring in salary to replace them.

And that means you also need a transition period where the new "cheap" contracts are there before the old "cheap" contracts expire. Otherwise, how do you know they can actually handle playing in bigger roles?
- DaleHalas

Problem is the other players aren't big enough/skilled enough to overcome those youngsters and still compete for a cup.

There could have been trades and UFA moves the last 3 weeks that would significantly improved this team and they didn't do it. It wouldn't matter if Bollig or Hayes started the season in the minors. Or Carcillo wasn't always in the lineup.

What matters is getting more physical, plus a better goalie or 2C. Other than Brookbank, nothing was done.

Just counting on full seasons of Shaw, JO and Carcillo - and we know that'll be part of the "pitch" this weekend - won't put them much closer to the cup and won't solve the too much TOI issues of #2/#8.

The catch 22 of the salary cap. The Hawks were only under the salary cap BECAUSE they were playing prospects. The Hawks aren't under the salary cap without playing the likes of Kruger, Stalberg, Leddy and Bickell. Replace those salaries with average salaries for the positions they held and you will see what I mean.

So once you rely on prospects to be under the cap you actually need more salary cap space. Just in case one of them doesn't work out and you need to bring in salary to replace them.

And that means you also need a transition period where the new "cheap" contracts are there before the old "cheap" contracts expire. Otherwise, how do you know they can actually handle playing in bigger roles?
- DaleHalas

As of 1 year ago:

Kruger — had played and succeeded in pro hockey in Sweden (against men), and had more NHL experience than Saad
Stalberg— had played 2 full seasons in the NHL
Leddy had most of a season in the NHL
Bickell had all or part of 2 seasons

All were older than Saad.

If I understand you correctly, you think you're providing a rationale for why playing Saad this year is necessary by citing these players and their inclusion on the roster (with available cap space) last season.

You have failed to make that argument as ALL your examples had measurable pro experience, and some pro success, at that point and ALL were older than Saad is.

So McD was hired Nov-2007. That was a 5-year contract. When was it renewed? Was it renewed?

About a year or so ago IIRC we heard/saw a couple radar blips about McD interesting another franchise, possibly in town (lot's of Bears dissatisfaction at that time). That really didn't gain any traction and has long been swept under the rug, right?

You personally wrote that there could be a Mt. Rocky ready to blow back around April. Mt. Rocky starting to rumble again?

So who's the "Theo Epstein" of hockey that can be pried away from his current team? A present GM who would be elevated to the position of Prez of the 'Hawks and have complete hockey operations autonomy, separate from the biz side.

EDIT: Stop it right there!! Any yes, Edzo as GM.
- blackhawk24

No idea on his contract status.

Problem with the hire Edzo scenario is it likely means under McDonough. I don't think Rocky should or would hire a team President but tell him he has to have Eddie Olczyk as his GM.

But as I said the other day, if McD remains but Bowman(s) get broomed, I can see Edzo being the choice for a variety of reasons. not necessarily good ones. But he would check a lot of boxes in that scenario.

They were still paying the "bad team" premium back then..
- Al

True, but they also had more forward mojo at that point than they do now—strictly IMO.

No idea on his contract status.

Problem with the hire Edzo scenario is it likely means under McDonough. I don't think Rocky should or would hire a team President but tell him he has to have Eddie Olczyk as his GM.

But as I said the other day, if McD remains but Bowman(s) get broomed, I can see Edzo being the choice for a variety of reasons. not necessarily good ones. But he would check a lot of boxes in that scenario.
- John Jaeckel

OK....how would doing both of these keep McD out of hockey ops? Would one condition of McD staying be Rocky does a Tom Ricketts and tells McD/Kenney to stay out of Theo-Jed's/Ezdo's biz? It'd have to, right? Edzo has to know a lot of inside schtufff. He wouldn't let his cushy jobs he has right now to fly into the hornets nest.

from Chi Tribune: "We are excited to add Jamie as assistant coach and certainly welcome the Stanley Cup pedigree he brings,”

FRONT OFFICE ALREADY APPLYING THEIR SPIN
- Hawkswin

Jesus!!! What the hell do you expect them to say? "Well we scraped the bottom of the barrel and Jamie was the best of the worst, so sorry fans, suck it!"

True, but they also had more forward mojo at that point than they do now—strictly IMO.
- John Jaeckel

Oh...I wouldn't argue against you there...My point is ...If the $$ is equal than the intangibles take over and so far that hasn't led to attracting a big name.

I can honestly see Edzo as a replacement for Bowman under McDonough.

BUT . . . to me, the way to go is start from the top. And I would emulate the models in Detroit or St. Louis. Both have as their Presidents very low key business guys. But then a very strong, outfront GM (Holland) with a strong head of hockey operations (Devellano). Similar structure in St. Louis with Davidson and Armstrong.

The Hawks' structure is way more nebulous and seems much more dominated by the Team President. I could go on and on but I think the Hawks' model is broken and I think Rocky knows it and I have been told he has regrets over the Tallon dismissal.

It hurt the organization and its reputation.

The only way he turns this thing around is he has to bring in a new president/head of hockey ops—a hockey guy—and give him a clean slate. From there, it's a great situation because you have a very good team and talent pipeline and a great city and arena, Original Six, etc.

