As is it now -- and there is still time and cap space to improve things -- the Flyers have lost offensive pop (Jagr, JVR, Carle), taken what would presently be considered a sideways steps defensively (Schenn vs Carle) and may have also weakened the backup goalie spot (Bob vs. Leighton).

But let's see what they do now.
- bmeltzer

Bill,

But we have more financial flexibility. I know you are aware, but there is plenty of time between now and the trade deadline. It is completely impossible to predict which teams will underperform and which players may be available. Teams like the SC champs and Washington barely made the playoffs.

The true key question is can the current team make it to the playoffs as is. I would suggest yes. They are currently not as good as the Rangers, and maybe Boston still has an edge (we'll see), but IMO we are right there.

Most teams have weaknesses and don't have all the ideal players. It is part of hockey life. I don't see the Carle loss as insurmountable by any stretch. Hopefully, the Flyers management team doesn't panic as much as the fans (some fans at least).

You have to think the Flyers have a backup plan or obviously know something we don't. Right?

The Flyers were stuck between a rock and a rock. You can't pay Carle more than Coburn under any circumstance.
- maine_mariner

Sure you could've payed Carle more then Coburn. Puck moving point producing defenseman are worth more in the NHL then stay at home types.

There will be other players available via trade and free agency. No need to trade a potential future stud centerman for a "fix" that's not necessary right now.
- bradleyc4

both of the guys I mentioned can develop into all star dmen who will go thru many of the same growing pains as schenn will- albeit at a position of critical need throughout the league, not just the flyers.

They have a solid top 5, so long as Timonen is healthy. It's not as if they're going to be icing Ryan Parent and Lukas Krajicek as the third pair. There will at least be a solid player such as Meszaros or a developing guy with potential like Schenn as one of the two guys on the third pair.
- Jsaquella

they're gonna have trouble with first passes this yr with this mix and kimmo's iffy health.

Bob vs. Leighton
I don't know, Bob would be pushing for the starting job where Bryz is the starter. Some goalies like the fact they know they are the number one w/o having to look over their shoulder. Leighton IS the back up.
They still have cap space to get some things done and defense by committee is not a bad idea. I for one would like to see them play better team defense and with the lack of a stud defense (no disrespect to Kimmo), this may happen a little bit more consistently.
- phi1671

We had a good idea that Bob was leaving anyhow, and I preferred a vet who wouldn't necessarily push Bryzgalov for starts.

Their defense is better on paper than the one they rode to the 2008 ECF. The team just has to do a better job of being accountable.

....trade some scoring for enstrom and try to sign doan....or oh god, semin?

I think I would like them to just stand pat and let the youngsters lead the offence and wait for weber
- nails

I really don't think they will make a move to add a defenseman right now. I could be dead wrong, but I think they will start the year with what they have and see where it goes.

We had a good idea that Bob was leaving anyhow, and I preferred a vet who wouldn't necessarily push Bryzgalov for starts.

Their defense is better on paper than the one they rode to the 2008 ECF. The team just has to do a better job of being accountable.
- Jsaquella

As is it now -- and there is still time and cap space to improve things -- the Flyers have lost offensive pop (Jagr, JVR, Carle), taken what would presently be considered a sideways steps defensively (Schenn vs Carle) and may have also weakened the backup goalie spot (Bob vs. Leighton).

But let's see what they do now.
- bmeltzer

Agreed. On July 5, 2012 the Flyers have weakened their team in every phase, offense, defense, and goaltending.

Still lots of time for Holmgren to make improvements. Will he? The jury is still out. But the roster we see today, won't be what takes the ice come October.

I'm glad he didn't get desperate and overpay Carle, or Jagr. Better off letting those guys move on.

they're gonna have trouble with first passes this yr with this mix and kimmo's iffy health.
- isaiah520

It could be an issue. No question. But top to bottom, the defense isn't that bad.

Schenn should be as untouchable as Couturier, IMO.
- bradleyc4

I agree. Fans will be raving over Brayden Schenn this upcoming Season. I feel he is going to be a big time player for the Flyers.

Honestly I rather see them let the kids grow together and just fill in a few gaps for this up coming season. the free agency crop (granted a lot can change with guys re-signing during the season) looks so much better next year. just a few names that are interesting:

Iginla
Elias
Perry
Getzlaf
Lupul
Horton
Roy
Zajac
Enstrom
Clarkson
Burrows
Stewart
Weber

they're gonna have trouble with first passes this yr with this mix and kimmo's iffy health.
- isaiah520

I disagree. We are a acting like the other defenseman are garbage. The Flyers need better support and that in itself takes pressure off. Even with Carle they got handled against the Devils. The team needs to be better defensively.

Honestly I rather see them let the kids grow together and just fill in a few gaps for this up coming season. the free agency crop (granted a lot can change with guys re-signing during the season) looks so much better next year. just a few names that are interesting:

Iginla
Elias
Perry
Getzlaf
Lupul
Horton
Roy
Zajac
Enstrom
Clarkson
Burrows
Stewart
Weber
- nastyflyergirl

Yes please!

