Very true, good point...... He's due 6.7 per or something like that for 3-4-5 more years, at a cap hit of 5.3, correct?
- Mr Ricochet

Yeah, and then it drops off to 3 and then 1 I think. At that point, he is a great fit for a team spending to the floor, but before that, not so much.

Agreed, but who will be willing to take a chance on him, because you know they will be looking for a "kings ransom" in return (sorry, couldn't help myself).
- 1970vintage

Depends on what you consider a "king's ransom" a 1st, solid prospect, and a roster player would probably get it done for a WC team and probably a little less for an EC team. He is highly thought of but still has only played 35 games in 2 years with an average GAA.

Love your perspective, Al. Remember though we are talking about a guy in Tallon who signed Huet to way too much money. He's a great evaluater but he misses as well.

Al, for discussions sake what do you think of a 5.3 mil cap hit for a #2 goalie 4-5 years from now? I'm of the belief Lou would be fine until 37-38, but would probably be reduced to backup status around that age.

Also Al talking about Florida's owner and the money needed for Lou, the Panthers need to get to the cap floor. Adding Lou at an important position is much better than signing a Kopecky to get to the floor.
- Mr Ricochet

I think G is the position that no gm has a proble overpaying for in FA, if you have an elite goalie you always have a chance to win

This years CBA should be interesting. I think the have's and the have not owners will be looking for a better deal from the NHL. I think teams like TOR PHI VAN NYR are going to be looking at reducing the profit sharing . Owners will realize why the hell should they support cities that could care less about hockey. When teams have trouble making the cap space floor should other teams really be supporting them ?
- VANTEL

Forget reducing profit sharing as the #1 priority - it should be getting out of the sinkhole in Phoenix that Bettman loves so much.

Very true, good point...... He's due 6.7 per or something like that for 3-4-5 more years, at a cap hit of 5.3, correct?
- Mr Ricochet

He's due an average of 4.7.

I think they lost a lot of dough in the last 10 years or so and were getting desperate with Cohen.

I knew of people who had season tix down there going back 5 years ago....There were not many but...

They would get irate becasue the people next to them, in the lower bowl, would get seats at half price or less.

At one time I think if you bought a ticket to a Panther game and presented the stub at the box office after, you could get two tix free to the next game.

Bill Wirtz lost $20-30 mill per yr. here after the lockout for awhile and he owned the building etc....So I think it is safe to say on the hockey side the Panthers were deeply in red ink.

But it takes money to make money and now ownership will spend, just like they did last summer.
- Al

I was one of those season ticket holders at that time. While I never saw "two free tickets to the next game" deals, I DID see bargains on game day for lower bowl seats. Yup, we WERE angered. As an upper deck guy, it did piss you off, knowing that your tickets cost you as much as a fan or worst an OPPOSING fan sitting in a good spot for YOUR price down in the lower bowl. All I can say is Dale Tallon and Bill Torrey for getting Tallon here get lots of credit. As far as Panther top brass, they can still piss a fan off. Now they have a newly constructed "Club Red" exclusive area that have displaced many die hards who've had seats in the club red location. We have a very loyal fan base here, and with ALL the crappy seasons we've seen here, and continued to show up, and NEVER been at the bottom of attendance...It takes alot to sometimes put up with these huckster CEO-COO types/bean counters that make up the Panthers.

I know you were talking to Al, but...

The one problem with a Luongo to Florida trade is that the actual dollars Lu is getting paid are higher than his cap hit, which is not typically the scenario a team trying to reach the cap floor is looking for. It makes much more sense for a "rich" team that can afford to pay more, but get a lower cap hit, such as Chicago, Detroit, Philly, Vancouver, etc.
- 1970vintage

This bothers me. Should a city have a team where you pay $30.00 to get an ice level seat ,a beer, and a hotdog be supported by the other owners?

10 teams still have over 20 mil in cap space ,and surprise surprise it is all the usual suspects. Fla Pho NYI Nsh Car Ott Dal Wpg StL Ana .Is it really fair that the talent level gets spread so thin to provide players to cities that don't care?

Depends on what you consider a "king's ransom" a 1st, solid prospect, and a roster player would probably get it done for a WC team and probably a little less for an EC team. He is highly thought of but still has only played 35 games in 2 years with an average GAA.
- Tuke17

Right, so would Chicago be willing to part with all of that for a goalie that might not be an upgrade on what you have already?

good photoshop job


- 1970vintage

EKolb is gonna love this.

I think G is the position that no gm has a proble overpaying for in FA, if you have an elite goalie you always have a chance to win
- MindFr3eak

Not the way the Hawks brass as currently constructed sees this. As Al has been pointing out since the alleged play for Broduer, if the Hawks are willing to pay a goalie 5 mil per they have changed their philosophy.

