Are you living in 2008 or something?
- LordStanley88

maybe i am, maybe i am...

What makes JVR a higher valued asset? Wouldn't a potential top pairing defenseman be more valuable?
- Flyers1218

Realistically he could take Carles minutes without an issue. Now how effective he would be is up for debate, but the guy is a horse and hasn't missed a game in a couple seasons or something like that.

NH4 is overpayed and would cost valuable assets. No thanks.

you think carle is as good or better than jaybo? yikes.
- flyerscup2011

What has J-Bo shown the last few years? He is making nearly 7MM. I'd prefer to have neither over 6MM. To trade assets for a guy that has regressed so poorly, but making top-10 defensive money is horrible idea.

yea but we have to sign carle so we can overpay for Bobby Ryan, c'mon man this on page 17 of the Hockeybuzz General Manager's learning guide, get with it
- JoeRussomanno

I think Bobby Ryan contact is fair for what he brings to the table as a 30 goal scorer, espechially if he where to mesh well with G or Danny B...

Plus As long as we have a good 3rd/4th line that plays well defensively having Slightly above average defensemen for a 5th and 6th pairing can be sillly. The backchecking and defensive play of players like Couts, Talbot, and Voracek all help out, I would rather a player with a big shot to help out our points more than anything.

sorry, I'm being too light hearted.

OK try this

we still have giroux, couts and now the schenn brothers to look forward to, as well as another year of hartnell's antics

they are going to be a very good team no matter what carle does on 7/1
- Marc D

Correct.

Noentheless, I'm becoming increasingly worried that Homer is going to do something foolish and turn this off-season into a mess.

The most prudent path if they stand to lose Carle, and I'm not saying that the Flyers would take this based on their recent history, would be to stand pat.

The cost of overpaying for a Plan B, Plan C etc is greater than just starting the season with Gus/MAB/Lilja holding down the 6-7 spots and exploring the possibility of in-season deals, when the cost is must less substantial.

With that said, one thing the Flyers have never been able to learn is that Stanley Cups aren't won on paper in July -- striving for a full-proof lineup at this stage just closes off the possibility of unforeseen opportunities in the future.
- Tomahawk

Agreed 100%. The roster in October doesn't have to be the same one in April. Don't make a move to make a move. Make the right move. And re-signing Carle to anything above 5.5M is the wrong move.

Are you living in 2008 or something?
- LordStanley88

JB is overrated and overpaid.

I think Bobby Ryan contact is fair for what he brings to the table as a 30 goal scorer, espechially if he where to mesh well with G or Danny B...

Plus As long as we have a good 3rd/4th line that plays well defensively having Slightly above average defensemen for a 5th and 6th pairing can be sillly. The backchecking and defensive play of players like Couts, Talbot, and Voracek all help out, I would rather a player with a big shot to help out our points more than anything.
- fivedollarsheep

Ryan's contract is more than fair.

A 40+ goal potential power froward with his track record? Absolutely fair. Players like that don't grown on trees.

What has J-Bo shown the last few years? He is making nearly 7MM. I'd prefer to have neither over 6MM. To trade assets for a guy that has regressed so poorly, but making top-10 defensive money is horrible idea.
- Flyers1218

time will tell as to which of us is correct, but jbo is bigger, more physical and has a better shot. his defense has been fine, it's his offense that has regressed. playing in calgary can't help that. what is to say his offensive game won't improve in lava's system?

I think Bobby Ryan contact is fair for what he brings to the table as a 30 goal scorer, espechially if he where to mesh well with G or Danny B...

Plus As long as we have a good 3rd/4th line that plays well defensively having Slightly above average defensemen for a 5th and 6th pairing can be sillly. The backchecking and defensive play of players like Couts, Talbot, and Voracek all help out, I would rather a player with a big shot to help out our points more than anything.
- fivedollarsheep

I wasn't talking about his contract. That was in reference to all the ridiculous trade proposals I've seen to get him.

What has J-Bo shown the last few years? He is making nearly 7MM. I'd prefer to have neither over 6MM. To trade assets for a guy that has regressed so poorly, but making top-10 defensive money is horrible idea.
- Flyers1218

Bingo. We have a winner.

he seems to take one calculated risk after another. we're good, but are we any closer to a cup?
- isaiah520

Trading JVR for Luke Schenn was not a calculate risk.

I wasn't talking about his contract. That was in reference to all the ridiculous trade proposals I've seen to get him.
- JoeRussomanno

Oooo okay point well taken then haha

The most prudent path if they stand to lose Carle, and I'm not saying that the Flyers would take this based on their recent history, would be to stand pat.

The cost of overpaying for a Plan B, Plan C etc is greater than just starting the season with Gus/MAB/Lilja holding down the 6-7 spots and exploring the possibility of in-season deals, when the cost is must less substantial.

