- FlyerMike18

ok genius, what's next?

I'd rather see the kids play and get the ice time and responsibility to grow. I also think that they need size and grit in the top 9 more than a guy like Semin. I do think there's a bit of an attitude issue, too...just not as severe as Zherdev.

I could probably be convinced of Semin on a one year deal for less money, but he's far from my first, or even third choice.
- Jsaquella

I still think they need a legitimate winger for Giroux -- I'd take Semin in a heartbeat -- still leaves plenty of ice for the kids.

A team would much rather overpay a marginal player who can at least contribute on the ice to reach the cap floor.

Another team isn't going to pay Pronger nearly 20 million dollars to sit at home. Zero chance.
- PLindbergh31

See my prior post. I changed the facts. End of next year - $15m to pay Pronger, Flyers pay $10m, Flyers give a 2nd pick in exchange for a 6th round pick.

I'll let this go - just curious but in summary the rules are very punishing for legit (I believe so) contracts such a Pronger with subsequent career ending injuries.

I deal with economics and fairness for a living and the lawyers always manage to screw things up. Job creation though.

we don't have enuf on d to win a cup anyway. this is a transition yr where homer will evaluate the progress of the kids and see what he's got going into the TDL...not the way I would've handled things but, that's the reality.
- isaiah520

I don't have a problem with Holmgren's approach. I will say he did not improve the team "on paper" but hockey isn't played on paper. Flyers have a solid young core that should be given the room to mature together.

I think the depth has taken a bit of a hit, if we get the usual rash of injuries like every other year, the lineup will be somewhat thin.

As far as I know it would be legal to do so. But Pronger is owed 19M over the next however many years. I don't see a team investing that amount of cash just to try and meet the Cap floor. So not very realistic.
- MJL

It only works if Pronger chooses to retire rather than hang around to collect as the acquiring team wouldn't want to actually pay the money. This is the scenario with Tim Thomas possibly waiving his no trade this year.

It was previously debated as to whether he would retire or collect the paycheck.

I still think they need a legitimate winger for Giroux -- I'd take Semin in a heartbeat -- still leaves plenty of ice for the kids.
- flyersfan51

Maybe Schenn can be that legitimate winger. Or Voracek.

People seem upset that Gervais will block an undrafted FA in Gustafsson, but are more than willing to jump in and add a guy who will block kids like Schenn, Voracek and even Simmonds

It only works if Pronger chooses to retire rather than hang around to collect as the acquiring team wouldn't want to actually pay the money. This is the scenario with Tim Thomas possibly waiving his no trade this year.

It was previously debated as to whether he would retire or collect the paycheck.
- TheGreat28

Can you trade a retired player though? I don't think so but maybe you can.

I don't have a problem with Holmgren's approach. I will say he did not improve the team "on paper" but hockey isn't played on paper. Flyers have a solid young core that should be given the room to mature together.

I think the depth has taken a bit of a hit, if we get the usual rash of injuries like every other year, the lineup will be somewhat thin.
- PLindbergh31

The two most worrisome things I see are injuries on defense and how badly they will miss Carle's strong parts.

Can you trade a retired player though? I don't think so but maybe you can.
- Daman

I think he's saying trade Pronger to Team X, and then Pronger retires. Cap hit stays, but the team isn't paying him

See my prior post. I changed the facts. End of next year - $15m to pay Pronger, Flyers pay $10m, Flyers give a 2nd pick in exchange for a 6th round pick.

I'll let this go - just curious but in summary the rules are very punishing for legit (I believe so) contracts such a Pronger with subsequent career ending injuries.

I deal with economics and fairness for a living and the lawyers always manage to screw things up. Job creation though.
- Daman

If Pronger was choosing to retire and /or collect an insurance payout, hence the team acquiring his contract does not have to pay out capital, then the Flyers could net a pick rather than give up a 2. It would then be very beneficial for the acquiring team.

As far as I know it would be legal to do so. But Pronger is owed 19M over the next however many years. I don't see a team investing that amount of cash just to try and meet the Cap floor. So not very realistic.
- MJL

Question:

Presumably Prongs salary is being paid by an insurance policy against injured players. Can't a team trade for Prongs and transfer insurance policy on said injured player so the team doesn't actually pay that money. The team then does not put Prongs on the LTIR, but carries him on the active roster so he counts against the cap.

Is there a stipulation in the CBA that mandates injured players being paid by insurance policies must be on LTIR?

EDIT:
I see Great28 beat me to it...

Can you trade a retired player though? I don't think so but maybe you can.
- Daman

Edit: He retires after the trade but before the beginning of the season.

Can you trade a retired player though? I don't think so but maybe you can.
- Daman

No you can't. But in that premise the trade would happen first, then Pronger would reitre, and the team would be stuck with the Cap hit as it is a 35+ deal. But then it's why would Pronger give up 19M?

