... and apparently by Patrik Elias as well, who called him the Flyers' best forward after Giroux.
- bmeltzer

Voracek backs off the defense better than any forward we have. He may be the best skating forward we have. He is underrated defensively. He is very strong on the puck. He is still very young. And has improved noticeably even from the beginning of the season to the end. He has size, is skilled with the puck, and is only now starting to realize how good he can be.

I don't see how any of us over rate him in any way. I think it is more accurate to say that too many people in here OVER rate Bobby Ryan.

Straight up I would still deal him for Ryan, but not as part of the insane deals we have seen thrown around.

I love how Ryan has become a must have for the Flyers. He mentions he wants to come here and all of a sudden he's a household name who we should give up 2 roster players, 1 of which will weaken our defense, and a draft pick. I don't get it. Scoring was not an issue last year.
- funmaster18

Totally agree. No need for Nash or Ryan. If we break the bank, do it for Weber.. Otherwise.. let the group develop. Think of the type of games that LA, NJ etc won deep into the playoffs. Tight checking low scoring. Defense goaltending, DEPTH scoring. Not flashy regular season scoring or a one line attack that can be shut down.

So if we are under the assumption that Carle is going to sign when FA begins at right around 4.5 million... this is kinda where the team sits roster wise... with the potential of signing Voracek as well... (ignoring two-way contracts counting in offseason)

FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / ____________
Wayne Simmonds ($1.750m) / Brayden Schenn ($3.110m)/Danny Briere ($6.500m)
Eric Wellwood ($0.580m) / Sean Couturier ($1.375m) / Matt Read ($0.900m)
Zac Rinaldo ($0.544m) / Maxime Talbot ($1.750m) / ____________
Jody Shelley ($1.100m)

DEFENSEMEN
Braydon Coburn ($4.500m) / Nicklas Grossmann ($3.500m)
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Luke Schenn ($3.600m)
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) / Matt Carle ($4.500m)
Andreas Lilja ($0.738m) / Marc-Andre Bourdon ($0.800m)
LTIR: Chris Pronger ($4.921m)

GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.667m)
Martin Biron ($0.875m)
------

SALARY CAP: $70,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $64,993,373; BONUSES: $2,705,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $5,306,627
- Flyers2821

Biron would want more than that.

So if we are under the assumption that Carle is going to sign when FA begins at right around 4.5 million... this is kinda where the team sits roster wise... with the potential of signing Voracek as well... (ignoring two-way contracts counting in offseason)

FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / ____________
Wayne Simmonds ($1.750m) / Brayden Schenn ($3.110m)/Danny Briere ($6.500m)
Eric Wellwood ($0.580m) / Sean Couturier ($1.375m) / Matt Read ($0.900m)
Zac Rinaldo ($0.544m) / Maxime Talbot ($1.750m) / ____________
Jody Shelley ($1.100m)

DEFENSEMEN
Braydon Coburn ($4.500m) / Nicklas Grossmann ($3.500m)
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Luke Schenn ($3.600m)
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) / Matt Carle ($4.500m)
Andreas Lilja ($0.738m) / Marc-Andre Bourdon ($0.800m)
LTIR: Chris Pronger ($4.921m)

GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.667m)
Martin Biron ($0.875m)
------

SALARY CAP: $70,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $64,993,373; BONUSES: $2,705,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $5,306,627
- Flyers2821

Leaves them with room to fit Parise and Prust under if they wanted to.

Don't think they'll get Parise though.

Biron would want more than that.
- NickTheKid87

I think Biron would take it if you gave him 2 years.

I don't have a problem with him having the choice of where to go. That's what you get for going to school instead of juniors and being an adult by the time you sign the first contract. But I have issue with him demanding he should automatically slot in a particular role when he hasn't played a day. Of course, what you promise and what he ends up being capable of may be entirely different things. And if they are, the contract doesn't guarantee he doesn't end up in the AHL for seasoning or on a reduced role with his shiny new NHL team. And I would wonder how he might handle that.
- bodiva88

Good point. I think it just says a lot that he wouldn't commit to Anaheim. I don't want a guy who plays more for the name on the back than the crest on the front.

