Politics
- puckhead17

Yeah, there still is a lot of hatred of the Flyers up here in Kanida.

Speaking of politics, a few years back Ken Dryen was running for political office (as a Liberal Member of Parliament). One of his speeches he was quoted as saying as an analogy, that the conservative (rival party) were like the Flyers. He said in 76, he and the Habs knew that they had to defeat this evil empire that had taken over and ruined the game with bullying tactics(paraphrase) and they did everythng to do so and succeeded. He was basically intimating that he was the man to defeat the conservatives. I always hated Dryden as I felt him to be arrogant. After hearing this.. I know loath him.

He used a CBA loophole he just never committed his real interest to the Ducks, but they messed up and should have moved him after seeing he wouldn't commit
- puckhead17

Doesn't that say a lot about his character/maturity that he wouldn't "commit" to the NHL team that drafted him? Most guys sign as soon as they get an offer. How well would he do in a overly critical market like Philadelphia?

All 3 D men still in the league
We just didn't keep them

Those forwards make a great top 9!
- puckhead17

those d are not that great.

Yeah, there still is a lot of hatred of the Flyers up here in Kanida.

Speaking of politics, a few years back Ken Dryen was running for political office (as a Liberal Member of Parliament). One of his speeches he was quoted as saying as an analogy, that the conservative (rival party) were like the Flyers. He said in 76, he and the Habs knew that they had to defeat this evil empire that had taken over and ruined the game with bullying tactics(paraphrase) and they did everythng to do so and succeeded. He was basically intimating that he was the man to defeat the conservatives. I always hated Dryden as I felt him to be arrogant. After hearing this.. I know loath him.
- Hextall271

Wow. Didn't hear him saying all that (having no parent and MacLeish gave them one hell of an edge as well)

Doesn't that say a lot about his character/maturity that he wouldn't "commit" to the NHL team that drafted him? Most guys sign as soon as they get an offer. How well would he do in a overly critical market like Philadelphia?
- NickTheKid87

True on those points

They did say the same about Lindros.

those d are not that great.
- flyersfan51

No
But they did draft a few and they weren't "ouellet" if you know what I mean.

It's an issue, but not a major one imo. They've got Bourdon and Gustafsson who are NHL-ready. Manning and Lauridsen are not far behind. Not likely to be a top-4 guy in the bunch, but you have these guys so you don't have to pay $3.5 million to a 3rd pairing defenseman or for depth/injury fill-in purposes.
- bradleyc4

when an org has a 2 decade + legacy of being unable to effectively draft / develop dmen and goalies something needs to change- drastically.

Wow. Didn't hear him saying all that (having no parent and MacLeish gave them one hell of an edge as well)
- puckhead17

I'll try to find the quote, but it was said when he was rnning for Liberal MP in the Toronto area I think. I wanted to throw my drink through the TV!

True on those points

They did say the same about Lindros.
- puckhead17

Lindros' parents played a huge role in his decision. Classic "stage" parents. Lindros' situation was also different though because he was heralded as the next coming of Gretzky. Schultz has a lot of upside but no one's going to mistake him for Bobby Orr.

Lindros' parents played a huge role in his decision. Classic "stage" parents. Lindros' situation was also different though because he was heralded as the next coming of Gretzky. Schultz has a lot of upside but no one's going to mistake him for Bobby Orr.
- NickTheKid87

Correct,
But I guess the loophole can be used by anyone

Unfortunately, looks like Shero won't ever get in. I really hope that Lindros gets in in the comng years, but I really think it's 50/50 at best.

One thing I will note is that if Sundin gets in so easily, then Lindros should make it. I know Sundin played many years in the centre of the hockey universe, but, like Lindros, Sundin never won a cup, Also never won a Hart trophy (Lindros did), and as far as I can remember, Sundin never played even in the SCF.

Lindros was a dominant force from I'd say 93-2000. He had crazy PPG and was the perfect meld of power and skill. He'd be absolutely unstoppable in todays no interference game (I look back at those playoffs in 97 for example againt the Rangers and he'd basically have people draped all over him without calls).

In short, if Mats gets in, Lindros should be a lock and it's kinda embarrassing that it seems Sundin gets in first most likely due to the fact that he played in TO.
- Hextall271

If Bure got in with his 779 points in 702 games (1.11 ppg) then Lindros has to get in with his 865 points in 760 games (1.14 ppg). Lindros was dominant when healthy. His PPg was 1.31 taking out his last 3 seasons when he was no longer the Eric we all loved to watch

for the hell of it, I went back about 20 drafts to see who the Flyers drafted in the first round:

Forwards: 8 couturier, 2 JVR, 22 Giroux, 29 Downie, 11 Carter, 24 Richards, 28 Williams, 22 Gagne, 15 Zubrus

Defense/goalies: 19 Sbisa, 4 Pitkanen, 27 Woywitka, 22 Ouellet, 22 Boucher
- nastyflyergirl

I think including the goalies distorts this a little. Also, Sbisa at this point is part of the Ducks foundation, so that was a very good pick. Pitkanen was a good player in the league for a long time, nad Woywitka was a serviceable 5-6.

