I agree totally but it's still a line that deserves very limited minutes.

I just can't help but look at that depth of forwards and be disappointed.
- Schenn2shine

I tend to agree with you

If Carle signs what are the pairings on D. Please list the offensive, puck moving Dman first. I'd say:

Timonen/coburn
Carle/Schenn
Mezzaros/Grossman

Does that make sense?
- jstross

If Laviolette breaks up the Grossmann-Coburn tandem he's lost his marbles....

I agree totally but it's still a line that deserves very limited minutes.

I just can't help but look at that depth of forwards and be disappointed.
- Schenn2shine

I agree, limit the minutes. But we should still have good enough offense. But only time will tell what homers plans are

I'm not implying this but do you think the system breeds defensive neglect?
- JoeRussomanno

No, I don't think it does.

- really? trading a 25-6 yr old guy for a 24 and a 21 yr old is comparable to what we did w/ pronger?


Yes, trading for a missing piece is comparable. I've read you and others say that Richards and Carter weren't keys to LA winning the Cup. Now they are?

- I don't call an opinion that I formed 3-4 yrs ago and have had confirmed repeatedly being reactionary. that's simply laughable.

- now you're generalizing about a study of the obvious.

it is clear that the flyers are reactionary in the basic core of their philosophy and that they have deficits that have lasted for decades. I think an org approach like that of some of the cup teams that I mentioned earlier would give us a better chance of actually winning a one and I'll feel that way until they prove me wrong...call it a win/win situation.

what's also clear is my point is so well taken and your replies so ineffectual, that I think you should call it a night...so good night.
- isaiah520

Yes, trading for a missing piece is comparable. And the Pronger move defines the Flyers philosophy, which you say, doesn't exist. I've read you and others say that Richards and Carter weren't keys to LA winning the Cup. Now they are? And yes, you are being reactionary. To every move that is made, based on the end results. You don't like who they drafted. You don't like who they traded for.

Not every team is fortunate enough to draft Brodeur in goal, or a Lidstrom on defense. So they can have a top Goalie, and a top defenseman year after year. Some teams have to make moves. It's not easy to get a #1 Goalie that can play for you for a decade. Or a top defenseman.

The Flyers had a core of Richards and Carter and kept it together for how many years, and built around it. And they added to it, by getting a top defenseman in Pronger, and making other moves. Coming off a last overall finish in the NHL, they became a playoff team, went to a Conference Final, and eventually an appearance in the Cup Final. All on the moves that Holmgren made. Then they made one, not many as you stated. But one radical change. And now the core is built around Giroux. And unless they're trading Giroux, Or Couturier. I don't see how they are making a radical change in trading JVR. They got a 22 year old player in return.

If my statement that all teams make mistakes is a study of the obvious to you, then why is that you don't give Holmgren any slack whatsoever for the ones he makes? Or understand how th NHL works? And you label pretty much every move a mistake. Based on what? Based on whether they won the Cup or not. That is reactionary. You label the JVR trade a bad trade, when it obviously isn't a bad trade.

Just because you can't identify the Flyers philosophy, which certainly exists, or don't agree with it, doesn't make them reactionary overall. Every team to a certain extent makes moves to counter a top opponent. When you get beat, you try and identify the reason for it, and look to rectify it. That's part of the game

As far as your last comment, no need for me to address that.

I'll close out with this:

I hate the fuc&ing devils more than anything, but do you see them switch gears, philosophy, or strategy? No, Lou the GM is pretty much the same, sticks to the same blueprint no matter what, even when they have a bad year or 2.
- puckhead17

Absolutely they do. The Devils were a trapping defensive first team under Lemaire for years. Even when they brought him back. Now they've added a player like Kovalchuk, and are an aggressive forechecking team under Doboer.

Manayunk Mike now thinks Ducks will test FA first for a d-man before pulling trigger on a Ryan deal.

Absolutely they do. The Devils were a trapping defensive first team under Lemaire for years. Even when they brought him back. Now they've added a player like Kovalchuk, and are an aggressive forechecking team under Doboer.
- MJL

Spot-on.