Hawks think they can win on the cheap in goal.

This bothers me. Should a city have a team where you pay $30.00 to get an ice level seat ,a beer, and a hotdog be supported by the other owners?

10 teams still have over 20 mil in cap space ,and surprise surprise it is all the usual suspects. Fla Pho NYI Nsh Car Ott Dal Wpg StL Ana .Is it really fair that the talent level gets spread so thin to provide players to cities that don't care?
- VANTEL

We care, we just don't break glass and burn things to prove it.

Love your perspective, Al. Remember though we are talking about a guy in Tallon who signed Huet to way too much money. He's a great evaluater but he misses as well.

Al, for discussions sake what do you think of a 5.3 mil cap hit for a #2 goalie 4-5 years from now? I'm of the belief Lou would be fine until 37-38, but would probably be reduced to backup status around that age.

Also Al talking about Florida's owner and the money needed for Lou, the Panthers need to get to the cap floor. Adding Lou at an important position is much better than signing a Kopecky to get to the floor.
- Mr Ricochet

Mr. R.,

Tallon misses but not very often on prospects. If I was grading he would be way above average in evaluating youg players and below average on signing NHL free agents.

If the cap is $85 mill in five years, $5 mil for a back up would be easier to swallow as long as he gave you a number of high qulaity years as a starter.

This bothers me. Should a city have a team where you pay $30.00 to get an ice level seat ,a beer, and a hotdog be supported by the other owners?

10 teams still have over 20 mil in cap space ,and surprise surprise it is all the usual suspects. Fla Pho NYI Nsh Car Ott Dal Wpg StL Ana .Is it really fair that the talent level gets spread so thin to provide players to cities that don't care?
- VANTEL

Except Carolina and Anaheim took their shot and it paid off, along with TB. I liked the baseball comparison of a cap, but if you want to spend more, fill your boots, you just have to pay a luxury tax to the other teams, a la the NYY.

This years CBA should be interesting. I think the have's and the have not owners will be looking for a better deal from the NHL. I think teams like TOR PHI VAN NYR are going to be looking at reducing the profit sharing . Owners will realize why the hell should they support cities that could care less about hockey. When teams have trouble making the cap space floor should other teams really be supporting them ?
- VANTEL

That's been the rub for awhile...It finally seems with the increased TV coverage the game could grow in US and be more pofitable. But the big market teams have carried the load and you can throw Chgo in there now too over the last 4 yrs...

As I have broougt up a few times before that's why I doubt any significant CBA changes will hurt the big mkt franchises.

I was one of those season ticket holders at that time. While I never saw "two free tickets to the next game" deals, I DID see bargains on game day for lower bowl seats. Yup, we WERE angered. As an upper deck guy, it did piss you off, knowing that your tickets cost you as much as a fan or worst an OPPOSING fan sitting in a good spot for YOUR price down in the lower bowl. All I can say is Dale Tallon and Bill Torrey for getting Tallon here get lots of credit. As far as Panther top brass, they can still piss a fan off. Now they have a newly constructed "Club Red" exclusive area that have displaced many die hards who've had seats in the club red location. We have a very loyal fan base here, and with ALL the crappy seasons we've seen here, and continued to show up, and NEVER been at the bottom of attendance...It takes alot to sometimes put up with these huckster CEO-COO types/bean counters that make up the Panthers.
- PanthersGoal

Being a consistent winner year over year and playing an exciting brand of hockey cures alot of attendance problems. The only exception to that is Toronto, where you don't need to ever win to sell the joint out at ghastly, overinflated prices.

Good luck to the Panthers - but please how about getting some decently designed hockey uniforms. Not as bad as Nashville's and never as bad as Atlanta's, but seriously they need an upgrade.

We care, we just don't break glass and burn things to prove it.
- PanthersGoal

No you don't care . Is your building sold out every game? Fans should be willing to pay 40 bucks min to go to a game. It should be sold out every game. All teams like Fla Car Pho do is dillute the talent pool so we get to see the likes of Higgins or Raymond playing on our third line instead of real talent.

This bothers me. Should a city have a team where you pay $30.00 to get an ice level seat ,a beer, and a hotdog be supported by the other owners?


- VANTEL

Van, as Stiengrabber of the Yankees found out way back when you need an opponent. If you have to subsidize him so you can win trophies and make a profit, you do so.

Unless you take the NFL model of profit sharing this is what you have.

Mr. R.,

Tallon misses but not very often on prospects. If I was grading he would be way above average in evaluating youg players and below average on signing NHL free agents.

