The one asset that we have an abundance of is mobility and I truly think mobility is king in the current state of the NHL. We went the rugged, stay-at-home route and it didn't really work out for us. I'll take a mobile defensive group over a tough, flat-footed group any day. Mobile guys can carry the puck out of danger themselves, guys with vision and "offensive" ability can keep the play in the other end, and that's the best defense IMO.
- gravyface

With all due respect you can see how that mobility has helped our plus minus.. and making the playoffs.. I don't think Boston is mobile on D and they won a Cup. Los Angeles used size to win.. soft small guys are not the recipe in my opinion.. unless you want draft picks.

If the leafs are going to catch a break i hope it ain't this year. Next is ok.
- eihcnerf

Nathan McKinnon eh?

Haven't commented on HB for quite some time, but I'm very intrigued by this Luongo situation. It seems to me Gillis has to trade him (despite what he'll say), he simply cannot go to camp with those two goalies again.

To be there are only two real options:

1. Florida
2. Toronto

It seems that Florida is more willing to meet Vancouver's demands, and would be a better fit for Luongo personally, but Toronto needs Luongo more. Plain and simple.

I don't buy the whole Komi and a pick for Luongo scenario, but I also know, there is no way Gardiner is going back the other way.

My question is: What do you think Toronto should offer for Luongo.

I look at our depth chart and I suggest something like this:

To Toronto: Luongo

To Vancouver: Bozak, MacArthur, Holzer

I think this deal works for both sides:

Toronto: Gets their #1 goalie to get into the playoffs

Vancouver:
-Gets a third line center to play behind H. Sedin, and Kesler in Bozak (good for 40-50 points, great on the PK)
-Gets a speedy winger with one year left on on his deal (good for 40-60 points)
-Gets a young, shutdown d-man, ready to make the jump. Is also a right shot, and will slot is perfectly on Vancouver's thin right side as a 6-7 d-man.

Cap:

Toronto:
Luongo --> 5.33
Total: = 5.33

Vancouver:
MacArthur --> 3.25
Bozak --> 1.5
Holzer --> RFA (for numbers sake, lets say 1 million)
Total = 5.75

What do you guys think?

With all due respect you can see how that mobility has helped our plus minus.. and making the playoffs.. I don't think Boston is mobile on D and they won a Cup. Los Angeles used size to win.. soft small guys are not the recipe in my opinion.. unless you want draft picks.
- DoctorNHL

yeah they need hamilton

The one asset that we have an abundance of is mobility and I truly think mobility is king in the current state of the NHL. We went the rugged, stay-at-home route and it didn't really work out for us. I'll take a mobile defensive group over a tough, flat-footed group any day. Mobile guys can carry the puck out of danger themselves, guys with vision and "offensive" ability can keep the play in the other end, and that's the best defense IMO.
- gravyface

I agree. I think this group will get to loose pucks quicker, will be smarter with the puck. Carlyle should be able to put a system in place that ensures they aren't caught out of position often and can close up gaps quicker and use their sticks. Phaneuf and Franson are not as bad in their own end as some think. Phaneuf needs to use his strength to knock guys off pucks, same for Komi. Gardiner needs some seasoning but can improve in his own end as well. But puck moving is our strength on the back end....as long as we can gain possession. That's where it makes or breaks us.

...I can honestly.
Let's pretend Connolly,Steckle didn't exist (ala armstrong).......
Jokinen, grabovski, bozak, mcclement
- Barx

I saw Winnipeg in the mix for Jokinen. Wow we really need to luck out with centremen in the system (unlikely at this point) or a hell of a good trade.

The one asset that we have an abundance of is mobility and I truly think mobility is king in the current state of the NHL. We went the rugged, stay-at-home route and it didn't really work out for us. I'll take a mobile defensive group over a tough, flat-footed group any day. Mobile guys can carry the puck out of danger themselves, guys with vision and "offensive" ability can keep the play in the other end, and that's the best defense IMO.
- gravyface

this.