So... re-sign Carle (4.5 mill), re-sign voracek (3.5 mill), re-sign MAB ($900k)... the roster looks as follows... would be happy with this... maybe slide wellwood onto the 4th line and get Couturier/Read a defensively responsible veteran winger to play with and create a great shut down third line?

FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Jakub Voracek ($3.500m)
Wayne Simmonds ($1.750m)/Brayden Schenn ($3.110m)/ Danny Briere ($6.500m)
______________ / Sean Couturier ($1.375m) / Matt Read ($0.900m)
Zac Rinaldo ($0.544m) / Maxime Talbot ($1.750m) /Eric Wellwood ($0.580m)
Jody Shelley ($1.100m)

DEFENSEMEN
Braydon Coburn ($4.500m) / Nicklas Grossmann ($3.500m)
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Luke Schenn ($3.600m)
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) / Matt Carle ($4.500m)
Andreas Lilja ($0.738m) / Marc-Andre Bourdon ($0.800m)
Chris Pronger ($4.921m)

GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.667m)
__________________

------

SALARY CAP: $70,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $67,618,373; BONUSES: $2,705,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $2,681,627


This leaves the Flyers with a good bit of cap space during the regular season to play with once they put Pronger on LTIR.

Voracek backs off the defense better than any forward we have. He may be the best skating forward we have. He is underrated defensively. He is very strong on the puck. He is still very young. And has improved noticeably even from the beginning of the season to the end. He has size, is skilled with the puck, and is only now starting to realize how good he can be.

I don't see how any of us over rate him in any way. I think it is more accurate to say that too many people in here OVER rate Bobby Ryan.

Straight up I would still deal him for Ryan, but not as part of the insane deals we have seen thrown around.
- MBFlyerfan

+1

Biron would want more than that.
- NickTheKid87

Why? That is waht he made as a backup in NY...

I think Biron would take it if you gave him 2 years.
- MBFlyerfan

I'd do that.

Biron would want more than that.
- NickTheKid87

Doubtful he'll get it, and he might even get less.

There's about 12 decent options available and only a handful of job openings.

Totally agree. No need for Nash or Ryan. If we break the bank, do it for Weber.. Otherwise.. let the group develop. Think of the type of games that LA, NJ etc won deep into the playoffs. Tight checking low scoring. Defense goaltending, DEPTH scoring. Not flashy regular season scoring or a one line attack that can be shut down.
- Hextall271

Completely agree. The forwards are good enough once they re-sign Jager or find a replacement. I'm excited to see B Schenn take another step this year. Doesn't have to be offensively. I think him taking his aggressive forecheck and physical game to the next level will do wonders on its own. If he can pick up the offense too that would be even better.

Ryan could post 40-42 goals just next season IMO. I think people are underrating his talents and potential.

Why? That is waht he made as a backup in NY...
- Flyers2821

He played well though so I think he'd get around $1m-$1.3m on the open market as a back-up. I think he stays in NY regardless.

so we're back to

Hartnell - Giroux - Jagr
Read - Briere - Voracek
Simmonds - Coots - Schenn
Rinaldo - Talbot - Wellwood

Timonen - Carle
Grossmann - Coburn
Meszaros - Schenn
Gus - MAB
Lilja

not bad at all.
- flyersfan51

oh i don't know.
I'm not into playing armchair GM

would i love Weber, yes w/o gutting the roster. So, why not make a run for him next year if he doesn't sign an extension this year.
would i love Parise and the same goes with Nash (w/o gutting the roster).

we will all find out some of the answers this weekend.
But signing the 41 year old would be the end of the world.

EDIT:
Add Ryan

Ryan could post 40-42 goals just next season IMO. I think people are underrating his talents and potential.
- LordStanley88

That's a big word in this regard. Especially for a team that doesn't lack offense.

