Yes it clearly stunted Tyler Seguin and Sean Couturier..
- niteislander

Yeah, that's right, Seguin lit it up his first year in Boston playing 4th line minutes, to the tune of 22 pts and a minus 4 over 74 games on cup contender. Oh, and BTW, Seguin was not a fourth line player this past year when he scored 67 points. He played on one of the top lines all year. I didn't watch the Flyers all year, but find me a Flyers fan who will tell me that Couturier played fourth line minutes all year before you post him as an example. I bet that's not true.

If you think that playing a kid and trying to develop him at the NHL level to the tune of six minutes a game is the right way to go, then I'm glad you're not running the Isles (well, actually you might be since Snow apparently thinks its a good idea too, as Nino crashed and burned to the tune of one goal, one point in 55 games and the second worst plus-minus in the entire league).

I probably just ruined it. They won't post anything now.
- Cptmjl

Totally agree. Its amazes me that people think that PAP was "overpaid" by a four-year, $16M contract. That whole line of thinking is absurd. PAP got his first legit NHL crack with the Isles and dialed it up to the tune of 120 points over two full seasons in which he played virtually every game.

How is PAP not worth $4M per over fourt years to the Isles when bums like Grabner get a 5-year deal for $15M off one decent season and KO gets $14.5M over five years for doing virtually nothing yet? The PAP deal is the only true issue I have with Snow right now (this summer).
- Jethro09

I was more concerned with the length of the contract than I was the actual dollars. I figured he was asking something absurd like 6-7 years around $5m per, and I wanted nothing to do with that. 4 years $16m is more than fair. It's always possible we offered at-or-around that and he just did not want to be here anymore.

My point was that the two have nothing to do with each other. PA and Moulson were rare AHL reclamation projects that turned out to be two different degrees of home-runs. Boyes is an NHL reclamation project. At least we know he's done it before. Would you rather we signed another AHL lifer and hope for the best?
- eichiefs9

Err, that's exactly what I said.

No, I'd rather we either get a player that adds an element we don't have for that line or put KO there, who's already had success working with those players. Not putting some disinterested floater there hoping that maybe he performs because it's a no-pressure environment. If he gets an edge back and starts scoring, sure, give him more minutes and move him to a better line. But I think we've seen enough of entitling players to big minutes based on how they played four seasons ago. I think I'm stuck in a time loop, since I remember having these same exact debates last summer.

Yeah, that's right, Seguin lit it up his first year in Boston playing 4th line minutes, to the tune of 22 pts and a minus 4 over 74 games on cup contender. Oh, and BTW, Seguin was not a fourth line player this past year when he scored 67 points. He played on one of the top lines all year. I didn't watch the Flyers all year, but find me a Flyers fan who will tell me that Couturier played fourth line minutes all year before you post him as an example. I bet that's not true.

If you think that playing a kid and trying to develop him at the NHL level to the tune of six minutes a game is the right way to go, then I'm glad you're not running the Isles (well, actually you might be since Snow apparently thinks its a good idea too, as Nino crashed and burned to the tune of one goal, one point in 55 games and the second worst plus-minus in the entire league).
- Jethro09

Your point was "burying a young kid on 4th line" is foolish...

MY point is.. 4th line while learning the NHL is not a bad thing.. like Seguin and Cout... what if Nino explodes this year.. was it still dumb to get his feet wet on 4th line last year?

Your point was "burying a young kid on 4th line" is foolish...

MY point is.. 4th line while learning the NHL is not a bad thing.. like Seguin and Cout... what if Nino explodes this year.. was it still dumb to get his feet wet on 4th line last year?
- niteislander

The hard part is that Nino was ready to move on from the WHL, but not quite ready for the NHL.

It really sucks that they can't play in the AHL for a year to learn.

The same thing will happen to Strome this year.

He has accomplished enough in the OHL... but will either have to go back to St. Catharines or play on the Island.

Not really good for him or the team.

@ least Nino can play top 6 minutes in Bridgeport this year.

Your point was "burying a young kid on 4th line" is foolish...

MY point is.. 4th line while learning the NHL is not a bad thing.. like Seguin and Cout... what if Nino explodes this year.. was it still dumb to get his feet wet on 4th line last year?
- niteislander

And what if the Earth stops spinning? Because that's more likely to happen that Nino "blowing up" this season, based on his putrid performance last year. Nino looked like a deer in headlights all year. He looked completely overwhelmed. Certainly did not have the look of someone ready to "blow up".