I saw Winnipeg in the mix for Jokinen. Wow we really need to luck out with centrremen in the system (unlikely at this point) or a hell of a good trade.
- LeafMan

I just don't think there is anything out there....it's pretty bad when jokinen is a HUGE upgrade.

Haven't commented on HB for quite some time, but I'm very intrigued by this Luongo situation. It seems to me Gillis has to trade him (despite what he'll say), he simply cannot go to camp with those two goalies again.

To be there are only two real options:

1. Florida
2. Toronto

It seems that Florida is more willing to meet Vancouver's demands, and would be a better fit for Luongo personally, but Toronto needs Luongo more. Plain and simple.

I don't buy the whole Komi and a pick for Luongo scenario, but I also know, there is no way Gardiner is going back the other way.

My question is: What do you think Toronto should offer for Luongo.

I look at our depth chart and I suggest something like this:

To Toronto: Luongo

To Vancouver: Bozak, MacArthur, Holzer

I think this deal works for both sides:

Toronto: Gets their #1 goalie to get into the playoffs

Vancouver:
-Gets a third line center to play behind H. Sedin, and Kesler in Bozak (good for 40-50 points, great on the PK)
-Gets a speedy winger with one year left on on his deal (good for 40-60 points)
-Gets a young, shutdown d-man, ready to make the jump. Is also a right shot, and will slot is perfectly on Vancouver's thin right side as a 6-7 d-man.

Cap:

Toronto:
Luongo --> 5.33
Total: = 5.33

Vancouver:
MacArthur --> 3.25
Bozak --> 1.5
Holzer --> RFA (for numbers sake, lets say 1 million)
Total = 5.75

What do you guys think?
- Gryphon33

holzer has more value to the leafs now then ever b4 with no aulie and schenn maybe some else. and at this point i would rather keep bozak unless another centre is on it's way

but it not like the leafs are giving up a whole lot anyway and loungo would adress a need

Haven't commented on HB for quite some time, but I'm very intrigued by this Luongo situation. It seems to me Gillis has to trade him (despite what he'll say), he simply cannot go to camp with those two goalies again.

To be there are only two real options:

1. Florida
2. Toronto

It seems that Florida is more willing to meet Vancouver's demands, and would be a better fit for Luongo personally, but Toronto needs Luongo more. Plain and simple.

I don't buy the whole Komi and a pick for Luongo scenario, but I also know, there is no way Gardiner is going back the other way.

My question is: What do you think Toronto should offer for Luongo.

I look at our depth chart and I suggest something like this:

To Toronto: Luongo

To Vancouver: Bozak, MacArthur, Holzer

I think this deal works for both sides:

Toronto: Gets their #1 goalie to get into the playoffs

Vancouver:
-Gets a third line center to play behind H. Sedin, and Kesler in Bozak (good for 40-50 points, great on the PK)
-Gets a speedy winger with one year left on on his deal (good for 40-60 points)
-Gets a young, shutdown d-man, ready to make the jump. Is also a right shot, and will slot is perfectly on Vancouver's thin right side as a 6-7 d-man.

Cap:

Toronto:
Luongo --> 5.33
Total: = 5.33

Vancouver:
MacArthur --> 3.25
Bozak --> 1.5
Holzer --> RFA (for numbers sake, lets say 1 million)
Total = 5.75

What do you guys think?
- Gryphon33

Who knows what Vancouver would want...or even what Burke would be willing to spend. I don't mind that deal which probably means it's too good. If Gillis is holding out hope to get a top pick and a top young kid then he's only hurting himself. Florida just signed Clemmenson and Theodore has a NTC. Though admittedly I don't know what kind of NTC it is.

With all due respect you can see how that mobility has helped our plus minus.. and making the playoffs.. I don't think Boston is mobile on D and they won a Cup. Los Angeles used size to win.. soft small guys are not the recipe in my opinion.. unless you want draft picks.
- DoctorNHL

Kings-willie mitchell, matt greene, rob scuderi......3 of the top four can barely skate-but they played smart hockey.
hence why many leaf fans were pissed about losing schenn.

