Let's say we had Seguin instead of Kessel right now. Who's to say he would've developed properly? Who's to say we wouldn't have "Schenn'ed" him, putting an enormous amount of pressure on him to succeed, with no insulation and team success to to surround him with like Boston? Kessel at least had a couple of good years under his belt to develop into the perennial 30-goal guy he is.

Then there's Hamilton and Knight. Good prospects, verdicts still out.

Would I rather have Seguin at this point? Seguin, the kid who's developing properly (even if as a winger), yeah, probably, but we'd still need a center or if not, a scoring winger so we'd be right where we are now:

Lupul JVR/Seguin JVR/Seguin
MacArthur Grabs Kulemin
...
Phaneuf Gunnarsson
...
Hamilton Gardiner

Does that team really look that much better? Would we really be so much further ahead in the rebuild?
- gravyface

Exactly.... the same people who say that the deal is terrible are the same people who say that the Leafs can't develop talent properly. Talking out of both sides of their mouths?

Why is burke getting criticism for not Signing Sundin?? Burke Hired Nov 29 2008, Sundin Signed Dec 18 2008 in Van. Burke can hardly be blamed for not signing him, 2 weeks on the job.

Sundin waffling caused his own undoing. Sundin was treated fairly for a long time here, and I don't have a problem with how he's portrayed now.
- burn

I believe you hold the minority opinion on this matter.

And, you wonder why top UFAs avoid the Leafs?
- spatso

Why?

And, the Rangers and Flyers do it because..................?
- spatso

Do what? Who have the Flyers signed this year, UFA? Last year? Jagr, 39 years old. Rangers got Richards, who was 31.

And what the (frank) do you want from me? Just to disagree? I already said the Leafs are not a top destination, but I also explained (several (frank)ing times) that there's only so much UFA to go around.

I believe you hold the minority opinion on this matter.
- spatso

I'm in the minority that Burke (frank)ed this one?? The minority is pretty (frank)ing smart then..... those are the facts. Sundin said in the summer he wasn't sure if he was going to play again. the Leafs moved on. Burke is getting criticism for not signing him in the 2 weeks from when he got the job to when Sundin went to Vancouver?? That has to be the dumbest thing of all time.

I'll gladly be in the minority on this, seeing as it's factually correct. You want to believe otherwise, by all means keep up the delusions.

Blaming Burke for actions he wasn't responsible for, a little overboard on the retarded unfounded Burke hate. Par for the course for you.

Let's say we had Seguin instead of Kessel right now. Who's to say he would've developed properly? Who's to say we wouldn't have "Schenn'ed" him, putting an enormous amount of pressure on him to succeed, with no insulation and team success to to surround him with like Boston? Kessel at least had a couple of good years under his belt to develop into the perennial 30-goal guy he is.

Then there's Hamilton and Knight. Good prospects, verdicts still out.

Would I rather have Seguin at this point? Seguin, the kid who's developing properly (even if as a winger), yeah, probably, but we'd still need a center or if not, a scoring winger so we'd be right where we are now:

Lupul JVR/Seguin JVR/Seguin
MacArthur Grabs Kulemin
...
Phaneuf Gunnarsson
...
Hamilton Gardiner

Does that team really look that much better? Would we really be so much further ahead in the rebuild?
- gravyface

I look at it differently. If the Leafs had avoided the Kessel deal and put their energies into a comprehensive rebuild the Leafs today would look something like the young run and gun Oilers who are entirely adored by their fans. I believe Leaf fans would love that kind of team, they are capable of seeing beyond the losing and understanding that what is coming is special. They are doing something similar in Ottawa. Leaf fans deserve no less.

I believe you hold the minority opinion on this matter.
- spatso

This is a pretty weak argument anyways....
#1 I doubt it. #2 have you seen the majority around here lately??

I look at it differently. If the Leafs had avoided the Kessel deal and put their energies into a comprehensive rebuild the Leafs today would look something like the young run and gun Oilers who are entirely adored by their fans. I believe Leaf fans would love that kind of team, they are capable of seeing beyond the losing and understanding that what is coming is special. They are doing something similar in Ottawa. Leaf fans deserve no less.
- spatso

Didn't answer the question...... how would it work?? You have repeatedly said the Leafs can't develop properly. What makes you think They don't "Schenn" those guys?? You argument just fell apart.

