That will be a huge improvement...Now, I'm gonna ask you a question I've posed a few times here, but no one will answer...How bad is Reimer? Will he grow and develop better with Carlyle's defense first system? I'm asking cause I'm not sure he's the problem...
- Flyfreaky

We need to see him without the injury situation. IMO he has been more good than bad, and the bad was only following the injury. Even after the injury it wasn't ALL bad. I'm not ready to write him off.

Then upgrade without taking on an enormous contract, if not, stick to the plan

Time and time again the leafs have taken on players on the backside of their careers.. Limiting ice time for younger players, and clogging the system for years at a time

The leafs simply are not at the compete level they need to be to go and get a goalie to "put them over the top"

Don't get me wrong, I believe luongo is an excellent goalie, I just think it will cause more harm than good for the leafs at this point in time
- Dozzer

This. 100X this!!

Crazy is sticking to one point regardless of contrary opinion or fact.

Sorta like what you're doing.
- Dozzer

Well, I watched a good handful of Leafs games and never thought he was a glaring weakness...I'd rather have him than Bryz...
- Flyfreaky

It all where you pin the blame. For me it was Wilson's run high tempo forecheck

1: left the goalies hung out to dry for a chance to push forward

2: took defensive minded players out of their element (schenn for example)

3: their youth carried the success for the first half.. Once the rest of the league tightened up defensively (typically middle to end of season) the holes left by the leafs offense became more and more exposed

I think Reimer could do alright with allaires coaching and carlyles more defensive minded structure

This. 100X this!!
- burn

Yeah a vet goalie for a couple years? Sure why not. Long term? No, I don't think it's the way to go

It all where you pin the blame. For me it was Wilson's run high tempo forecheck

1: left the goalies hung out to dry for a chance to push forward

2: took defensive minded players out of their element (schenn for example)

3: their youth carried the success for the first half.. Once the rest of the league tightened up defensively (typically middle to end of season) the holes left by the leafs offense became more and more exposed

I think Reimer could do alright with allaires coaching and carlyles more defensive minded structure
- Dozzer

said it all year, well before the collapse. there were those that said "relax we're in 1st in the conference, it's Nov"...... then it was "relax it's Dec we're still in the payoffs".

It all where you pin the blame. For me it was Wilson's run high tempo forecheck

1: left the goalies hung out to dry for a chance to push forward

2: took defensive minded players out of their element (schenn for example)

3: their youth carried the success for the first half.. Once the rest of the league tightened up defensively (typically middle to end of season) the holes left by the leafs offense became more and more exposed

I think Reimer could do alright with allaires coaching and carlyles more defensive minded structure
- Dozzer

I think that's a very underrated point...New system can allow much growth to certain players...In this case Reimer...I just saw the Flyers offered Parise $110m...

Yeah a vet goalie for a couple years? Sure why not. Long term? No, I don't think it's the way to go
- Dozzer

A vet goalie no one wants or can afford but us on a massive overpayment?? Hell no.

Crazy is sticking to one point regardless of contrary opinion or fact.

Sorta like what you're doing.
- Dozzer

If Theodore is a plug then it doesnt speak too highly of the Leafs tandem cause Theodore is light years better than both leaf goalies.

I think that's a very underrated point...New system can allow much growth to certain players...In this case Reimer...I just saw the Flyers offered Parise $110m...
- Flyfreaky

For the same 13 year term?!

A vet goalie no one wants or can afford but us on a massive overpayment?? Hell no.
- burn

I should clarify.. Vet goalie for a couple years.. Bearable.... Not preferable

If Theodore is a plug then it doesnt speak too highly of the Leafs tandem cause Theodore is light years better than both leaf goalies.
- eihcnerf

Okay?

Did I miss something? Theodore?

A vet goalie no one wants or can afford but us on a massive overpayment?? Hell no.
- burn

8 years and counting with no playoffs? Pogge, Toskala, Giggy, Monster, Reimer, Raycroft.
Hell yes. We want more of these, why wouldn't we. No goalie issues to see here folks.Besides, elite goalies are available all time. What's the rush?

If Theodore is a plug then it doesnt speak too highly of the Leafs tandem cause Theodore is light years better than both leaf goalies.
- eihcnerf

And he's a righty!