With all due respect you can see how that mobility has helped our plus minus.. and making the playoffs.. I don't think Boston is mobile on D and they won a Cup. Los Angeles used size to win.. soft small guys are not the recipe in my opinion.. unless you want draft picks.
- DoctorNHL

LA had Doughty. Probably the second or third best skating d-men in the league. And he played big minutes.

Haven't commented on HB for quite some time, but I'm very intrigued by this Luongo situation. It seems to me Gillis has to trade him (despite what he'll say), he simply cannot go to camp with those two goalies again.

To be there are only two real options:

1. Florida
2. Toronto

It seems that Florida is more willing to meet Vancouver's demands, and would be a better fit for Luongo personally, but Toronto needs Luongo more. Plain and simple.

I don't buy the whole Komi and a pick for Luongo scenario, but I also know, there is no way Gardiner is going back the other way.

My question is: What do you think Toronto should offer for Luongo.

I look at our depth chart and I suggest something like this:

To Toronto: Luongo

To Vancouver: Bozak, MacArthur, Holzer

I think this deal works for both sides:

Toronto: Gets their #1 goalie to get into the playoffs

Vancouver:
-Gets a third line center to play behind H. Sedin, and Kesler in Bozak (good for 40-50 points, great on the PK)
-Gets a speedy winger with one year left on on his deal (good for 40-60 points)
-Gets a young, shutdown d-man, ready to make the jump. Is also a right shot, and will slot is perfectly on Vancouver's thin right side as a 6-7 d-man.

Cap:

Toronto:
Luongo --> 5.33
Total: = 5.33

Vancouver:
MacArthur --> 3.25
Bozak --> 1.5
Holzer --> RFA (for numbers sake, lets say 1 million)
Total = 5.75

What do you guys think?
- Gryphon33

My friend you put a lot of thought into this.. and your original deduction is true.. I don't think Vancouver will hold onto Luongo unless forced to.. and that contract will do some forcing.

Florida has money issues.. I don't see them as legit.. I think Tallon is helping Gillis there... trying to get some out of Burke.. and considering how much these two dislike each other they are both trying to get something back to say they won.

Burke would like to dump a contract.. and Gillis wants someone tangiable on top of getting rid of the contract..

this is so both can point to it and say they won.. or at least say they were not fools.

I think if the deal gets done.. it will have a dump.. and the Leafs will also have to give up someone good.

That is why I think your trade that you put a lot of thought into and I appreciate will not work.

Needs to be a dump.. needs to have someone Vancouver wants... those throw -ins you mentioned.. although they mean something to some Leaf fans do not resonate in Vancouver..

Now I think you might have to add in some other valuable players in a multi-player deal.. to get it done.. with some add-ons.. I have never thought about it deep enough to put some names to it.

Nathan McKinnon eh?
- LeafMan

You know what? Why not? I want this rivalry to get much bigger and much more exciting, a playoff round? Ahahhahaaha, come on man lets put this game into orbit, let's show these soccer mother(frank)ers how it's done....

Kings-willie mitchell, matt greene, rob scuderi......3 of the top four can barely skate-but they played smart hockey.
hence why many leaf fans were pissed about losing schenn.
- Barx

Dead on about positioning, how many rants did I go on that last season, lol. Carlyle I'm sure with Dave Farrish will work on this as a priority, at least I hope so.

LA had Doughty. Probably the second or third best skating d-men in the league. And he played big minutes.
- Arctic_AARDVARK

Yes that is one man.. we have 4 to 5 offensive dmen... that was my point.. not saying you don't need O Dmen.. but more than two is too much.. need two team guys one like Gunnar... two D Dmen.. and to O ones in my opinion.. most should be at least good in their zone.

Agreed..

also to a minor extent Kaberle who was always a team guy till the end even when he took a trade... he gave hometown discounts.. scored points for us regularly.. and until Burke's rebuild was a plus player.. than was ostracized by the club.. branded part of the Muskoka 5 of lazies holding the club back.. and ridiculed by fans.. for accepting a trade that helped the Leafs unlike Sundin who was well within his rights.. to do so.. he is still mocked.. when on the other hand we gave up a high second rounder in a deep draft for Kaberle light.. Liles is a career minus something Kaberle is not.. and is softer in his own end that Kaberle.. and Burke signs him to a longterm deal.
- DoctorNHL

Agreed

Kaberle deserves nothing but respect from Leaf fans. He did everything for the team and the fan base and still gets crapped on. It really bugs me. Sundin will be tarnished even though he holds most Leaf records to this day.