The Carle "fiasco" is really the first, and only time that the Walker and Shelley contracts bit the Flyers in the ass.

The only reason they did is, they prevented getting a deal signed, sealed and delivered before July 1st, because they took up tagging space.

But, so did the Grossmann contract.

I don't really see the Carle situation as a fiasco. Yes, he's a good player, and the Flyers would be a better team with him onboard at a $5mm cap hit than with Gervais and Gustafsson, but at the same time, the deal Carle got was too long for my liking, and the cap hit was the absolute most I would have considered paying.

As it is now, the Flyers have a solid team. They have lost fewer skilled players and certainly fewer key players than New Jersey and Pittsburgh. They still have cap space to make a couple of moves, too.
- Jsaquella

Shelley affected tagging space, but Walker didn't. Walker didn't come into the Cap picture until July 1. And then the 10% exemption kicks in at the same time.

As is it now -- and there is still time and cap space to improve things -- the Flyers have lost offensive pop (Jagr, JVR, Carle), taken what would presently be considered a sideways steps defensively (Schenn vs Carle) and may have also weakened the backup goalie spot (Bob vs. Leighton).

But let's see what they do now.
- bmeltzer

But realtive to Pitts and NJD, they have done better

I disagree. We are a acting like the other defenseman are garbage. The Flyers need better support and that in itself takes pressure off. Even with Carle they got handled against the Devils. The team needs to be better defensively.
- stveshdy

So far the depth has taken a hit no way around it. If the normal occurrence of injuries takes place, the depth isn't there at this point to withstand it.

I really don't think they will make a move to add a defenseman right now. I could be dead wrong, but I think they will start the year with what they have and see where it goes.
- Jsaquella

I kid of hope they let it be. I would like to see gusty and bourdon get a regular shot.
Again, it just like a couple of years ago, they need some of the kids to step up and take bigger roles.

Honestly I rather see them let the kids grow together and just fill in a few gaps for this up coming season. the free agency crop (granted a lot can change with guys re-signing during the season) looks so much better next year. just a few names that are interesting:

Iginla
Elias
Perry
Getzlaf
Lupul
Horton
Roy
Zajac
Enstrom
Clarkson
Burrows
Stewart
Weber
- nastyflyergirl

That's the big thing with this year's crop of FA's. Sure, they would be a better team today with Matt Carle at $5.5mm for 6 years. Same with Ryan Suter and the deal they offered him.

But that ties up valuable years and cap room in guys that, while very good players, are not elite level guys. Adding cheaper players, on one year deals gives the Flyers a ton of flexibility moving forward.

I wouldn't be against a 2 year deal with Shane Doan. He's literally the lone "name" FA I still would like to see.

I agree. Fans will be raving over Brayden Schenn this upcoming Season. I feel he is going to be a big time player for the Flyers.
- MJL

Frankly, I think both of the Schenns will be.

I agree. Fans will be raving over Brayden Schenn this upcoming Season. I feel he is going to be a big time player for the Flyers.
- MJL

Schenn2Shine

As is it now -- and there is still time and cap space to improve things -- the Flyers have lost offensive pop (Jagr, JVR, Carle), taken what would presently be considered a sideways steps defensively (Schenn vs Carle) and may have also weakened the backup goalie spot (Bob vs. Leighton).

But let's see what they do now.
- bmeltzer

I don't see Schenn vs Carle as a sideways step defensively. More like changing the defensive mix, between a puck moving offensive defenseman more towards the physical defensive mix. Regardless of the upside that I feel Schenn does have. He is not the player that Carle is at this point.

Shelley affected tagging space, but Walker didn't. Walker didn't come into the Cap picture until July 1. And then the 10% exemption kicks in at the same time.
- MJL

And Pronger and Walker ate up 90% of the 10% exemption by themselves.

Bottom line, they didn't have the tagging space to re-sign Carle prior to the Wideman deal, which seemed to be the impetus for Carle's desire to test the market.

Guys you all need to relax,

Carle @ 5.5 seems reasonable this year but next year we will complain how the "Carle" contract has handcuffed us. while carle is not easily replaceable this year, id rather have a ton of room to go after Enstrom and weber next year. Flyers should be patient this year. Personally this year is just a stepping stone to next year when they will go all out.

Defense is good....Get someone to capitalise on giroux's passes and you have a very good team and call it a day.

I don't see Schenn vs Carle as a sideways step defensively. More like changing the defensive mix, between a puck moving offensive defenseman more towards the physical defensive mix. Regardless of the upside that I feel Schenn does have. He is not the player that Carle is at this point.
- MJL

I bet that Luke has extra motivation now and will have a jump in his step playing with his bro and with the new scenery.

Would anyone be opposed to signing semin. I know the risk but this guy is talented I think he better then parise he would look nice next to g