I disagree with your point. Players develop by...playing. Playing lots of minutes and getting experience playing in all sorts of situations and being on the ice for all those situations. Its practice. Its repetition. You don't get that needed time on the ice sitting on the bench for 52 minutes/game next to Marty Reasoner.

Players also develop best when they have confidence. No way a player is going to get or remain confident when he's sitting his a** on the bench for 52 minutes a game and not contributing a thing on the ice when he does actually get a shift because he is entirely in over his head against his competition.

If you're point was legit, every team in hockey not contending for a championship would be sending their prospects to the NHL at 18 or 19 so they would get the "experience" of sitting on the bench and getting their teeth kicked in when they actually got on the ice and played. Players are brought along slowly by successful and credible organizations for a reason: its in the players' and organizations' best interests to do so. A properly developed prospect is much more valueable than one which is ruined by being rushed.

I'll jump back to the positive side for a second and say I like both of the other moves made yesterday, especially signing Carkner, as well as the trade for Visnovsky. Overall, it hasn't been a bad offseason so far. Just the one move I don't like.

As long as DP is an Islander, Capt Jack is the Coach, Wang is the owner and the Kool Aid Klan continues to post here. Then there will be reason for the Wolf Pack to exist!

- SCLI

Very true...I forgot about our great owner and coach...

I'll jump back to the positive side for a second and say I like both of the other moves made yesterday, especially signing Carkner, as well as the trade for Visnovsky. Overall, it hasn't been a bad offseason so far. Just the one move I don't like.
- UIF

I don't mind it if it's not with the mind set that he's replacing PA. There are still some players left out there.

Very true...I forgot about our great owner and coach...
- kear20

how could you?

And what if the Earth stops spinning? Because that's more likely to happen that Nino "blowing up" this season, based on his putrid performance last year. Nino looked like a deer in headlight all year. He looked completely overwhelmed. Certainly did not have the look of someone ready to "blow up".

I disagree with your point. Players develop by...playing. Playing lots of minutes and getting experience playing in all sorts of situations and being on the ice for all those situations. Its practice. Its repetition. You don't get that needed time on the ice sitting on the bench for 52 minutes/game next to Marty Reasoner.

Players also develop best when they have confidence. No way a player is going to get or remain confident when he's sitting his a** on the bench for 52 minutes a game and not contributing a thing on the ice when he does actually get a shift because he is entirely in over his head against his competition.

If you're point was legit, every team in hockey not contending for a championship would be sending their prospects to the NHL at 18 or 19 so they would get the "experience" of sitting on the bench and getting their teeth kicked in when they actually got on the ice and played. Players are brought along slowly by successful and credible organizations for a reason: its in the players' and organizations' best interests to do so. A properly developed prospect is much more valueable than one which is ruined by being rushed.
- Jethro09

Players also develop by being coached, and by learning the correct way to train, and by learning what it takes to make it in the NHL. They learn that going out every night isn't a good idea. They learn how to do all the little things .. both on and off the ice. Some very good prospects have been ruined by their College or Junior programs... Okposo and Ness were 2 that Islanders were not happy with how their developement was handled. At least with Nino with the Isles they have some control over that stuff.

Was it the right decision?... no idea.. but it is not as black and white as you make it out to be.

He only played about 6 minutes a game.. but by the end of the year he was getting some PP time, he was much better backchecking and was crashing the net. IN a perfect world he would have been in AHL... but this system isn't perfect.

Players also develop by being coached, and by learning the correct way to train, and by learning what it takes to make it in the NHL. They learn that going out every night isn't a good idea. They learn how to do all the little things .. both on and off the ice. Some very good prospects have been ruined by their College or Junior programs... Okposo and Ness were 2 that Islanders were not happy with how their developement was handled. At least with Nino with the Isles they have some control over that stuff.

Was it the right decision?... no idea.. but it is not as black and white as you make it out to be.

He only played about 6 minutes a game.. but by the end of the year he was getting some PP time, he was much better backchecking and was crashing the net. IN a perfect world he would have been in AHL... but this system isn't perfect.
- niteislander

Love ya man but this was a bad couple sentences

Love ya man but this was a bad couple sentences
- Cptmjl

are you Grammar policing me? I would get death penalty.

are you Grammar policing me? I would get death penalty.
- niteislander

Never. I'm in no position to do that. Just the examples you used for players we developed to make your point maybe wasn't so good? I know you followed it up with not knowing how they'll end up but Nino was a mistake. Even if the kid comes out flying. He should have never been handled the way he was.