I'm in the minority that Burke (frank)ed this one?? The minority is pretty (frank)ing smart then..... those are the facts. Sundin said in the summer he wasn't sure if he was going to play again. the Leafs moved on. Burke is getting criticism for not signing him in the 2 weeks from when he got the job to when Sundin went to Vancouver?? That has to be the dumbest thing of all time.

I'll gladly be in the minority on this, seeing as it's factually correct. You want to believe otherwise, by all means keep up the delusions.

Blaming Burke for actions he wasn't responsible for, a little overboard on the retarded unfounded Burke hate. Par for the course for you.
- burn

Mrs. Spatso is not a hockey fan. If she shows any interest it is most likely as a very mild Senators fan. She holds very few strong opinions about hockey. The one exception is that she believes that it was disgraceful the way the Leafs bungled the Sundin affair.

Mrs. Spatso is not a hockey fan. If she shows any interest it is most likely as a very mild Senators fan. She holds very few strong opinions about hockey. The one exception is that she believes that it was disgraceful the way the Leafs bungled the Sundin affair.
- spatso

The leafs owed sundin nothing and sundin owed the leafs nothing.... Would it have been nice if mats took a trade that would have got us a late first +

Sure it would have but he didn't Owe it to anyone... The only disgraceful thing is how leaf fans act towards him now

I look at it differently. If the Leafs had avoided the Kessel deal and put their energies into a comprehensive rebuild the Leafs today would look something like the young run and gun Oilers who are entirely adored by their fans. I believe Leaf fans would love that kind of team, they are capable of seeing beyond the losing and understanding that what is coming is special. They are doing something similar in Ottawa. Leaf fans deserve no less.
- spatso

Oh come on, Edmonton (much like Pittsburgh) lucked out on lottery picks and EDM hasn't done anything... yet.

Newsflash: you can't make a team tank; fundamentally impossible. You can fill the roster with journeymen and rookies, you can keep the payroll low, but so do the Phoenix, Nashville, Dallas, etc. etc. and none of those guys are drafting first overall.

You think TOR would get away with having a cap floor team, in this market?

Look at how many idiots come out of the woodworks because Burke didn't throw $9M at Jokinen or hasn't "done anything" this UFA. Every other (frank)ing day there's another MSM article female doging about Burke not doing anything. You think "tank nation" would work?

Give me a (frank)ing break.

This tank = success "illusion" has only worked for PITT and CHI since I can remember and (this is going to kill you) as Burke said, "The Pittsburgh Model isn't a model at all". Chicago had to dismantle their team after winning the Cup. Imagine if they needed two tries like Pittsburgh did to win their cup?

Mrs. Spatso is not a hockey fan. If she shows any interest it is most likely as a very mild Senators fan. She holds very few strong opinions about hockey. The one exception is that she believes that it was disgraceful the way the Leafs bungled the Sundin affair.
- spatso

So?? I care what someone that is A) Admittedly not knowing of the Leafs (mildly following the Sens) and B) shows very little interest in hockey (Not a hockey fan)?? Do I care about that?? Does that mean that everyone feels the same?? I'm sure that she doesn't know half the story, considering you're blaming Burke for the "fiasco" when he wasn't employed with the team when the whole "trade thing" went down, and was on the job 2 weeks when he signed in Van.


People who know the story, and don't prejudge, feel the same way.

The leafs owed sundin nothing and sundin owed the leafs nothing.... Would it have been nice if mats took a trade that would have got us a late first +

Sure it would have but he didn't Owe it to anyone... The only disgraceful thing is how leaf fans act towards him now
- The_Vark

This....... But Mrs. Spapso who doesn't follow the Leafs nor is a hockey fan to begin with disagrees. Does that change your opinion?

Mrs. Spatso is not a hockey fan. If she shows any interest it is most likely as a very mild Senators fan. She holds very few strong opinions about hockey. The one exception is that she believes that it was disgraceful the way the Leafs bungled the Sundin affair.
- spatso

Dude!! I still can't believe you posted that your wife doesn't follow hockey or the Leafs as evidence. Good god. You just further enforced my point.

Oh come on, Edmonton (much like Pittsburgh) lucked out on lottery picks and EDM hasn't done anything... yet.

