The doom and gloom comes from getting bounced early 3 strait seasons and the fact this team isn't better than last year. Yes you replaced asham and Sutter will step in defensively but don't forgt Staal was an offensive factor this year and our best player in the playoffs. And we all hope despres steps in to z's spot and plqys well but that remains to be seen. If he isn't capable your looking at like a 24 minute hole in the defens. Also don't tell me you feel comfortable with Tk or tangradi in the top 6. There are glaring holes on this team physicality being the most important. But top 6 is incomplete at the moment. I'm willing to wait until the season starts to pass judgement and I'm personally glad they didn't get Suter and parise but the trades he mad indicated to me that something lose was to follow. Still waiting
- dbell646

It's easy to recognize what lead to the playoff losses and for the most part they can't be fixed with a trade or signing.

Montreal - Hottest goalie in the world. He was peppered by two offensively dominant teams and won both series.

Tampa Bay - Injuries to Crosby and Malkin, and a PP that went 1-37. Directly connected to the injuries.

Philly - Is the hardest to understand what went wrong, but it seemed to be a team wide mental lapse, especially seeing how they easily could have won games 1 and 2 if they hadn't fallen asleep.

A healthy Crosby will help to ease the pain of the loss of Staal and Sullivans offense loss. They combined for 98 points. We've all seen Crosby destroy that number.

I would like to see the top 6 hole filled, I would have like Parise, or Doan for that spot. I'm even willing to give Semin a look, but like you said, let's wait until after the season to judge this team as a failure.

kuni guerin
- nh4442

And at the time would either of them be considered on a level with Parise, Kane, or Nash. Guerin earlier in his career might have.

It's easy to recognize what lead to the playoff losses and for the most part they can't be fixed with a trade or signing.

Montreal - Hottest goalie in the world. He was peppered by two offensively dominant teams and won both series.

Tampa Bay - Injuries to Crosby and Malkin, and a PP that went 1-37. Directly connected to the injuries.

Philly - Is the hardest to understand what went wrong, but it seemed to be a team wide mental lapse, especially seeing how they easily could have won games 1 and 2 if they hadn't fallen asleep.

A healthy Crosby will help to ease the pain of the loss of Staal and Sullivans offense loss. They combined for 98 points. We've all seen Crosby destroy that number.

I would like to see the top 6 hole filled, I would have like Parise, or Doan for that spot. I'm even willing to give Semin a look, but like you said, let's wait until after the season to judge this team as a failure.
- Ben37

I don't give them a pass on any of those. Montreal didn't win the cup that year so someone figured it out. Tampa was down 3-1 regardless of who was injured and the philly series was just embarrassing. I'm not passing judgement on the season I'm passing judgement on the roster as it is constructed today prior to the season without any moves being made. Yes it's good enough to win some games and get into the playoffs but unless they make some changes it will be more of the same. I'm not doubting there are moves coming they have to. He either moves some dmen or he loses them on waivers.

plus/minus is the worst stat in hockey I don't put much value in that. He was on our pk and blocked about 150 shots a year while here. I'm not Saying he is Shea Weber but you better have someone ready to eat those minutes and block those same 150 shots. I'm not passing judgement on the roster until the season actually starts. However if people feel its been disappointing up to this point I'd say that's a pretty fair assessment and this team isn't in a better position to win a cup right now then last season. I actually think until a guy like Despres proves he is what we think he is this team is worse. Again neither of us can prove either way until they actually play. And when you move a core player like staal the fan base is looking for you to add another core guy and that hasn't happened and possibly won't.
- dbell646

Can't disagree with your logic but nothing in Despres' game leads me to believe he wont be really good, just my opinion.

Can't disagree with your logic but nothing in Despres' game leads me to believe he wont be really good, just my opinion.
- Gunner Staal

Especially since he didnt look out of place at all in the Philly series(same goes for Strait) and we were all praising their abilities to make the simple plays to get the puck out of our zone.
On that note, I find it curious Shero hasnt moved Lovejoy yet even for a bag of pucks. I dont see where he fits in especially since he has been jumped on the depth chart by Strait and Despres. Depending on how camp goes The same might be said for Morrow or Harrington.

