My problem with the deal was that the Flyers gave up as much if not more for a 34 year old Pronger than Anaheim and Edmonton gave up for Pronger in his prime.
- TheGreat28

lupul's k, if i recall correctly, was very different in the two trades

i think that deserves consideration

No offense, but those numbers don't mean much w/o putting them into context, especially Corsi, and there has been no direct correlation established between the quality of defenders on the ice and the on-ice-save-% of goalies. You have to take into account quality of competition and zone-starts to make the numbers mean anything.

Just from a cursory glance at what behindthenet.ca has for both players, Ryan faced tougher competition and still did a better job of pushing the play forward, whereas Semin was mostly sheltered defensively (faced low-quality QoC + more offensive zone %) and didn't exactly feast on the second-tier checking that he faced (could have more to do w/ Hunter's passive style versus Semin's offensive capabilities). It's also noteworthy that Ryan is trusted to kill penalties while Semin isn't let anywhere near the ice when the Caps are a man down.
- Tomahawk

considering the competition and zone starts, ryan's a better player for sure, but my interest at this time lies much more in favor of semin because the price for ryan will be exorbitant and i fear such a deal would not make us better.

lupul's k, if i recall correctly, was very different in the two trades

i think that deserves consideration
- FlyerMike18

lupul's what? potassium?

Nope...no bulging veins on the forehead.

- Lexington Flyer

I doubt Torts' veins bulge when he hits up a carnival to creep on kids like that guy either.

One of the solutions to these defensive question marks is only a year away; maybe less. If Brandon Manning hadn't gotten injured last fall, he would already be ahead of Gus on the depth chart. The kid has size, makes good decisions, and plays on both ends. He's the real deal.

Of all the skaters who played In Glens Falls in 11-12, he shows the highest NHL up-side. That includes Wellwood, Harry Z and Mike Testwuide.

http://prohockeytalk.nbcs...ufa-spotlight-shane-doan/

Cantstandya! Cantstandya!
- canadianpenfan

lupul's what? potassium?
- OrangeBlack27

whoops, my bad

contract

No offense, but those numbers don't mean much w/o putting them into context, especially Corsi, and there has been no direct correlation established between the quality of defenders on the ice and the on-ice-save-% of goalies. You have to take into account quality of competition and zone-starts to make the numbers mean anything.

Just from a cursory glance at what behindthenet.ca has for both players, Ryan faced tougher competition and still did a better job of pushing the play forward, whereas Semin was mostly sheltered defensively (faced low-quality QoC + more offensive zone %) and didn't exactly feast on the second-tier checking that he faced (could have more to do w/ Hunter's passive style versus Semin's offensive capabilities). It's also noteworthy that Ryan is trusted to kill penalties while Semin isn't let anywhere near the ice when the Caps are a man down.
- Tomahawk

I find it difficult to call an extremely talented offensive threat "sheltered" because he gets more off zone starts.

WSH also had more talented 2nd and 3rd liners that took possible PK time away from Semin (they had better options).

The fact that Ryan was benched for "cutting defensive corners" goes beyond just the stats.

anyone else feeling some JBouw in the air?
- vejim

Well, to the extent that a new whipping boy is needed, he fits the bill. In fact, JBouw is already despised. Matty Carle, who was unknown, had to earn the fans' contempt with his play.

Well, to the extent that a new whipping boy is needed, he fits the bill. In fact, JBouw is already despised. Matty Carle, who was unknown, had to earn the fans' contempt with his play.
- 2731color

I think Luke will fit just fine into that role.

My problem with the deal was that the Flyers gave up as much if not more for a 34 year old Pronger than Anaheim and Edmonton gave up for Pronger in his prime.
- TheGreat28

Also, Pronger only had one year left on his deal and Holmgren had not talked to Pronger prior to the trade to see if he'd be willing to resign in Philly. That's why, on top of all that the Flyers gave up for him, the Flyers had to give him his biggest payday on top of that.

whoops, my bad

contract
- FlyerMike18

smid and lupul (at that time a rising star) in 06 + two firsts is definitely better than sbisa and lupul (overpaid underachiever) + two firsts in 09.