At the end of the day they only drafted 3 D in last 15-20 years. So the above doesn't prove or disprove that they can draft good forwards but not good d.

Hearing the flyers are meeting with Jagr's agent today.....I only want Jagr at less than the price he received last year and I don't see Jagr wanting that. I'd sign Jagr to an incentive contract (which i believe doesn't count against the cap) with a base salary of like 1.75 or 2.
- flyersfan51

No such thing as money not counting against the Cap.

If Bure got in with his 779 points in 702 games (1.11 ppg) then Lindros has to get in with his 865 points in 760 games (1.14 ppg). Lindros was dominant when healthy. His PPg was 1.31 taking out his last 3 seasons when he was no longer the Eric we all loved to watch
- nastyflyergirl

Amen! I will be furious if he doesn't get in after Sundin does.

I think we need to stop bashing the team for taking the best player available over defense prospect needs. Drafting best player available has worked out pretty good for us, g and coots for example.
- twotoekenn

The issue is that once all of these young forwards start on their next contract, we'll have some cap issues. And I'm factoring in Briere, Hartnell etc being gone. Yeah, this is down the road. But you still have to plan for it. All professional teams try to mitigate this with cost-effective young talent. But you need to blend the young talent with vets as well, so you can't go young at forward and older at d forever.

So then maybe you trade a younger forward for a younger d, or a top line vet for younger d prospects. But top D are more valuable and teams are reluctant to give them up.

There's a reason that a number of teams are now trying to copy the Nashville model, and that everybody and their mother is after Schultz.

No such thing as money not counting against the Cap.
- MJL

oh....must have read something wrong.....my fault.

so what would you like homer to do with the current team?

A. Sign Carle
B. Trade for Ryan
C. Sign Parise.
- flyersfan51

A. Sign Carle
B. Sign a big defensive forward to play with Cooter. (allows Cooter to further access his offense while still primarily remaining our "shut down" center).
C. Sign a decent backup goalie who understands his role.
D. Let this group develop!!!!

Hearing the flyers are meeting with Jagr's agent today.....I only want Jagr at less than the price he received last year and I don't see Jagr wanting that. I'd sign Jagr to an incentive contract (which i believe doesn't count against the cap) with a base salary of like 1.75 or 2.
- flyersfan51

I don't think Jagr would except a contract like that. Incentives do count against the cap too.

Regardless, with the departure of JVR, I am much more open to bringing back Jagr for a year at $3m-$3.5m. Unless they acquire Ryan or Parise, which seems less likely at this point. With JVR here, Jagr didn't make sense but now I think he does. There's no such thing as a bad one year deal.

A. Sign Carle
B. Sign a big defensive forward to play with Cooter. (allows Cooter to further access his offense while still primarily remaining our "shut down" center).
C. Sign a decent backup goalie who understands his role.
D. Let this group develop!!!!
- MBFlyerfan

I like it..

I don't think Jagr would except a contract like that. Incentives do count against the cap too.

Regardless, with the departure of JVR, I am much more open to bringing back Jagr for a year at $3m-$3.5m. Unless they acquire Ryan or Parise, which seems less likely at this point. With JVR here, Jagr didn't make sense but now I think he does. There's no such thing as a bad one year deal.
- NickTheKid87

why is that?

why is that?
- flyersfan51

I think the Ducks are asking too much for Ryan and Homer won't budge. Flyers don't NEED him so I doubt they will offer more than what they believe he is worth.

Parise seems to want to be the go-to guy wherever he goes which would effectively rule out Philly. Also, it might be tight getting him signed within the cap.

I think the Ducks are asking too much for Ryan and Homer won't budge. Flyers don't NEED him so I doubt they will offer more than what they believe he is worth.

Parise seems to want to be the go-to guy wherever he goes which would effectively rule out Philly. Also, it might be tight getting him signed within the cap.
- NickTheKid87

I agree on both points -- I have a feeling anaheim will come down with their demands....or at least that's what I'm hoping for.

I agree on both points -- I have a feeling anaheim will come down with their demands....or at least that's what I'm hoping for.
- flyersfan51

That's really the only way I can see the Flyers getting him. Maybe Toronto will overpay for him instead. Wouldn't be the first time Burke overpaid for a player...

Stay the course

Jagr coming back for a second year is not a bad thing

A. Sign Carle
B. Sign a big defensive forward to play with Cooter. (allows Cooter to further access his offense while still primarily remaining our "shut down" center).
C. Sign a decent backup goalie who understands his role.
D. Let this group develop!!!!
- MBFlyerfan

I'd be happy with that result. However I think Holmgren is going to try and do something. I have no idea what.