Do the Pens really have the right assets if they have to go the trade route though? I'm not sure they have the right ones for Ryan. Your point remains though, I think Anaheim gets a bit more leverage once those guys are gone.
- eayost

I thought the original idea was that the pens sign UFA Parise (no trade), and the rags get Nash via trade. Leaving Ryan as a top winger available via trade.

The demand for Bobby Ryan decreases one players start signing places. Way more teams are likely to sign Parise then they are to trade away pieces to get Bobby Ryan.

It is similar to the idea that if players wait longer in free agency, the bargaining power shifts to the team because there are less suitors for that player. It is the same situation here, it's just a trade situation. The longer they wait, the more the price will drop.
- Flyers2821

If Ryan was a UFA, I would agree. But, the Ducks don't have to trade Ryan... If they don't like the trade offers, they keep him - despite his calls for a trade. The Duck hold the power.

So if the Flyers lose out on Matt Carle... what d-man would you like to see them sign? They would have to at least sign one d-man

If Ryan was a UFA, I would agree. But, the Ducks don't have to trade Ryan... If they don't like the trade offers, they keep him - despite his calls for a trade. The Duck hold the power.
- leon neon

If history has taught anything, an unhappy player can dictate A LOT.

Bill,

About cap restrictions during the offseason:
Since all players count towards the cap such as Pronger (LTIR) and Walker (1-Way contract), does that mean a team can technically remove salary off its cap if the contract is an Entry level deal during the offseason if they meet requirements B Schenn, Couturier, Wellwood, Rinaldo?

I'm not sure if Schenn and Cooter meet requirements to be technically sent down, even though they are slated for roster spots. Is there a minimum roster size limit during the offseason as well?

Basically I am wondering if a team can "hide" salary during the offseason until they can utilize LTIR and waivers?
- Glak18

Everyone on a one-way deal counts against the cap.
Everyone on a two-way deal counts in proportion to the number of games spent on the NHL roster.

There is no hiding. There are just rules and calculations. There is no sending down.

I thought the original idea was that the pens sign UFA Parise (no trade), and the rags get Nash via trade. Leaving Ryan as a top winger available via trade.
- leon neon

One thing I am very worried about..Rangers get Nash, Parise and Suter go to Pitt. An already killer division will have become mass murder. I'm ok with not getting any of them as long as our roster gets filled out, but I want all these guys not to go in our div if we don't get em.

If history has taught anything, an unhappy player can dictate A LOT.
- Flyers2821

If they have a NMC. Right now Bobby Ryan can't influence anything unless he threatens to hold out. And we're a far way from that.

If Ryan was a UFA, I would agree. But, the Ducks don't have to trade Ryan... If they don't like the trade offers, they keep him - despite his calls for a trade. The Duck hold the power.
- leon neon

That's the big reason why Ryan's price won't really come down IMO, unless Ryan demands a trade. They could all kiss and make up for all we know. Nash on the otherhand... I think the asking price for him would have to drop the longer the whole thing drags out. That's why he hasn't been traded yet. I think teams are just waiting for the demands to be more reasonable.

I'm actually hoping the Preds shock the world and resign Suter, I have a lot of respect for Poile. I expect the Flyers to meet any salary demand Parise's agent might have. I think they will be suitors for him up until the end of his decision.

Bill,

About cap restrictions during the offseason:
Since all players count towards the cap such as Pronger (LTIR) and Walker (1-Way contract), does that mean a team can technically remove salary off its cap if the contract is an Entry level deal during the offseason if they meet requirements B Schenn, Couturier, Wellwood, Rinaldo?

I'm not sure if Schenn and Cooter meet requirements to be technically sent down, even though they are slated for roster spots. Is there a minimum roster size limit during the offseason as well?

Basically I am wondering if a team can "hide" salary during the offseason until they can utilize LTIR and waivers?
- Glak18

These are how the players count on the cap in the offseason...

- All players on one-way contracts, regardless of where (or if) they were playing the previous year.
- All players on two-way contracts, in proportion to the number of days spent on an NHL roster the previous season.
- All restricted free agents who have been extended a qualifying offer (while the offer is valid), with one-way qualifying offers counting in full and two-way qualifying offers counting as described in No. 2.
- All restricted free agents signed to an offer sheet (such players count against the team extending the offer sheet while it is still valid).
- All buyouts.


I made the mistake early on of thinking the offseason cap operates like the regular season cap with sending players down and LTIR and all that stuff, but it is completely different.

In order to determine how much a two-way players (schenn, couturier, wellwood, rinaldo) cap hit is in the offseason... you need to know the exact amount of days they were on the big league roster last year and apply that to their cap hit.

Best of luck calculating that.

Everyone on a one-way deal counts against the cap.
Everyone on a two-way deal counts in proportion to the number of games spent on the NHL roster.

There is no hiding. There are just rules and calculations. There is no sending down.
- bodiva88

Thanks. So it is all proportional to games played...career or previous season?

If they have a NMC. Right now Bobby Ryan can't influence anything unless he threatens to hold out. And we're a far way from that.
- hereticpride

NMC or not, unhappy players can dictate A LOT.