Newsflash: you can't make a team tank; fundamentally impossible. You can fill the roster with journeymen and rookies, you can keep the payroll low, but so do the Phoenix, Nashville, Dallas, etc. etc. and none of those guys are drafting first overall.

You think TOR would get away with having a cap floor team, in this market?

Look at how many idiots come out of the woodworks because Burke didn't throw $9M at Jokinen or hasn't "done anything" this UFA. Every other (frank)ing day there's another MSM article female doging about Burke not doing anything. You think "tank nation" would work?

Give me a (frank)ing break.

This tank = success "illusion" has only worked for PITT and CHI since I can remember and (this is going to kill you) as Burke said, "The Pittsburgh Model isn't a model at all". Chicago had to dismantle their team after winning the Cup. Imagine if they needed two tries like Pittsburgh did to win their cup?
- gravyface

Didn't answer the question...... how would it work?? You have repeatedly said the Leafs can't develop properly. What makes you think They don't "Schenn" those guys?? You argument just fell apart.
- burn

It is a good and strong point that you make. These guys don't seem to be able to develop players. As you know I believe the entire Schenn affair is so disappointing. It may sound contradictory but I do not believe it is to believe that the only way for the Leafs to get good at developing talent is to close off the other options. The Oilers are succeeding because they have clearly mapped out a strong drafting and development strategy. How many times do you see people here on this site saying they are prepared to give up next year's #1 in a deal for Ryan or Nash. When we say the Leafs are committed to rebuilding everyone understands that the plan can be cancelled if we have a shot at a star player. I believe we need to be strongly vigilant against that kind of thinking.

This....... But Mrs. Spapso who doesn't follow the Leafs nor is a hockey fan to begin with disagrees. Does that change your opinion?
- burn

It is a good and strong point that you make. These guys don't seem to be able to develop players. As you know I believe the entire Schenn affair is so disappointing. It may sound contradictory but I do not believe it is to believe that the only way for the Leafs to get good at developing talent is to close off the other options. The Oilers are succeeding because they have clearly mapped out a strong drafting and development strategy. How many times do you see people here on this site saying they are prepared to give up next year's #1 in a deal for Ryan or Nash. When we say the Leafs are committed to rebuilding everyone understands that the plan can be cancelled if we have a shot at a star player. I believe we need to be strongly vigilant against that kind of thinking.
- spatso

Like the Sens and Nash??

- The_Vark

Do you believe that!!

Like the Sens and Nash??
- burn

Big mistake for Ottawa to chase Nash or Ryan.

It is a good and strong point that you make. These guys don't seem to be able to develop players. As you know I believe the entire Schenn affair is so disappointing. It may sound contradictory but I do not believe it is to believe that the only way for the Leafs to get good at developing talent is to close off the other options. The Oilers are succeeding because they have clearly mapped out a strong drafting and development strategy. How many times do you see people here on this site saying they are prepared to give up next year's #1 in a deal for Ryan or Nash. When we say the Leafs are committed to rebuilding everyone understands that the plan can be cancelled if we have a shot at a star player. I believe we need to be strongly vigilant against that kind of thinking.
- spatso

Succeeding they finish last every year and have proved nothing

Drafting strategy They pick first every year they get to pick a can't miss player theres not stategy involved tambi might be the worst GM in the NHL fact

It is a good and strong point that you make. These guys don't seem to be able to develop players. As you know I believe the entire Schenn affair is so disappointing. It may sound contradictory but I do not believe it is to believe that the only way for the Leafs to get good at developing talent is to close off the other options. The Oilers are succeeding because they have clearly mapped out a strong drafting and development strategy. How many times do you see people here on this site saying they are prepared to give up next year's #1 in a deal for Ryan or Nash. When we say the Leafs are committed to rebuilding everyone understands that the plan can be cancelled if we have a shot at a star player. I believe we need to be strongly vigilant against that kind of thinking.
- spatso

What??

Succeeding they finish last every year and have proved nothing

Drafting strategy They pick first every year they get to pick a can't miss player theres not stategy involved tambi might be the worst GM in the NHL fact
- The_Vark

Yeah, but what does Mrs. Spatso think of this strategy?

What??
- burn

I see that two for truth guy is UG ....

Someone should ban that cock stain