Slim pickings to say the least, if the Flyers don't land Doan, any significant upgrade will have to be made via trade.
- PLindbergh31

and at which point, given the value and the number of suitors, a trade doesn't make a great deal of sense, imo.

Uh, Briere isn't Russian. Duh.
- BulliesPhan87

He could have fooled me

Uh, Briere isn't Russian. Duh.
- BulliesPhan87

He certainly plays like one.

Would you take a chance signing Mueller?
Getting Doan for 3 years seems very unlikely to me.

I don't see any of the UFA defenseman as being helpful considering the mix.
They might make a trade for a puck moving offensive D man.

I so fear the Flyers giving up kids for him.
- nastyflyergirl

I doubt the Flyers are even kicking the tires on Nash. I think he'll be a Rag or Shark.

Would you take a chance signing Mueller?
Getting Doan for 3 years seems very unlikely to me.

I don't see any of the UFA defenseman as being helpful considering the mix.
They might make a trade for a puck moving offensive D man.
- Marc D

I'd LOVE Yandle but, again, Phoenix is unlikely to budge unless we pay up big-time.

and at which point, given the value and the number of suitors, a trade doesn't make a great deal of sense, imo.
- OrangeBlack27

Indeed. Any trade will most likely be robbing Peter to pay Paul. Flyers might have to suck it up this year as is, which is still a solid playoff team, most likely not a contender.

Timonen comes off the books this upcoming year, Holmgren will have considerable Cap space to try and make a big run at Weber. Which may be what his plan is.

Would you take a chance signing Mueller?
Getting Doan for 3 years seems very unlikely to me.

I don't see any of the UFA defenseman as being helpful considering the mix.
They might make a trade for a puck moving offensive D man.
- Marc D

I like Mueller.

I like Mueller.
- OrangeBlack27

He'd be a nice player to have on our PP. He's not very useful other than that.

Pierre LeBrun ‏@Real_ESPNLeBrun

Matt Carle contract breakdown: Year 1 $3 M signing bonus plus $2 M salary _ $5 M total; Years 2-3 $5.75 M salary; Years 4-6 $5.5 M salary.

Hard to believe that the Flyers wouldn't match this if they felt Carle was part of their long term plan.

Damn right there is a hole. And a big one in my opinion.

If you just want to find him on the list for turnovers by defensemen (he was 42nd overall). You will find such scrub defensemen as John Carlsson, PK Subban, Norris winner Erik Karlsson, Dion Phanuef, Brett Burns, Keith Yandle, Zdeno Chara, Dennis Wideman, Dan Boyle, Drew Doughty, Mark Striet, Hal Gill, Jay Bouwmeester, Luke Schenn, Brent Seabrooke, Dustin Byfulglien. Carle comes all the way in at 25. Not a decent dman above him on that list huh?
- MBFlyerfan

Most of those D men you cited there top notch are puck carrying types who tend to carry the puck up ice, through the neutral zone and either shoot in (where they likely get most of their turnovers) or carry it all the way in themselves, where it's less risky to turn it over (in the o zone). Carle's tendency was to sit behind the defensive net, maybe come out a stride or two and then do a d to d pass or try to outlet or stretch pass up the ice from deep in the d zone. This led to turnovers of the more concerning variety versus those other players. Please show me the stats of defensive zone turnovers by D men, and then we'll see what's what.

Carle also led the Flyers in total ice time by over 100 minutes more than the next closest player, playing mainly with whatever call up was in the lineup that evening. He led the team in blocked shots. Led the team in even strength TOI. Let the team in ice time per game. Led the team in total shifts taken. Led the team in shifts per game.
- MBFlyerfan

Steve Eminger was getting top pairing minutes for the Bolts the year he was traded there. He did ok with it too (outproduced Carle)...but was that the right role for him? Did it make the Bolts a good/great team? No...sometimes players get elevated into playing bigger minutes than their suited for...it's far from ideal to have Matt Carle as your top overall minute guy but with Pronger out and Kimmo and Mez etc. banged up, that's what the Flyers had to do...maybe having Carle in that role is one of the reasons the Flyers D was suspect down the stretch.

Now the Flyers, in wasting all that time trying to over pay for Suter by a country mile, have weakened their back line. AT this point in time, the Flyers are not as good a team as they were last season on paper, and unless they sign Doan and trade for a Carle replacement (which will further weaken them from a forward standpoint, the prospects of them getting better seems limited. Bruno Gervais ain't gonna cut it.

Carle at 5.5 for 6 years, compared to Suter at whatever the hell he got X 12 doesn't seem so bad to me.
- MBFlyerfan

While I think Carle filled a certain role and was durable, he didn't really display any special qualities that will make his loss unsurmountable. As Tomahwak said in his earlier post, the other top 4 types the Flyers have will have to elevate their games and offset the loss by committee. I mean, do you really think the Flyers will now struggle (more) to get the puck out of the zone or struggle to score or to have a good powerplay because they refused to overpay Matt Carle? I hardly think so. Guys like Mez and Coburn have shown they can move the puck (especially earlier in their careers when they had more of that kind of role), Timo, if healthy, is better than any of them (including Carle)... Schenn makes a good outlet pass, Gusty, MAB and even Grossmann can make plays to get the puck up the ice when necessary. I'm really not worried much at all about losing Matt Carle here. I like that the team didn't overpay in free agency this season and has some dry powder to make what could possibly be more significant, more attractive moves in the future.