I just got the feeling that Flyers will have Rick Nash by either today or tomorrow. I understand leveraging against the Rangers, but now this is THREE times we have been in discussions for him. First at the TDL, then before the draft, and now again. When does it become more about the Flyers really want him vs. driving up the price for the Rags. Even Dreger thinks he either goes to NYR or PHI. Just sayin'

I just got the feeling that Flyers will have Rick Nash by either today or tomorrow. I understand leveraging against the Rangers, but now this is THREE times we have been in discussions for him. First at the TDL, then before the draft, and now again. When does it become more about the Flyers really want him vs. driving up the price for the Rags. Even Dreger thinks he either goes to NYR or PHI. Just sayin'
- Flyers1218

Whatever you are willing to give up for Rick Nash, give up a little less and get Bobby Ryan. That is my philosophy. Saves you nearly $3 mill in cap space and you are still pairing Giroux up with an elite goal scoring winger. Oh and he is MUCH younger than Nash.

These are how the players count on the cap in the offseason...
- All players on one-way contracts, regardless of where (or if) they were playing the previous year.
- All players on two-way contracts, in proportion to the number of days spent on an NHL roster the previous season.
- All restricted free agents who have been extended a qualifying offer (while the offer is valid), with one-way qualifying offers counting in full and two-way qualifying offers counting as described in No. 2.
- All restricted free agents signed to an offer sheet (such players count against the team extending the offer sheet while it is still valid).
- All buyouts.


I made the mistake early on of thinking the offseason cap operates like the regular season cap with sending players down and LTIR and all that stuff, but it is completely different.

In order to determine how much a two-way players (schenn, couturier, wellwood, rinaldo) cap hit is in the offseason... you need to know the exact amount of days they were on the big league roster last year and apply that to their cap hit.

Best of luck calculating that.
- Flyers2821

Awesome. Thank you. Now it will be easy punching in those formulas. Much appreciated to you and Bo.

I'm actually hoping the Preds shock the world and resign Suter, I have a lot of respect for Poile. I expect the Flyers to meet any salary demand Parise's agent might have. I think they will be suitors for him up until the end of his decision.
- ravishingone

Preds would love to have Suter back. It's a matter of Suter deciding to shock everyone and return there. If you ask me Weber is the better player but the safest bet for the franchises future would be to get Suter long term and get a big return for Weber. Weber just might walk next year too. If I were the Preds I'd be doing everything in my power to bring Suter back.

Clemmensen off the market. I'm getting nervous about Leighton :/

Awesome. Thank you. Now it will be easy punching in those formulas. Much appreciated to you and Bo.
- Glak18

You got it. Many in here have been bashing CapGeek.com but I have found it to be a tremendous resource for cap situations.

How do you plan to determine how many days the two-way players were on the roster?

Whatever you are willing to give up for Rick Nash, give up a little less and get Bobby Ryan. That is my philosophy. Saves you nearly $3 mill in cap space and you are still pairing Giroux up with an elite goal scoring winger. Oh and he is MUCH younger than Nash.
- Flyers2821

Didn't say that I wanted Nash more than Ryan. To be honest, after doing a lot of thinking and discussing on this topic... I want 1 of Ryan, Nash, or Parise.

Whatever you are willing to give up for Rick Nash, give up a little less and get Bobby Ryan. That is my philosophy. Saves you nearly $3 mill in cap space and you are still pairing Giroux up with an elite goal scoring winger. Oh and he is MUCH younger than Nash.
- Flyers2821

Being 3 years younger is capital letters worthy?

I'll stick my head out now and say when the Bobby Ryan trade goes down the response will be that the acquiring team got the better end of the deal.

Now lets talk about how much Parise is gonna get... 8-10 years 6.5-8 mill?
- Flyers2821

possible, but you're assuming that the suitors are going to just dry up and that ANA will be at a disadvantage. their situation is diff than CLB.

Being 3 years younger is capital letters worthy?
- eayost

In the NHL, absolutely. Especially when you are talking about entering his prime years in the NHL. NHL history suggests his next 5 years will be the best of his career.

Whatever you are willing to give up for Rick Nash, give up a little less and get Bobby Ryan. That is my philosophy. Saves you nearly $3 mill in cap space and you are still pairing Giroux up with an elite goal scoring winger. Oh and he is MUCH younger than Nash.
- Flyers2821

3 years younger. Ryan is also under contract for 3 less years tho. That angle is kind of a wash in my eyes.

3 years younger. Ryan is also under contract for 3 less years tho. That angle is kind of a wash in my eyes.
- hereticpride

Would you agree a players prime years in the NHL are around 25-32? Your talking about 3 extra years of a player in his prime... that is a major factor.

And yes, he is under contract for 3 less years, but he wants to be a Flyer. So to me, that gives us a major leg up in signing him after that contract is up.

Bobby Ryan is absolutely the better option than Rick Nash in terms of a trade for the Flyers right now. In my opinion at least.

So where does carle sign. I say the avs