There are tons of examples of that. Tucker never gave up on the team, although there was a fall off after the Corson thing, but the last year he was hurt and it took a toll on his numbers. He still played well after leaving.

Kings-willie mitchell, matt greene, rob scuderi......3 of the top four can barely skate-but they played smart hockey.
hence why many leaf fans were pissed about losing schenn.
- Barx

I was not upset.. willing to roll the dice on JVR...

Dead on about positioning, how many rants did I go on that last season, lol. Carlyle I'm sure with Dave Farrish will work on this as a priority, at least I hope so.
- LeafMan

A little chat with Dion go a long way.

My friend you put a lot of thought into this.. and your original deduction is true.. I don't think Vancouver will hold onto Luongo unless forced to.. and that contract will do some forcing.

Florida has money issues.. I don't see them as legit.. I think Tallon is helping Gillis there... trying to get some out of Burke.. and considering how much these two dislike each other they are both trying to get something back to say they won.

Burke would like to dump a contract.. and Gillis wants someone tangiable on top of getting rid of the contract..

this is so both can point to it and say they won.. or at least say they were not fools.

I think if the deal gets done.. it will have a dump.. and the Leafs will also have to give up someone good.

That is why I think your trade that you put a lot of thought into and I appreciate will not work.

Needs to be a dump.. needs to have someone Vancouver wants... those throw -ins you mentioned.. although they mean something to some Leaf fans do not resonate in Vancouver..

Now I think you might have to add in some other valuable players in a multi-player deal.. to get it done.. with some add-ons.. I have never thought about it deep enough to put some names to it.
- DoctorNHL

Thanks for the feedback. It's not perfect, and I tried to include something of worth (bozak is currently our top centre, and holzer is the real deal). It really depends on how you look at it--is Luongo an elite goaltender with his best years ahead of him? Or is he a faceless 10-year contract that may-or-may-not have what it takes to get you into the playoffs let alone a cup one day.

I hear a lot of fans suggesting a multi-player deal including Raymond or something. Theres so many intangibles its really hard to pinpoint what it would take.

Btw, I stayed clear of picks, because I felt Vancouver wouldn't want them seeing as how they're so close to the cup.

Thanks, bud.

a valid point but no one on the leafs D maybe aside from pha9 and komi are going to clear bodies out from in front of the net.
- Blindfatkid

Did either of those guys ever clear bodies from in front of the net?

I was not upset.. willing to roll the dice on JVR...
- DoctorNHL

absolutely.

Did either of those guys ever clear bodies from in front of the net?
- gravyface

nope.

Agreed

Kaberle deserves nothing but respect from Leaf fans. He did everything for the team and the fan base and still gets crapped on. It really bugs me. Sundin will be tarnished even though he holds most Leaf records to this day.

There are tons of examples of that. Tucker never gave up on the team, although there was a fall off after the Corson thing, but the last year he was hurt and it took a toll on his numbers. He still played well after leaving.
- stevecarpetman

I agree with you fully on the first two.. ingrates we have supporting this team.. both of those guys were champions.. although Kaberle was the only one to lift a Cup.. he even did so out of his prime..

but you lose my on Tucker and Corcon.. who were feisty for the Leafs.. and I have both of their signatures on my Leaf jerseys but they were cancers in the room.. and Tucker like McCabe who would throw the body would do that as a huge minus player.. he would throw the check to get a limelight and be so out of position... the other team would capitalize.. they were both selfish in that respect.. and were rewarded with large contracts some of which we are still paying for.

I liked Tuckers play in the o Zone but on D he is as good as Steckel.. a huge minus also.

I was not upset.. willing to roll the dice on JVR...
- DoctorNHL

Burke gambles way to much.