With that said, one thing the Flyers have never been able to learn is that Stanley Cups aren't won on paper in July -- striving for a full-proof lineup at this stage just closes off the possibility of unforeseen opportunities in the future.
- Tomahawk

Trading JVR for Luke Schenn was not a calculate risk.
- MJL

I think it was a calculated risk, even for Toronto. There's no guarantee what either player will develop into. The likelihood is there that they both become good players but it's as equally likely they won't.

time will tell as to which of us is correct, but jbo is bigger, more physical and has a better shot. his defense has been fine, it's his offense that has regressed. playing in calgary can't help that. what is to say his offensive game won't improve in lava's system?
- flyerscup2011

His defensive game has been a mess there as well and it has become laughable with how little physical contact he engages in. But hey, lets trade assets and eat up 6.7MM of cap space for a guy who may or may not pull his head out his ass.

Correct.

Noentheless, I'm becoming increasingly worried that Homer is going to do something foolish and turn this off-season into a mess.
- LordStanley88

Not saying we're all out of the danger zone just yet, but Homer seems to have taken that bitter medicine from the whole Bryzgalov debacle and emerged with a new found appreciation for patience and deliberate action.

His defensive game has been a mess there as well and it has become laughable with how little physical contact he engages in. But hey, lets trade assets and eat up 6.7MM of cap space for a guy who may or may not pull his head out his ass.
- Flyers1218

i do hate his cap hit, and i have not seen him play much, but carle is gone, his value skyrocketed and our cap space is miniscule.

Not saying we're all out of the danger zone just yet, but Homer seems to have taken that bitter medicine from the whole Bryzgalov debacle and emerged with a new found appreciation for patience and deliberate action.
- Tomahawk

I haven't noticed this patience you speak of...

To clarify though, I'm a big supporter of Homer.

Correct.

Nonetheless, I'm becoming increasingly worried that Homer is going to do something foolish and turn this off-season into a mess.
- LordStanley88

He needs to mainly get a deal done with Jake Voracek and get a competent back up goalie. After that if he does nothing, then fine.

If they let Carle walk, I personally would like to see another veteran UFA defenseman brought in if they can find one for the right price. If not then start the year with MAB as #6. I'm OK with the five guys plus MAB but one injury makes it very shaky.

Aaron Rome from Van is still unsigned, so is Colaiacovo. I even though that Harrold guy from NJ did an OK job, and he was paid 550k last year and is UFA. Aucoin or Salo for 1 yr, maybe.

i do hate his cap hit, and i have not seen him play much, but carle is gone, his value skyrocketed and our cap space is miniscule.
- flyerscup2011

Riiiiiiiiiiiigghhhhttt, so why add a guy that has essentially stopped playing after he got paid, and take away 6.7MM of Cap Space for J-Bo.

He needs to mainly get a deal done with Jake Voracek and get a competent back up goalie. After that if he does nothing, then fine.

If they let Carle walk, I personally would like to see another veteran UFA defenseman brought in if they can find one for the right price. If not then start the year with MAB as #6. I'm OK with the five guys plus MAB but one injury makes it very shaky.

Aaron Rome from Van is still unsigned, so is Colaiacovo. I even though that Harrold guy from NJ did an OK job, and he was paid 550k last year and is UFA. Aucoin or Salo for 1 yr, maybe.
- Marc D

didn't aucoin make comments similar to those made by derek morris about bryz? i could be totally wrong, but for some reason i feel as if that was the case

that's my main reservation about him on a one year deal, if true of course

He needs to mainly get a deal done with Jake Voracek and get a competent back up goalie. After that if he does nothing, then fine.

If they let Carle walk, I personally would like to see another veteran UFA defenseman brought in if they can find one for the right price. If not then start the year with MAB as #6. I'm OK with the five guys plus MAB but one injury makes it very shaky.

Aaron Rome from Van is still unsigned, so is Colaiacovo. I even though that Harrold guy from NJ did an OK job, and he was paid 550k last year and is UFA. Aucoin or Salo for 1 yr, maybe.
- Marc D

I still think they need:

-A front-line winger to pair Giroux and take some pressure off of him (opts. Ryan, Nash, Jagr, Doan, etc.)
-A d-man that can eat 22+ minutes (opt. Carle, Garrison, trades)
-A 4th line center that can WIN faceoffs and kill penalties (McClement, Moore, etc.)
-A tough, grinding bottom 6 forward (Prust wold be ideal IMO)
-Back-up goalie

time will tell as to which of us is correct, but jbo is bigger, more physical and has a better shot. his defense has been fine, it's his offense that has regressed. playing in calgary can't help that. what is to say his offensive game won't improve in lava's system?
- flyerscup2011

JBo was never a great puck-mover, but his physical tools convinced scouts and GMs alike that he would one day grow into one. All these years later, it's the same old story.

The same could be said about his defensive game -- he has all the tools to be a dominant defensive player, but that hasn't emerged either, but people are somehow still holding out hope that he'll turn the corner.

At this stage, the kid is what he is -- a grossly overpaid underachiever.