Still a reallll tough pill to swallow.

I look at it like this.. Claude Giroux makes everybody on the ice better when he is out there. Does Weber do that? Weber is the premier d-man in the NHL, and might be the best total d-man, all around (offense, defense, nastiness, leadership,etc) since Pronger was in his prime... BUT, idk...

I think I keep G...
- jak521

From a pure Hockey standpoint, it's a very fair trade. It's the emotional and loyalty issues that would make it difficult to pull that trigger. Giroux is a player that is home grown and has evolved into a star before our very eyes.

Are people actually entertaining the idea of trading Claude Giroux straight up for Shea Weber? That's asinine. I would only trade G straight up for Crosby and MAYBE Malkin, but Weber? He's the best defenseman in the league but Claude Giroux means more to a team, especially the Flyers.

The only saving grace in that trade would be the ability to plug Schenn and Couts in @1-2, and that come UFA you would have a much easier time finding a top line guy than a franchise d-man.
- jak521

I know Schenn and Couturier are young and still developing (with high potential) but I dont feel that either will be better than Claude Giroux. Thats my opinion. I do agree with your thought process though. Tough call either way.

From a pure Hockey standpoint, it's a very fair trade. It's the emotional and loyalty issues that would make it difficult to pull that trigger. Giroux is a player that is home grown and has evolved into a star before our very eyes.
- MJL

I think a lot depends on what your team is trying to do. Are you an offensive or defensive minded team. Do you believe in building from the net out or from center ice in. Those factors would play a big role in a trade of that caliber.

Are people actually entertaining the idea of trading Claude Giroux straight up for Shea Weber? That's asinine. I would only trade G straight up for Crosby and MAYBE Malkin, but Weber? He's the best defenseman in the league but Claude Giroux means more to a team, especially the Flyers.
- NickTheKid87

I think you can make the same case for Weber. Both players are elite players in the NHL.

Just for argument's sake, you think a guy that pushes the play up-ice with the majority of his shifts starting in his own end against top competition isn't making everybody on the ice better?
- OrangeBlack27

No not what I am saying.. I am saying G has a gift when it comes to hockey skills.. He is supremely talented.. I think Weber is physically gifted and talented. I dont think he has supreme skill. Cannon shot, good skater, decent passer... but its his size that sets him apart. He dominates people because of his size.

Now what I mean by making players better... Putting G on the ice with two other forwards... he will create offense no matter what. I dont know if that the case with Weber... but Weber will shut other top players down alone.. so that is a boost for him... Its a super tough trade to make because it is so close.

I know Schenn and Couturier are young and still developing (with high potential) but I dont feel that either will be better than Claude Giroux. Thats my opinion. I do agree with your thought process though. Tough call either way.
- stveshdy

Yea I dont think so either, but I think Couts has the ability to be a 70 point, two way star center. Thats totally ideal for a 1st line guy and definitely is a great second option to G.

Are people actually entertaining the idea of trading Claude Giroux straight up for Shea Weber? That's asinine. I would only trade G straight up for Crosby and MAYBE Malkin, but Weber? He's the best defenseman in the league but Claude Giroux means more to a team, especially the Flyers.
- NickTheKid87

Unfortunately, top D-men in the league such as Lidstrom, Pronger, Chara, Niedermayer, Doughty, and Keith have had a tough time winning cups.

From a pure Hockey standpoint, it's a very fair trade. It's the emotional and loyalty issues that would make it difficult to pull that trigger. Giroux is a player that is home grown and has evolved into a star before our very eyes.
- MJL

For exactly this reason I can't make that trade.

(frank) Weber......Im keeping G spot.....No way i do that trade......

My reason: G has that XFACTOR.
ps....... voracek+read for bobby ryan.....GID HOMER

I think you can make the same case for Weber. Both players are elite players in the NHL.
- stveshdy

True but when you factor in age it's Giroux by a landslide. Even if they were the same age I'd take G. I think G is a better forward than Weber is a defenseman.

True but when you factor in age it's Giroux by a landslide. Even if they were the same age I'd take G. I think G is a better forward than Weber is a defenseman.
- NickTheKid87

I really believe a lot is based on what your team values more.

Are people actually entertaining the idea of trading Claude Giroux straight up for Shea Weber? That's asinine. I would only trade G straight up for Crosby and MAYBE Malkin, but Weber? He's the best defenseman in the league but Claude Giroux means more to a team, especially the Flyers.
- NickTheKid87

I don't know how you can say it's assinine when Defensemen are so important and Weber is the best dman in the league. It's a tough argument for and against. I'm happy I'm not the one who makes that decision.

