I don't know. I can speculate just as you did. But I can't know that Holmgren could've traded Gagne for Meszaros. You may think you know. But I don't know if he could've.
- MJL

Sure I can know. I know there was plenty of time to explore a deal.

Sunday will have some answers.

Sure I can know. I know there was plenty of time to explore a deal.
- Schenn2shine

Deals can be explored. That doesn't mean a deal can be done. None of us have any way of knowing if Yzerman would've been willing to take Gagne for Meszaros.

I know. The Meszaros deal was made before Noon on July 1st 2010. Obviously Tampa had some interest in Gagne seeing how he ended up there. Gagne was a making only making a million more then Meszaros and Gagne was probably at the time considered to be the better player, seeing how Gagne just came off a clutch Stanley Cup Final and Meszaros an off season to his standards. Would you say the Meszaros deal was made quickly before other opinions could have been exploded by Free Agency? If not, why not?

EDIT

It was already rumored Gagne would be moved but he wasn't moved right away. So why the rush for Meszaros if a straight up trade was impossible?
- Schenn2shine

Meszaros was a better defenseman than the free agent options. Two of the better guys that year were what, Paul Martin and Zybnek Michalek? One's already been dumped and Pitt would love to get rid of the other. One could argue that if Holmgren had waited, other teams who lost out on free agency D men would have driven up Meszaros' price, who in the end, was the right player to get.

As a big JVR supporter, I think we really do have to be patient (uncharacteristic for this board but I've been called things like hopless romantic before) with this trade. We are basing it on each players potential and when it comes to that even scouts make mistakes. Besides if both player turn out to be really good players then it was a win/win for both teams as the Flyers needed d-help and the Leafs needed firepower.

Deals can be explored. That doesn't mean a deal can be done. None of us have any way of knowing if Yzerman would've been willing to take Gagne for Meszaros.
- MJL

Was it explored? If not, why not? Again I ask, why make a deal for a player before UFA opens? Why ask a player you plan on moving for a list of teams after July 1st? Was the deal not explored because Gagne was dealt with days too late?

As a big JVR supporter, I think we really do have to be patient (uncharacteristic for this board but I've been called things like hopless romantic before) with this trade. We are basing it on each players potential and when it comes to that even scouts make mistakes. Besides if both player turn out to be really good players then it was a win/win for both teams as the Flyers needed d-help and the Leafs needed firepower.
- JoeRussomanno

As always, a voice of reason!

Was it explored? If not, why not? Again I ask, why make a deal for a player before UFA opens? Why ask a player you plan on moving for a list of teams after July 1st? Was the deal not explored because Gagne was dealt with days too late?
- Schenn2shine

I have no idea if it was explored. All I know is what did happen.

Meszaros was a better defenseman than the free agent options. Two of the better guys that year were what, Paul Martin and Zybnek Michalek? One's already been dumped and Pitt would love to get rid of the other. One could argue that if Holmgren had waited, other teams who lost out on free agency D men would have driven up Meszaros' price, who in the end, was the right player to get.
- eayost

Exactly. However, we had under contract a well respected skilled player who we already planned to move.

As a big JVR supporter, I think we really do have to be patient (uncharacteristic for this board but I've been called things like hopless romantic before) with this trade. We are basing it on each players potential and when it comes to that even scouts make mistakes. Besides if both player turn out to be really good players then it was a win/win for both teams as the Flyers needed d-help and the Leafs needed firepower.
- JoeRussomanno

I think both players will be good for their team.

I think both players will be good for their team.
- stveshdy

Time will tell and i really do hope for that to be the case.

Exactly. However, we had under contract a well respected skilled player who we already planned to move.
- Schenn2shine

You don't know if the Flyers had planned on moving Gagne before they obtained Meszaros.

Were going to find out. Schenn was a top defenseman playing over 22 minutes a game for the Leafs in 10/11 as a 21 year old player.
- MJL

It seems the masses always demand young defensemen to be acquired but are always the first to raise eyebrows once Homer pulls it off. Yes Schenn has had an Inconsistent career, that's a major factor why he was available for a forward who has been equally inconsistent. This shouldnt change the fact that he is still capable of being a player capable of helping solidify the Flyers blue line for years to come.

When Meszaros was Acquired many second guessed his conrtact, what Homer gave up for him and how he was a bad player on a bad team(sound familiar?). Carle was just a "journeyman to be" when homer swung a deal for him which may have saved the Flyers season. History continues to repeat itself and will continue to until people realise that young defensemen at the top of thier game do not become available in fair hockey trades. Opportunities need to be seized, risks need to be taken and Homer's track record in that regard is top notch IMO.