But it's not happening with the current cast of characters.
- John Jaeckel

jj did the tallon dismissal hurt the hawks reputation more than the hiring of the guy SB that backstabbed tallon by not covering his back with the signing of players ?

Oh...I wouldn't argue against you there...My point is ...If the $$ is equal than the intangibles take over and so far that hasn't led to attracting a big name.
- Al

Which means if anything is to happen, need an overpay - just like in 2008.

jj did the tallon dismissal hurt the hawks reputation more than the hiring of the guy SB that backstabbed tallon by not covering his back with the signing of players ?
- molly2522

Are you suggesting that Tallon getting the boot was a setup through a Bowman attempt to overtake the front office? If so, I'm completely on board.

@ESPNChiHawks: Pretty sure Kompon had a big hand in poor Kings pp, especially before Sutter came on board

So to fix the PP they brought over a guy who couldn't get the Kings PP to function properly???

Clean house Rocky!!! Immediately!!! I want Edzo as the GM!!!!
- captainserious

Talk about YES men...

How would this be an improvement? Hiring Dr. Active Stick who has had ZERO experience will return us to glory?

...and the White Sox should put Ken Harrelson back in as GM....

no...

Are you suggesting that Tallon getting the boot was a setup through a Bowman attempt to overtake the front office? If so, I'm completely on board.
- 1goalLordStanley

Not only am i suggesting it but i think the whole league knows it and does not discuss it

Those three had such great success with St. Lousi back then. When does Rocky step in and end the "getting the band back together"?

New wishlist for offseason:

1) new coaching staff
2) new GM
3) Daniel Winnik
4) Scott Hannan
- ikeane

How exactly do these players improve the Hawks? Depth?

These are not difference makers...they are simply guys.

Aggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh welll Hello boys, back from a horrible disasterious day of sensitivity training... ! JJ , Al, Ogi, Rob, Southie, eli, errrrerybody !!q good after noon, so the Hawks, Q specifically , hired a Q disciple that also blows at putting a power play together, have still signed zero meaningful FAs , we're 16 days into free agency, Stan has made zero trades.... NM he got a 4th round pick for next year ..... And the Hawks NHL roster still stays the same as the sorry ass team we saw last year. A team with horrible special teams, weak goalies and NO balls at all..... No forecheck unless Shaw Carcillo Bickell and Frolik provide it, no new roster for Q. Wasnt an upgraded roster promised to Q and Us the fans ??? So angry right now.....

Hey: Eklund has us in on Semin--thank heavens that's not happening. But he didn't mention us with Luongo...

BORING SUMMER!

Double post...sorry

jj did the tallon dismissal hurt the hawks reputation more than the hiring of the guy SB that backstabbed tallon by not covering his back with the signing of players ?
- molly2522

Yes to the first part and I don't believe Stan Bowman ever backstabbed Tallon. Everything I've ever heard is he's a good guy, just maybe not ready to be an NHL GM when hired.

Yes to the first part and I don't believe Stan Bowman ever backstabbed Tallon. Everything I've ever heard is he's a good guy, just maybe not ready to be an NHL GM when hired.
- John Jaeckel

I kinda think he is still not ready to be an NHL GM. He has yet to impress me with anything he has done...prospects don't count with me until they get to the big show!

I can honestly see Edzo as a replacement for Bowman under McDonough.

BUT . . . to me, the way to go is start from the top. And I would emulate the models in Detroit or St. Louis. Both have as their Presidents very low key business guys. But then a very strong, outfront GM (Holland) with a strong head of hockey operations (Devellano). Similar structure in St. Louis with Davidson and Armstrong.

The Hawks' structure is way more nebulous and seems much more dominated by the Team President. I could go on and on but I think the Hawks' model is broken and I think Rocky knows it and I have been told he has regrets over the Tallon dismissal.

It hurt the organization and its reputation.

The only way he turns this thing around is he has to bring in a new president/head of hockey ops—a hockey guy—and give him a clean slate. From there, it's a great situation because you have a very good team and talent pipeline and a great city and arena, Original Six, etc.

But it's not happening with the current cast of characters.
- John Jaeckel

wow - jj stepping out a little here. But i do see the same thing - something is not quite right. Talent evaluation is really lacking. Decision making on top is also weak. Where is the FAs wanting to take a pay cut to play in Chicago? Just not sure what the problem is, but this team is good and a lot better than most people think. Tweaks are needed, but even then a major issue still resides behind the bench. And in certain matchups, this team will not fare well.

We're really (frank)ing screwed!


EDIT: I hope Haviland is laughing his ass off about this.
- EKolb13

How is the hiring of an assistant a sign that we are screwed...

...sure Q knows him, why is that a problem?

...the guy just got a ring, why is that a problem?

Why would Haviland be laughing? Has he even found another job yet?

Relax Eli...

I would think we need to actually watch the team play to see how this plays out. Getting upset about the hiring of an assistant...a guy who just got a ring...is ridiculous.

Not thrilled with the Kompon signing - another Q krony - probably a yes man.

take a look at the kings, they get a new coach and win the cup. The kings have been underachieving for several years. Kings still look solid for years to come.