Totally agree. No need for Nash or Ryan. If we break the bank, do it for Weber.. Otherwise.. let the group develop. Think of the type of games that LA, NJ etc won deep into the playoffs. Tight checking low scoring. Defense goaltending, DEPTH scoring. Not flashy regular season scoring or a one line attack that can be shut down.
- Hextall271

So... re-sign Carle (4.5 mill), re-sign voracek (3.5 mill), re-sign MAB ($900k)... the roster looks as follows... would be happy with this... maybe slide wellwood onto the 4th line and get Couturier/Read a defensively responsible veteran winger to play with and create a great shut down third line?

FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Jakub Voracek ($3.500m)
Wayne Simmonds ($1.750m)/Brayden Schenn ($3.110m)/ Danny Briere ($6.500m)
______________ / Sean Couturier ($1.375m) / Matt Read ($0.900m)
Zac Rinaldo ($0.544m) / Maxime Talbot ($1.750m) /Eric Wellwood ($0.580m)
Jody Shelley ($1.100m)

DEFENSEMEN
Braydon Coburn ($4.500m) / Nicklas Grossmann ($3.500m)
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Luke Schenn ($3.600m)
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) / Matt Carle ($4.500m)
Andreas Lilja ($0.738m) / Marc-Andre Bourdon ($0.800m)
Chris Pronger ($4.921m)

GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.667m)
__________________

------

SALARY CAP: $70,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $67,618,373; BONUSES: $2,705,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $2,681,627


This leaves the Flyers with a good bit of cap space during the regular season to play with once they put Pronger on LTIR.
- Flyers2821

give me Ryan at 5.1 over Voracek at 3.5

That's a big word in this regard. Especially for a team that doesn't lack offense.
- NickTheKid87

He scored 30+ for the past 4 years playing with guys who are not even close to what Claude Giroux is as a playmaker. Bobby Ryan would score 40 a season playing with a top 2-3 playmaker in the NHL.

hey bill,

do you have any idea of the kind of return dallas would be seeking for steve ott? my apologies if you answered this in another thread....
- FlyerMike18

Ott to me is a fantastic pick up if we walk away from rinaldo.

Ryan could post 40-42 goals just next season IMO. I think people are underrating his talents and potential.
- LordStanley88

He could, or he could just as easily score 30-35 like he has been, playing with some pretty good players in their own right. And his defensive liabilities might end up cancelling out the extra goals many predict he will get playing here.

He is not worth a top 6 forward, a top 4 dman and a first round pick in any world.

give me Ryan at 5.1 over Voracek at 3.5
- flyersfan51

If you can move Jake to get Ryan, fine with me. I would be all for that.

Jake, MAB, 1st for Bobby Ryan?

Problem with this is if Kimmo isn't ready or Schenn struggles (or both) were back to having a 3rd pairing that other teams will expose again
- puckhead17

Agree.

I would love to spend less on D but with Kimmo's age and health, Mez's back surgery, not having a true #1 Dman, and after witnessing what happened with playoff injuries (missing Mez, Pronger, Grossmann, and Kubina.... Kimmo pretty dinged up).... I'd rather have the depth there this season. Let's face it - our defense, dinged up and all, sucked last season.

Next off-season its a different story. We'd have 4 solid top 4 dmen locked up for 3 more seasons at reasonable AAV's:

Coburn ($4.5)
Carle ($4.75)
Grossmann ($3.5)
Schenn ($3.6)

I think with MAB, Gus, Lauridsen, and Manning all pushing for NHL jobs we have the luxury of trading Mez to acquire another asset (and free up $4 million) and to just let Kimmo retire into the sunset (freeing up another $6.3 million).

Hopefully with the new CBA we can get Pronger off our cap (freeing up another $5 million) and we can make a run at a true #1 Dman.

I think a little patience is in order here.

Ryan could post 40-42 goals just next season IMO. I think people are underrating his talents and potential.
- LordStanley88

I think people are overrating the need for him.

He scored 30+ for the past 4 years playing with guys who are not even close to what Claude Giroux is as a playmaker. Bobby Ryan would score 40 a season playing with Claude Giroux.
- Flyers2821

I think you're vastly overlooking the talent level of Ryan's current linemates.