He'd be a nice player to have on our PP. He's not very useful other than that.
- LordStanley88

With Jagr gone they do need someone to score from the half boards, especially on the 2nd PP unit.

I am hoping Couts and B Schenn will get the 2nd PP unit time now.
I think Couts has a lot of upside offensively.

He'd be a nice player to have on our PP. He's not very useful other than that.
- LordStanley88

Worth a shot if other teams are't knocking his door down. Seems funny that Latendresse was signed rather quickly on July 1 and Mueller is still available.

Pierre LeBrun ‏@Real_ESPNLeBrun

Matt Carle contract breakdown: Year 1 $3 M signing bonus plus $2 M salary _ $5 M total; Years 2-3 $5.75 M salary; Years 4-6 $5.5 M salary.

Hard to believe that the Flyers wouldn't match this if they felt Carle was part of their long term plan.
- Marc D

It appears team Management didn't value Carle nearly as much as some folks here did.

Which puts the folks who love Carle, but never criticize anything the team does in a bit of a quandary.

With Jagr gone they do need someone to score from the half boards, especially on the 2nd PP unit.

I am hoping Couts and B Schenn will get the 2nd PP unit time now.
I think Couts has a lot of upside offensively.
- Marc D

Hartsy-G-Simmer
Jake-Kimmo

Schenn-Couts-Briere
Mesz-Read

I guess those would be the PP units right now.

Worth a shot if other teams are't knocking his door down. Seems funny that Latendresse was signed rather quickly on July 1 and Mueller is still available.
- OrangeBlack27

Well, Latendrese made it clear that he wanted to return to the Quebec area because of his kid I believe, so that made the Habs or Sens esssentially his only options.

Indeed. Any trade will most likely be robbing Peter to pay Paul. Flyers might have to suck it up this year as is, which is still a solid playoff team, most likely not a contender.

Timonen comes off the books this upcoming year, Holmgren will have considerable Cap space to try and make a big run at Weber. Which may be what his plan is.
- PLindbergh31

which isn't the end of the world, imo

there certainly appear to be holes now, but its a long season. a lot can change between now and april. i'm happy going in with what we have (largely, still could be little pickups obv) and seeing how the team meshes together. might not be ideal, but it's not horrible. certainly preferable to making a rash move just because the fan base wants to see something "big" in the offseason

Worth a shot if other teams are't knocking his door down. Seems funny that Latendresse was signed rather quickly on July 1 and Mueller is still available.
- OrangeBlack27

doesn't he wear # 88? he gets a "no" vote from me

which isn't the end of the world, imo

there certainly appear to be holes now, but its a long season. a lot can change between now and april. i'm happy going in with what we have (largely, still could be little pickups obv) and seeing how the team meshes together. might not be ideal, but it's not horrible. certainly preferable to making a rash move just because the fan base wants to see something "big" in the offseason
- FlyerMike18

hasn't always worked, but holmgren's been able to add bros like prospal, carle, versteeg, and grossmann in season without giving up too terribly much.

Hartsy-G-Simmer
Jake-Kimmo

Schenn-Couts-Briere
Mesz-Read

I guess those would be the PP units right now.
- LordStanley88

Couts in the crease on PP#2. Schenn on the half boards with Read point/half boards and Briere behind around the net.

I guess if Mez gets his shot through it could be pretty good.

which isn't the end of the world, imo

there certainly appear to be holes now, but its a long season. a lot can change between now and april. i'm happy going in with what we have (largely, still could be little pickups obv) and seeing how the team meshes together. might not be ideal, but it's not horrible. certainly preferable to making a rash move just because the fan base wants to see something "big" in the offseason
- FlyerMike18

The Flyers still have a very good team, even with the loss of the 3 players. But the fan base is going to want something big in the Season if it doesn't happen in the off season. And that normally will come down to the same thing. Overpaying.

Nice, honest analysis, Bill. The more things change, the more they stay the same, regarding the strategy of screwing other teams in your division, rather than focusing on your own team needs. It doesn't usually end well. That being said, I go back to the Pronger deal, which at the time most agreed was wise only if it brought a Cup. It did not and has been a Cap disaster, for years now. Hard to understand the blind love for Homer and staff.

James Mirtle's list of remaining free agents. Obviously Carle is since gone.

2. Shane Doan, W, Phoenix
3. Alex Semin, W, Washington
5. Peter Mueller, W, Colorado
6. Michal Rozsival, D, Phoenix

Other UFAs from our Top 100 list still available:

Forwards: Moore, Kostopolous.

Defencemen: Colaiacovo, Gragnani, Campoli, Gervais, Foster.
- nastyflyergirl

Any combination of these players intrigue me, on different levels of course. Some projects, high reward low risk guys in there. The only high risk high reward is Semin. What about a guy like Campoli or Foster as a depth d-man?

hasn't always worked, but holmgren's been able to add bros like prospal, carle, versteeg, and grossmann in season without giving up too terribly much.
- OrangeBlack27

Nice, honest analysis, Bill. The more things change, the more they stay the same, regarding the strategy of screwing other teams in your division, rather than focusing on your own team needs. It doesn't usually end well. That being said, I go back to the Pronger deal, which at the time most agreed was wise only if it brought a Cup. It did not and has been a Cap disaster, for years now. Hard to understand the blind love for Homer and staff.
- TJ

Pronger had a good track record of staying relatively healthy. The Flyers made the move for him to try and win a Cup. Should they have foreseen him getting his eye nearly poked out of his head? It was an unfortunate stroke a bad luck. It happens.