The Devils are an offensive team now. They are relentless back-checkers under Deboer, but definitely not a trap team anymore.

If Laviolette breaks up the Grossmann-Coburn tandem he's lost his marbles....
- Giroux_Is_God

He won't.

I'd like to see:

Mesz-Carle
Coby-Grossman
Schenn-Kimmo

Manayunk Mike now thinks Ducks will test FA first for a d-man before pulling trigger on a Ryan deal.
- LordStanley88

good luck getting anyone under 5 million.

He won't.

I'd like to see:

Mesz-Carle
Coby-Grossman
Schenn-Kimmo
- LordStanley88

Kimmo on third pair?

Grossmann - Coburn
Timonen - Carle
Meszaros - Schenn

good luck getting anyone under 5 million.
- flyersfan51

There's only two UFA defenseman worth 5M. That's Suter and Carle.

There's only two UFA defenseman worth 5M. That's Suter and Carle.
- MJL

- Mr.Forsberg

Carle would easily get $5m on the UFA market.

Oh, and welcome to hockeybuzz new username Mr.Forsberg.

Kimmo on third pair?

Grossmann - Coburn
Timonen - Carle
Meszaros - Schenn
- flyersfan51

It was already confirmed earlier this season when Walker made the team out of camp but didn't start the season due to injury that Meszaros doesn't feel comfortable on the right side. So with Walker being out and Meszaros not being able to play the right side, things were switched up to keep Meszaros on the right side. The point is that Schenn plays the right and so does Meszaros, so it's unlikely they will be paired together. I think we're looking at.

Timonen-Coburn
Grossmann-Meszaros
Carle-Schenn

or...

Grossmann-Coburn
Carle-Meszaros
Timonen-Schenn

It might not be such a bad thing to have Timonen in a third pair role at times. Also, you want Grossmann with a solid puck mover at all times.

Carle would easily get $5m on the UFA market.

- BulliesPhan87

Agreed, given the Wideman signing.

Carle would easily get $5m on the UFA market.

Oh, and welcome to hockeybuzz new username Mr.Forsberg.
- BulliesPhan87

Let the education begin.

Agreed, given the Wideman signing.
- Scoob

Exactly!

Never been a real fan of any Devil but I must say that so far I'm respecting Zach Parise because it's looking like he's not going to put on the same show Brad Richards did last season, only to sign where everyone knew where he was going to end up. I'm surprised he never got real criticism for that.

Manayunk Mike now thinks Ducks will test FA first for a d-man before pulling trigger on a Ryan deal.
- LordStanley88

Even better cause we won't have to give one up.

Let the education begin.
- MBFlyerfan

You will submit your homework before class. No assignments will be accepted after the starting bell.

Never been a real fan of any Devil but I must say that so far I'm respecting Zach Parise because it's looking like he's not going to put on the same show Brad Richards did last season, only to sign where everyone knew where he was going to end up. I'm surprised he never got real criticism for that.
- Schenn2shine

What show did Richards put on?

What show did Richards put on?
- MJL

Here we go.

It was already confirmed earlier this season when Walker made the team out of camp but didn't start the season due to injury that Meszaros doesn't feel comfortable on the right side. So with Walker being out and Meszaros not being able to play the right side, things were switched up to keep Meszaros on the right side. The point is that Schenn plays the right and so does Meszaros, so it's unlikely they will be paired together. I think we're looking at.

Timonen-Coburn
Grossmann-Meszaros
Carle-Schenn

or...

Grossmann-Coburn
Carle-Meszaros
Timonen-Schenn

It might not be such a bad thing to have Timonen in a third pair role at times. Also, you want Grossmann with a solid puck mover at all times.
- Schenn2shine

Good point. Have to consider who will play what side when putting a pairing together.

Manayunk Mike now thinks Ducks will test FA first for a d-man before pulling trigger on a Ryan deal.
- LordStanley88

Lol with wideman getting 5.25 mil, i think htey coem back running with their tails in between their legs + who the hell wants to goto anaheim lol.