8 years and counting with no playoffs? Pogge, Toskala, Giggy, Monster, Reimer, Raycroft.
Hell yes. We want more of these, why wouldn't we. No goalie issues to see here folks.Besides, elite goalies are available all time. What's the rush?
- Gunslinger

You are making your own arguments... Not sure what your agenda is.

You are making your own arguments... Not sure what your agenda is.
- burn

'


I think his argument is that Luongo would make this team better. And I gotta say I agree with him.

'


I think his argument is that Luongo would make this team better. And I gotta say I agree with him.
- weirdoh

Thank you
I'm also saying we've tried the half assed effort of getting non elite goalies with horrid results. This isn't the same as giving up quality for Raycroft or Toskala. Elite goalies like luongo are rarely available. If you have the chance to grab them do it. We've seen the results since Belfour left on how hard it is find or develop a top tier goalie. Do we really want to keep going with what hasn't worked?

Thank you
I'm also saying we've tried the half assed effort of getting non elite goalies with horrid results. This isn't the same as giving up quality for Raycroft or Toskala. Elite goalies like luongo are rarely available. If you have the chance to grab them do it. We've seen the results since Belfour left on how hard it is find or develop a top tier goalie. Do we really want to keep going with what hasn't worked?
- Gunslinger

I think the problem is that people think that the draft is the only way to go. That it hurts the team more if a trade is made than if not. I sort of see where they are going with not wanting to trade that 1st rounder. But lets be honest, this team isn't a bottom 10 team with a goalie like Luongo. How many games did the Leafs lose last year by a poopty floater from the blue line? I know this team doesn't have the greatest D, but if you put something a little more stable behind that would be able to cover for some of the mistakes....cripes it'd be something we haven't seen in quite a while.

I think the problem is that people think that the draft is the only way to go. That it hurts the team more if a trade is made than if not. I sort of see where they are going with not wanting to trade that 1st rounder. But lets be honest, this team isn't a bottom 10 team with a goalie like Luongo. How many games did the Leafs lose last year by a poopty floater from the blue line? I know this team doesn't have the greatest D, but if you put something a little more stable behind that would be able to cover for some of the mistakes....cripes it'd be something we haven't seen in quite a while.
- weirdoh

Nobody wants to lose a 1st I see that point too.

Nobody wants to lose a 1st I see that point too.
- Gunslinger

Hey, we can keep drafting Tlusty's and Schenn's instead of getting Luongo with those First Round picks, right?

Seriously though, I'd say trading the 2014 1st wouldn't be a horrible idea seeing as that's when:

A) Vancouver could like begin to hit a downturn if they haven't already
B) We'll be competitive enough with Trades (Luongo) prospects and new FA's filling in holes in our line up to consistently make playoffs
C) Can actually begin attracting FA's because the team is on the cusp of being a contender

2014 1st, Kadri, MacCarther, Salary Dump, and some conditional crap for Raymond/Luongo and a 2nd

'


I think his argument is that Luongo would make this team better. And I gotta say I agree with him.
- weirdoh

And no one disagreed.

even if the difference between luongo and another goalie the leafs use is 4-5 extra wins its totally worth it. its 10 pts closer to the playoffs.

which is the amount of points we've been missing them by for the last few years

Hey, we can keep drafting Tlusty's and Schenn's instead of getting Luongo with those First Round picks, right?

Seriously though, I'd say trading the 2014 1st wouldn't be a horrible idea seeing as that's when:

A) Vancouver could like begin to hit a downturn if they haven't already
B) We'll be competitive enough with Trades (Luongo) prospects and new FA's filling in holes in our line up to consistently make playoffs
C) Can actually begin attracting FA's because the team is on the cusp of being a contender

2014 1st, Kadri, MacCarther, Salary Dump, and some conditional crap for Raymond/Luongo and a 2nd
- Viktory

That's brutal.... and they are talking about 2013, why would VAN agree to take a pick 2 years in the future?

And no one disagreed.
- burn

Great then. So you agree they should pursue Luongo. Even if it means trading a first, if absolutely necessary.

even if the difference between luongo and another goalie the leafs use is 4-5 extra wins its totally worth it. its 10 pts closer to the playoffs.

which is the amount of points we've been missing them by for the last few years
- twiztedmike