From a pure Hockey standpoint, it's a very fair trade. It's the emotional and loyalty issues that would make it difficult to pull that trigger. Giroux is a player that is home grown and has evolved into a star before our very eyes.
- MJL

No its absolutely a fair trade, and you are absolutely correct that its an emotional issue. I think that a case could also be made for keeping G though.. Both players are the key player on their team. The one thing about G that I like above and beyond Weber is how he performs come playoffs... He over a ppg player in the playoffs and somehow elevates his game to an even higher level.... thats a pretty rare feat... Weber seems to stay the same.

Unfortunately, top D-men in the league such as Lidstrom, Pronger, Chara, Niedermayer, Doughty, and Keith have had a tough time winning cups.
- Daman

I get what your saying but Lidstrom had some star forwards like Yzerman, Fedorov, Shanahan, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Doughty and Chara had deep forward corps + unbeatable goalies and Keith had a great all around team and a hot goalie. Same with Pronger. These defensemen were all integral to there teams success but look at the'09 Pens, '06 Canes, '04 Lightning, '01 Avs, etc. Those teams didn't have an elite defenseman but most had elite forwards.

I really believe a lot is based on what your team values more.
- stveshdy

I can agree with that. And for the Flyers, that's offense. Giroux fits better than Weber.

I don't know how you can say it's assinine when Defensemen are so important and Weber is the best dman in the league. It's a tough argument for and against. I'm happy I'm not the one who makes that decision.
- JoeRussomanno

I can't see this trade ever happening. If Weber ever dons the Orange and Black, Giroux will be wearing the same uni as well.

I can agree with that. And for the Flyers, that's offense. Giroux fits better than Weber.
- NickTheKid87

That could be the case. The difference is the Flyers dont need to trade Giroux but the Preds may be forced to trade Weber. So the Flyers can put a nice offer together without giving up their superstar. They still have Schenn and Couturier to start a package with.

I get what your saying but Lidstrom had some star forwards like Yzerman, Fedorov, Shanahan, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Doughty and Chara had deep forward corps + unbeatable goalies and Keith had a great all around team and a hot goalie. Same with Pronger. These defensemen were all integral to there teams success but look at the'09 Pens, '06 Canes, '04 Lightning, '01 Avs, etc. Those teams didn't have an elite defenseman but most had elite forwards.
- NickTheKid87

09 pens had Gonchar who was one of the best offensive D-men in the league.
01 Avs had both Rob Blake and Ray Bourque

I can't see this trade ever happening. If Weber ever dons the Orange and Black, Giroux will be wearing the same uni as well.
- NickTheKid87

I didn't mention probability just comparing the value each one brings. They are both elite players that mean a lot to their teams. I think we can agree there. If you look at a possible trade scenario it might/might not make sense, I just don't think labeling pondering it is asinine.

That could be the case. The difference is the Flyers dont need to trade Giroux but the Preds may be forced to trade Weber. So the Flyers can put a nice offer together without giving up their superstar. They still have Schenn OR Couturier to start a package with.
- stveshdy

Not and... OR

I get what your saying but Lidstrom had some star forwards like Yzerman, Fedorov, Shanahan, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Doughty and Chara had deep forward corps + unbeatable goalies and Keith had a great all around team and a hot goalie. Same with Pronger. These defensemen were all integral to there teams success but look at the'09 Pens, '06 Canes, '04 Lightning, '01 Avs, etc. Those teams didn't have an elite defenseman but most had elite forwards.
- NickTheKid87

I agree it's close. I just think Weber gives you better consistency towards the cup. Again, we would still have Briere, Schenn and Coots down the middle.

Weber, Timmo, Mez, Coby, Grossmann, and Schenn. That is sick.

Bryz would be great in this situation IMO.

We would have Harts and Voracek and Read and Simmonds at wing. Would need a little more, but I'll take that.

09 pens had Gonchar who was one of the best offensive D-men in the league.
01 Avs had both Rob Blake and Ray Bourque
- jak521

I wouldn't put Gonchar in the same class as Lidstrom, Pronger, etc. Crosby and Malkin were biggest reasons they won the Cup. And Bourque was at the end of his career with the Avs. He was elite with Boston though and look how that worked out.

For exactly this reason I can't make that trade.
- BulliesPhan87

+1

Not and... OR
- jak521

I'm trying to get Weber on the cheap...

Chances are they could wait until next summer and just sign him without losing any players if you believe he will test the market.