And at the time would either of them be considered on a level with Parise, Kane, or Nash. Guerin earlier in his career might have.
- Ben37

Guerin was a huge name coming in and he brought his grit and toughness to that line along with kuni...

so i feel if it is going to be sid and dupes, which it looks like, I think we need a toughness to the line like iggy or doan.. If the pens get semin, then he would replace dupes and someone still needs to be brought in...

thats just how i feel...

edit: i also feel after eading the pens prospect notes that we are stacked on d and some might need to be traded to soon to make room for these guys... cough martin and lovejoy cough

Can't disagree with your logic but nothing in Despres' game leads me to believe he wont be really good, just my opinion.
- Gunner Staal

I agree but having a bigger role over a full year gives him a lot more opportunities to look average. I don't think that will happen but who knows.

plus/minus is the worst stat in hockey I don't put much value in that. He was on our pk and blocked about 150 shots a year while here. I'm not Saying he is Shea Weber but you better have someone ready to eat those minutes and block those same 150 shots. I'm not passing judgement on the roster until the season actually starts. However if people feel its been disappointing up to this point I'd say that's a pretty fair assessment and this team isn't in a better position to win a cup right now then last season. I actually think until a guy like Despres proves he is what we think he is this team is worse. Again neither of us can prove either way until they actually play. And when you move a core player like staal the fan base is looking for you to add another core guy and that hasn't happened and possibly won't.
- dbell646

Not saying plus/minus is a great stat, but I think over a career when you look at that cumulative number you can get a decent read on the player. I mean, if it served no purpose, why would they use it.

Anyway, I guess my larger point is it seems Z got a bit of a pass when his overall body of work here was really not very good. In 2 years, Z was inconsistent at best. Also seems that Martin, who did have 1 good year, got/gets the bulk of the criticism.

To your point about losing a core player and not adding another.... Well that wasn't exactly in their control. Most people think they did a hell of job getting back what they got. I'm confident Shero will make the moves necessary to make this a top contender either this summer or possibly we might need to wait 'til the deadline. If we get Sid healthy for the whole year they'll be fine.

I agree but having a bigger role over a full year gives him a lot more opportunities to look average. I don't think that will happen but who knows.
- dbell646

Nobody can know for sure. I have no scientific way of knowing other than I feel good about it, and when Marc Andre-Gragnani was having a good playoff for Buffalo I said he sucked, people thought I was being too negative, well he does suck.

Not saying plus/minus is a great stat, but I think over a career when you look at that cumulative number you can get a decent read on the player. I mean, if it served no purpose, why would they use it.

Anyway, I guess my larger point is it seems Z got a bit of a pass when his overall body of work here was really not very good. In 2 years, Z was inconsistent at best. Also seems that Martin, who did have 1 good year, got/gets the bulk of the criticism.

To your point about losing a core player and not adding another.... Well that wasn't exactly in their control. Most people think they did a hell of job getting back what they got. I'm confident Shero will make the moves necessary to make this a top contender either this summer or possibly we might need to wait 'til the deadline. If we get Sid healthy for the whole year they'll be fine.
- madmike71

Relative Corsi and Corsi stats are out there now, there really is no reason to use the +/- stat anymore IMO.

Nobody can know for sure. I have no scientific way of knowing other than I feel good about it, and when Marc Andre-Gragnani was having a good playoff for Buffalo I said he sucked, people thought I was being too negative, well he does suck.
- Gunner Staal

Its the basic eye test, and as I put in my previous post both Strait and Despres passed it when called up during the Philly series.

Nobody can know for sure. I have no scientific way of knowing other than I feel good about it, and when Marc Andre-Gragnani was having a good playoff for Buffalo I said he sucked, people thought I was being too negative, well he does suck.
- Gunner Staal

I've been patiently waiting for Despres to get this opportunity and I'm excited to see him. However I'm a little nervous about it. I liked Z I didn't think he was a great defenseman but hey I didn't think Scudderri was great either. And we all missed him when he was gone and wanted him back. And the majority of Pens fans hated him while he was here.

Especially since he didnt look out of place at all in the Philly series(same goes for Strait) and we were all praising their abilities to make the simple plays to get the puck out of our zone.
On that note, I find it curious Shero hasnt moved Lovejoy yet even for a bag of pucks. I dont see where he fits in especially since he has been jumped on the depth chart by Strait and Despres. Depending on how camp goes The same might be said for Morrow or Harrington.
- Rawdog9755

I hope Morrow isnt rushed, but i guess if he turns heads that much what can you do. However, with despres, i am very confident he will excel and am very excited to see how he plays given a full time role. Lovejoy needs to just go. likable guy, but i just have not, and will not, ever forgive that pass that led to the coots goal. indicative of the whole series in my mind.