Never. I'm in no position to do that. Just the examples you used for players we developed to make your point maybe wasn't so good? I know you followed it up with not knowing how they'll end up but Nino was a mistake. Even if the kid comes out flying. He should have never been handled the way he was.
- Cptmjl

The players I mentioned I was talking about their developement in College. The isles were not happy with how Ness and Okposo was handled away from the team.

Nino... we will see what happens this year.

Why does it seem like he has something left in the tank? I like the signing but not as a replacement for PA.
- Cptmjl

the same jackasses who said PA will be getting 5-5.5 million/year said boyes is replacing pap....let camp play out...maybe theyll have chemistry on the top line and he will "replace" pap, maybe hell blow donkey Richard and be stuck on the 3rd line...no one knows yet....

Yes it clearly stunted Tyler Seguin and Sean Couturier..
- niteislander

how is seguin or SC better proof than nino?

especially considering nino/whoever-else-you-want-on-the-fourth-line will be in the same system that nino wasnt able to excel with?

the same jackasses who said PA will be getting 5-5.5 million/year said boyes is replacing pap....let camp play out...maybe theyll have chemistry on the top line and he will "replace" pap, maybe hell blow donkey Richard and be stuck on the 3rd line...no one knows yet....
- LetsGoIsles

I agree. I just don't like the idea of going into camp expecting him too. Snow has that mind set(I think?). There are still more players that could be added to upgrade the offence so I'll wait and see.

Goal totals for that "sniper" in those same years:

43
33
14
17
8

Hey, maybe the stars align and it does work. But the guy got first power-play unit time last season with some pretty good players in Buffalo. It's not like he was only playing with stiffs like Pandolfo and Reasoner and that's why he didn't take the league by storm. Most nights he woke up only long enough to score some shootout goals. You'll have to trust me on that one. Since the Sabres were ahead of the Isles for most of the year in the standings, I had to yield the TV to my wife and watch her team play, catching the Isles games later on dvr
- UIF

hahaha i trust your opinion for sure....my point is that i think its a good low risk/high reward signing. (assuming he isnt "replacing" pap) im fine with it.

if he is replacing pap, the point production isnt totally off....considering a lot of people believe (including myself) that paps points were due to JT and MM, im hopeful that even if he is "replacing" or assigned to the 1st line that JT and MM can work their magic with BB

hahaha i trust your opinion for sure....my point is that i think its a good low risk/high reward signing. (assuming he isnt "replacing" pap) im fine with it.

if he is replacing pap, the point production isnt totally off....considering a lot of people believe (including myself) that paps points were due to JT and MM, im hopeful that even if he is "replacing" or assigned to the 1st line that JT and MM can work their magic with BB
- LetsGoIsles

Exactly my point.

- eichiefs9

eklund is a yahoo E5

eklund is a yahoo E5
- Cptmjl

I would share my feelings on Ek but I got a 3 day ban last week for saying these actual words: "Don't get angry because you have the worst GM in hockey", speaking about Jay Feaster after he signed Wideman to that ridiculous deal. Luckily I emailed them to complain and the guy that responded thought the ban was completely ridiculous

Yeah, that's right, Seguin lit it up his first year in Boston playing 4th line minutes, to the tune of 22 pts and a minus 4 over 74 games on cup contender. Oh, and BTW, Seguin was not a fourth line player this past year when he scored 67 points. He played on one of the top lines all year. I didn't watch the Flyers all year, but find me a Flyers fan who will tell me that Couturier played fourth line minutes all year before you post him as an example. I bet that's not true.

If you think that playing a kid and trying to develop him at the NHL level to the tune of six minutes a game is the right way to go, then I'm glad you're not running the Isles (well, actually you might be since Snow apparently thinks its a good idea too, as Nino crashed and burned to the tune of one goal, one point in 55 games and the second worst plus-minus in the entire league).
- Jethro09

SC: (with Talbot and Rinaldo)
TOI/G
14:08

Nino: (with Reasoner and Pandalfo)
TOI/G
10:07

not only did SC have more minutes/game than nino he had more talent and was CERTAINLY in a better position to be more aggressive knowing he had someone by his side to have his back in case things got testy...nino, well he had reasoner and pandalfo