If the cap is $85 mill in five years, $5 mil for a back up would be easier to swallow as long as he gave you a number of high qulaity years as a starter.
- Al

I think you have it backwards. While Dale did struggle somewhat with free agents, his best area was trades (Sharp, Ladd, Versteeg, etc.). That falls under evaluating NHL talent. His drafts were for the most part very poor, besides the gimme picks (Toews, Kane, etc.).

I know you were talking to Al, but...

The one problem with a Luongo to Florida trade is that the actual dollars Lu is getting paid are higher than his cap hit, which is not typically the scenario a team trying to reach the cap floor is looking for. It makes much more sense for a "rich" team that can afford to pay more, but get a lower cap hit, such as Chicago, Detroit, Philly, Vancouver, etc.
- 1970vintage

That's a point I tried to make earlier but you did it better...

I overstated BobbyLu's salary as $8 mill instead of close to $6 mill per through 2018, but the point is the same, that's a chunk for the next 5 years for an owner to swallow....

Except Carolina and Anaheim took their shot and it paid off, along with TB. I liked the baseball comparison of a cap, but if you want to spend more, fill your boots, you just have to pay a luxury tax to the other teams, a la the NYY.
- 1970vintage

I like the luxury tax too . In baseball you have about 10 teams year after year that are in the running. Bettman loves the parody. I think it stinks that a team like PHO who is NHL owned beat the Hawks. They had a super goalie paid for by the other teams to beat a team that needed a goalie. How is this good for the league?

Versteeg, Theodore, Howden is the deal about to be announced.
- Scooby_Doo

do it now

Mr. R.,

Tallon misses but not very often on prospects. If I was grading he would be way above average in evaluating youg players and below average on signing NHL free agents.


- Al

Agreed! Guy is a first rate evaluater. Needs work on free agents and cap management too........

And as far as Huet it can be argued he was "nudged" by McD to add him. So maybe he gets a bit of a pass here.

But as I mentioned awhile back if I'm gonna lose at the horse track I'm gonna lose with my selection. Even if Dale doesn't like Markstrom, I do and so do a lot of sharp ones.

I like the luxury tax too . In baseball you have about 10 teams year after year that are in the running. Bettman loves the parody. I think it stinks that a team like PHO who is NHL owned beat the Hawks. They had a super goalie paid for by the other teams to beat a team that needed a goalie. How is this good for the league?
- VANTEL

I think it would look worse to the league if they folded. That would be a horrible mistake. If they were purchased by Mr. Blackberry, they'd probably be busted by now as well, so..in reality, it's the right thing to do.

I think you approach this Luongo situation the same way Stan played his pre-draft hand: we don't "need" anything.
How many teams are beating the door down with offers?

No NHL team can deny Luongo's quickness agility and what he adds to the battle.

No denying how he had for so long always been mentioned in the top listings.

The question remains - why is his team moving him, besides the fact they have an emerging goaltender. His contract, an apparent back slide, and maybe a mutual feeling of his workload are the reasons.

I think with most teams who might have been or are interested, teams had a plan, and adding Luongo, the contract and knowing the guy has to play to be happy and effective, it may be requiring a re-evaluation on what the organizational plan is.


I just think NHL teams are not going out of their way to give trade asset,s unless they are also ridding themselves of their present goalie's contract.
..and that doesn't seem like Vancouver is taking another hefty salary for a 'tender who is gonna be on ride bench while your team develops the kid goaltender?

So NO MATTER HOW good a goaltender Luongo presently is, there are few matches where teams are going to be romancing Canucks and Lu with hopes to pay a non-bargain sum to get him.

Then there is Luongo, now ramping the pressure by continuing to vocalize he needs to move on, Chicago would be great, and knowing ultimately he decides his destination with the NTC.

This seesm very very similar to the Nash situation in that the GM DOES have some time to react, but IF the season /return remains scketchy.

THERE ARE THINGS AS FANS WE DON'T KNOW...where the GMs see the season beginning.

But I don't think Stan or any GM is gonna be throwing prospects picks and players at Vancouver at this point. It is easier to wait as the situation heats to heightened pressure in B.C.

...and they come looking for a quick resolution at that later time.

Being a consistent winner year over year and playing an exciting brand of hockey cures alot of attendance problems. The only exception to that is Toronto, where you don't need to ever win to sell the joint out at ghastly, overinflated prices.

Good luck to the Panthers - but please how about getting some decently designed hockey uniforms. Not as bad as Nashville's and never as bad as Atlanta's, but seriously they need an upgrade.
- RickJ

I love our logo. The ORIGINALS that were worn by the likes of Mellanby, Skrudland etc. were very cool. These current ones aren't bad, HOWEVER those Pittsburgh blue alternates were GOD AWFUL!