I've been patiently waiting for Despres to get this opportunity and I'm excited to see him. However I'm a little nervous about it. I liked Z I didn't think he was a great defenseman but hey I didn't think Scudderri was great either. And we all missed him when he was gone and wanted him back. And the majority of Pens fans hated him while he was here.
- dbell646

Scuds had heart which is something you couldnt see in Michalek or Martin during their tenures thus far with the Pens, and the thing that still stings about Scuds is he wanted to be here. Hindsight being what it is, I think Shero without a doubt would give him the deal LA did.

I hope Morrow isnt rushed, but i guess if he turns heads that much what can you do. However, with despres, i am very confident he will excel and am very excited to see how he plays given a full time role. Lovejoy needs to just go. likable guy, but i just have not, and will not, ever forgive that pass that led to the coots goal. indicative of the whole series in my mind.
- stayinthefnnet

I dont think Morrow can be rushed given the logjam in front of him. Unless he comes out looking unstoppable like a Calder candidate then he plays in WB/S(injuries could change this of course).
I agree on Lovejoy. He has become a D version of Letestu--expendable because of depth.

Anybody ever make a minor change to something but you had to do it 30 times? I am learning how fun that is right now.

I dont think Morrow can be rushed given the logjam in front of him. Unless he comes out looking unstoppable like a Calder candidate then he plays in WB/S(injuries could change this of course).
I agree on Lovejoy. He has become a D version of Letestu--expendable because of depth.
- Rawdog9755

He still has another season of Jr. left before he goes to WB/S. I hope he makes the U20 for Canada if he doesn't make the Penguins.

kuni guerin
- nh4442

..and those are decent players.

Ideally, in the perfect world, I'd like to see Dustin Brown, Jamie Benn and Evander Kane on our top 6. What we need is grit/skilled players.

Brown - Crosby - Benn
Kane - Malkin - Neal

..and those are decent players.

Ideally, in the perfect world, I'd like to see Dustin Brown, Jamie Benn and Evander Kane on our top 6. What we need is grit/skilled players.

Brown - Crosby - Benn
Kane - Malkin - Neal
- Orpik44

God bless EA Sports because that is the only place I think you'll achieve that haha.

God bless EA Sports because that is the only place I think you'll achieve that haha.
- Gunner Staal

we all know the world ain't perfect so... pipe dream

Anyway...what I'd like to see on Crosby's wings are players on the Kunitz/Guerin mode...

we all know the world ain't perfect so... pipe dream

Anyway...what I'd like to see on Crosby's wings are players on the Kunitz/Guerin mode...
- Orpik44

For all the skill Crosby has, he plays a meat and potatoes style and works well with those kind of players.

For all the skill Crosby has, he plays a meat and potatoes style and works well with those kind of players.
- Gunner Staal

Since my true sport is soccer I like to mold myself in this kind of player. Good offensively (good shot/don't loose the ball easily/pass mentality) and Above average on D (responsible for your guy at all times/don't let him scape EVER)

It is really hard to match anybody that plays the game the RIGHT WAY

Scuds had heart which is something you couldnt see in Michalek or Martin during their tenures thus far with the Pens, and the thing that still stings about Scuds is he wanted to be here. Hindsight being what it is, I think Shero without a doubt would give him the deal LA did.
- Rawdog9755

What did Z do to demonstrate he doesn't play with heart? I mean laying your body in front of 150 shots I'd say you aren't playing a soft game.

What did Z do to demonstrate he doesn't play with heart? I mean laying your body in front of 150 shots I'd say you aren't playing a soft game.
- dbell646

Just calling it how I see it. Blocking shots is not necessarily an indication of heart, especially when he should have been playing up more often.

Just calling it how I see it. Blocking shots is not necessarily an indication of heart, especially when he should have been playing up more often.
- Rawdog9755

You have to really want to win to lay your body down in front of 100 mph shots. I just never saw him quit or say anything that indicated he didn't want to be here. I'm not a huge Z fan I just respected him and I thought this system was all wrong for his style. I didn't think it was lack of effort or heart.