You don't know if the Flyers had planned on moving Gagne before they obtained Meszaros.
- MJL

How didn't I know?

It seems the masses always demand young defensemen to be acquired but are always the first to raise eyebrows once Homer pulls it off. Yes Schenn has had an Inconsistent career, that's a major factor why he was available for a forward who has been equally inconsistent. This shouldnt change the fact that he is still capable of being a player capable of helping solidify the Flyers blue line for years to come.

When Meszaros was Acquired many second guessed his conrtact, what Homer gave up for him and how he was a bad player on a bad team(sound familiar?). Carle was just a "journeyman to be" when homer swung a deal for him which may have saved the Flyers season. History continues to repeat itself and will continue to until people realise that young defensemen at the top of thier game do not become available in fair hockey trades. Opportunities need to be seized, risks need to be taken and Homer's track record in that regard is top notch IMO.
- Baxter27

I would not take on that endeavor. I think it is a task that is not possible to complete. Well said.

Time will tell and i really do hope for that to be the case.
- JoeRussomanno

This defense looks good this year.

Imagine the next year.

Weber-Carle
Mez-Schenn
Grossman-Coburn

This defense looks good this year.

Imagine the next year.

Weber-Carle
Mez-Schenn
Grossman-Coburn
- stveshdy

I thought we traded mez for Ryan!!

BTw I would likely do Bourdon and Jake for him k? can we still be Hockeybuzz pals?

It seems the masses always demand young defensemen to be acquired but are always the first to raise eyebrows once Homer pulls it off. Yes Schenn has had an Inconsistent career, that's a major factor why he was available for a forward who has been equally inconsistent. This shouldnt change the fact that he is still capable of being a player capable of helping solidify the Flyers blue line for years to come.

When Meszaros was Acquired many second guessed his conrtact, what Homer gave up for him and how he was a bad player on a bad team(sound familiar?). Carle was just a "journeyman to be" when homer swung a deal for him which may have saved the Flyers season. History continues to repeat itself and will continue to until people realise that young defensemen at the top of thier game do not become available in fair hockey trades. Opportunities need to be seized, risks need to be taken and Homer's track record in that regard is top notch IMO.
- Baxter27

+1

How didn't I know?
- Schenn2shine

How did you know? Perhaps to speculate that after trading for Meszaros to shore up the defense, the Flyers needing to make a Cap move, then decided to trade Gagne after they acquired Meszaros. It fits the timeline.

And the philosophy they are currently using could also put them in a position to win a Cup. Trading one player, isn't changing philosophies.
- MJL

remind me I lost track...let me see...
after Clarke, it was only trade youth for youth, kimmo, Danny and harts are brought in to nurture a young core of richie , carter, lupul and upshall, et al.

then it was go again w/ the cheap goalie cause we need that #1 dman - pronger- and we trade a boatload of young assets and F' up an over 35 deal for him. let's just say they got caught w/ the hanrahan in their pockets.

then, we have to get THE goalie, and also get "younger, bigger (not really, but...), faster, stronger....don't know if we are better, but we are different"

we went into the season w/ ?s on d, but they weren't really addressed until around the TDL. the goalie was a head case who was either wretched - most of the time- or Bernie-like.

so what are we now? the only consistency is the high wire act every yr w/ the cap situation which has already cost us picks/players. we will always compete because we usually make decent trades, draft forwards well and are willing to spend. but looking at the last several cup winners - LA, PIT, BOS, CHI and DET- they all seem to have more of an org commitment to a plan and in doing so, more of a chance to win a cup.

*you can laugh at the example of CHI, but at least talon hung on to these guys on ELCs long enuf to cross the finish line. what bowman did from there is on him.

I thought we traded mez for Ryan!!

BTw I would likely do Bourdon and Jake for him k? can we still be Hockeybuzz pals?
- JoeRussomanno

We are hockeybuzz pals. We dont always have to agree on everything.

If I could deal Voracek and Bourdon for Ryan, I would do it.

As always, a voice of reason!
- MJL

Never been a real jvr fan. I've never forgotten his reaction to john tavares' tying goal at the 09 wjc. Skated back to the bench and looked so scared.

How did you know? Perhaps to speculate that after trading for Meszaros to shore up the defense, the Flyers needing to make a Cap move, then decided to trade Gagne after they acquired Meszaros. It fits the timeline.
- MJL

It was widely speculated days before July 1st 2010 to make a deal like they did for Meszaros to free up space. Th freeing up space was coming no matter what and Gagne was the most likely to move.

We are hockeybuzz pals. We dont always have to agree on everything.

If I could deal Voracek and Bourdon for Ryan, I would do it.
- stveshdy

I backread as in I already knew that.