My problem with the deal was that the Flyers gave up as much if not more for a 34 year old Pronger than Anaheim and Edmonton gave up for Pronger in his prime.
- TheGreat28

To be fair, Eric Brewer was seen as a pretty hot commodity back then, and Woywitka and Lynch were supposed to be quality prospects. In hindsight, the deal was a total steal for the Oilers, but it could have swung the other way if the other players came anywhere close to meeting their potentials.

As far as the ANA-PHI Pronger deal, hindsight probably won't be as kind. Etem and Palmieri were really strong late 1st-round picks... the deal would look even worse if ANA hadn't turned around and pissed themselves by dealing Lupul + Gardiner for Beauchemin.

I think Luke will fit just fine into that role.
- canadianpenfan

No he hits people, he will be absolved of all wrong doing, see Ron Hextall, Scottie Upshall, Dan Carcillo etc.

I think Luke will fit just fine into that role.
- canadianpenfan

Nah. As I stated the other day, Luke Schenn is 22 yrs old, people have to give him a chance to mature as a defenseman. I don't think he will be a "whipping boy" I do however believe if JVR gets on a hot streak and is scoring in Toronto the female doging will be epic.

Bryzgalov will draw the ire from the fans solely with Carle gone.

No he hits people, he will be absolved of all wrong doing, see Ron Hextall, Scottie Upshall, Dan Carcillo etc.
- JoeRussomanno

But those guys all offered something else. Hextall stopped pucks, Upshall chipped in offensively and Carcillo kept the room light because he was so ugly.

Well, to the extent that a new whipping boy is needed, he fits the bill. In fact, JBouw is already despised. Matty Carle, who was unknown, had to earn the fans' contempt with his play.
- 2731color

As inaccurate as the perception of his play was. Preposterous fallacies eaten up by a bunch of (frank)ing sheep.

Schenn is going to get murdered in this town.

Nah. As I stated the other day, Luke Schenn is 22 yrs old, people have to give him a chance to mature as a defenseman. I don't think he will be a "whipping boy" I do however believe if JVR gets on a hot streak and is scoring in Toronto the female doging will be epic.

Bryzgalov will draw the ire from the fans solely with Carle gone.
- PLindbergh31

People will not remember he is only 22. We already saw that with the JVR bashing. People were constantly complaining about JVR as if he was a 27 year old 8 year veteran.

Same will happen with Schenn because a vocal portion of the Flyers fans in this town are idiots.

Also, Pronger only had one year left on his deal and Holmgren had not talked to Pronger prior to the trade to see if he'd be willing to resign in Philly. That's why, on top of all that the Flyers gave up for him, the Flyers had to give him his biggest payday on top of that.
- Flyers_01

I completely agree. The dollars spent on Bryz and Pronger, and to a lesser extent Hartnell and Kimmo, were inflated due to a need to sign the player for whom they gave up significant assets. Even Holmgren admitted as much when asked about acquiring rights for this year's UFA.

People will not remember he is only 22. We already saw that with the JVR bashing. People were constantly complaining about JVR as if he was a 27 year old 8 year veteran.

Same will happen with Schenn because a vocal portion of the Flyers fans in this town are idiots.
- MBFlyerfan

perhaps. I'm willing to give Schenn a few years to mature.

@DarrenDreger: Carolina Hurricanes are no longer persuing Rick Nash. Cost way too high. CBJ believed to be after Jeff Skinner. Non-starter.

Nah. As I stated the other day, Luke Schenn is 22 yrs old, people have to give him a chance to mature as a defenseman. I don't think he will be a "whipping boy" I do however believe if JVR gets on a hot streak and is scoring in Toronto the female doging will be epic.

Bryzgalov will draw the ire from the fans solely with Carle gone.
- PLindbergh31

I've never been to Philly and even I know his age won't save him from the fans wrath. He's a turnstyle. Hopefully he gets with the S & C coaches and increases his foot speed. Well actually, hopefully he doesn't.

As inaccurate as the perception of his play was. Preposterous fallacies eaten up by a bunch of (frank)ing sheep.

Schenn is going to get murdered in this town.
- MBFlyerfan

This guy nos what I be talkin about!

perhaps. I'm willing to give Schenn a few years to mature.
- PLindbergh31

So am I, but then I live in reality.