Maybe Schenn can be that legitimate winger. Or Voracek.

People seem upset that Gervais will block an undrafted FA in Gustafsson, but are more than willing to jump in and add a guy who will block kids like Schenn, Voracek and even Simmonds
- Jsaquella

Voracek and Giroux, IMO, both like to shake and bake and create time and space. Not sure if that complements each other.

I would prefer to see a guy come down the wing or be in the slot and just rip it. Let Harts do what he does best - create ugliness in the corners and around the net. Giroux runnign the show. I'd love a sniper.

Schenn I think will be the 2nd line left wing but may be he is the perfect 1st line right winger. I really like this kid - I see that warrior mentality (which is why Semin won't be here).

The two most worrisome things I see are injuries on defense and how badly they will miss Carle's strong parts.
- Jsaquella

They are short a puck mover. If Timonen isn't ready to start the season, I expect some struggles on the back end.

I disagree that this is a transition year. The Flyers have enough on Defense. That is not going to be the approcah or the mindset of the Flyers Organization.
- MJL

after the veritable college courses you've provided re the merits of Matt carle, youre telling me that coby, mez, schenn, a fading kimmo and the scrap heap are gonna cut it? c'mon...

edit: forgot about nic, ok...a little better, but the puck mover is needed

Question:

Presumably Prongs salary is being paid by an insurance policy against injured players. Can't a team trade for Prongs and transfer insurance policy on said injured player so the team doesn't actually pay that money. The team then does not put Prongs on the LTIR, but carries him on the active roster so he counts against the cap.

Is there a stipulation in the CBA that mandates injured players being paid by insurance policies must be on LTIR?
- dcflyerfan71

I'm no expert on Insurance. But I doubt that the policy can be transferred between teams. And then your talking about a pre existing condition. And there's no way the acquiring team could get an insurance policy on the contract. But don't hold me to that as far as transferring the policy. Really just guessing there.

No you can't. But in that premise the trade would happen first, then Pronger would reitre, and the team would be stuck with the Cap hit as it is a 35+ deal. But then it's why would Pronger give up 19M?
- MJL

Seems like my proposal is something the team would have obviously considered but is a few steps shy of being real/legal/legit.

Maybe Schenn can be that legitimate winger. Or Voracek.

People seem upset that Gervais will block an undrafted FA in Gustafsson, but are more than willing to jump in and add a guy who will block kids like Schenn, Voracek and even Simmonds
- Jsaquella

I like the Gervais signing. but I don't see Schenn and Voracek on the top line with G.

Voracek and Giroux, IMO, both like to shake and bake and create time and space. Not sure if that complements each other.

I would prefer to see a guy come down the wing or be in the slot and just rip it. Let Harts do what he does best - create ugliness in the corners and around the net. Giroux runnign the show. I'd love a sniper.

Schenn I think will be the 2nd line left wing but may be he is the perfect 1st line right winger. I really like this kid - I see that warrior mentality (which is why Semin won't be here).
- Daman

That's the flip side. I'm just tossing out names, but I agree Voracek is probably not the best fit for Giroux's line.

I'd just like to see a big, nasty, gritty bastard in the top 6. That's why I'd go after Doan and ignore other options

No you can't. But in that premise the trade would happen first, then Pronger would reitre, and the team would be stuck with the Cap hit as it is a 35+ deal. But then it's why would Pronger give up 19M?
- MJL

Not everyone is wired to take money that they feel they didn't earn. Some will, some won't. Have no idea where Pronger sits on this issue.

That's the flip side. I'm just tossing out names, but I agree Voracek is probably not the best fit for Giroux's line.

I'd just like to see a big, nasty, gritty bastard in the top 6. That's why I'd go after Doan and ignore other options
- Jsaquella

Had Jvr but got rid of him.

I like the Gervais signing. but I don't see Schenn and Voracek on the top line with G.
- flyersfan51

I think the best option right now to play with Giroux is Briere. Let him play full time on the wing, and sign a defensive minded center who can win faceoffs and kill penalties.

after the veritable college courses you've provided re the merits of Matt carle, youre telling me that coby, mez, schenn, a fading kimmo and the scrap heap are gonna cut it? c'mon...
- isaiah520

What scrap heap? LOL Are you telling me that the Carolina Hurricanes at this point before their Cup Season felt that their defens was Cup caliber? How about the TB Lightning the year before? NJ defense this past Season was spectacular? This is Hockey. Things happen. Teams get hot at the right time. Goalies get hot at the right time. Screw that transition crap! All hands in and we have as good a shot as anyone.

ok genius, what's next?
- isaiah520

was referring to your assessment of the way things went down, not your opinion over what happens next

i'd hope that your right about where we go from here (absent weber being available). i do not, however, agree that this offseason is so clearly the result of some drastic set of miscalculations on homer's part. i think that assumption is a bit of a leap

hence, the mat