Yes really. He was 100% considered an untouchable player prior to struggling last season.

Clearly something is up with JvR that his value is not what everyone in here expected it to be. The fact that Schenn was the return for him AND it was rumored that the Ducks wanted JvR and Schenn/Couturier for Ryan.

JvR's value was not anything close to what you guys think it was. I am willing to bet the 6 year deal he has with a lot of question marks about him had something to do with it.
- Flyers2821

clearly you didn't listen to the fan 590 or XM radio or you wouldnt claim that schenn was held in such high regard. fact is, they were looking to move him for the last 2 yrs.

not really. he's had his struggles and it's clear that he is not an offensive threat or anything like a Scott Stevens that people thought was possible. that was unfair of course.

he's a "nice player" , but we needed more that him coming back. pwr forwards often take time and this move could haunt the flyers much like the leclair move burned MTL. more to the point, we still need a puck mover and a key asset is gone for far less than max value.
- isaiah520

D-men take time too. i think this should be one of those good for both team deals. Unless he turns into a Dykhuis? Big, fast, and dumb.

Your trying to tell me the back end was not lacking physicality? It absolutely has. It has been missing the physical crease clearing play of Chris Pronger tremendously.
- Flyers2821

that's why we brought in grossmanN and kubina. the latter is gone, but mezzy should be healthy and he's plenty physical. our mix and the future dictate that we need a puck mover and dynamic offensive force from the blue line. and matt carle is not a slam dunk to be back even though it looks encouraging.

edit: hope LEED is right...

jvr has done nothing, hes all sizzle and no steak...if he was picked 20th overall there wouldnt be any sizzle.
- mydoglicks

I find it odd that you and a few others are so willing to just write off Luke Schenn's bad season as the "sophomore slump", and seem so certain that he will be a future stud, while at the same time completely dismissing JVR's entire body of work with the Flyers as garbage, and are saying he sucked. You don't have to look very far to find out that's complete crap. This is from the TSN article describing the trade.

"Van Riemsdyk shared the Flyers' team lead with seven goals in 11 playoff games in 2011 after earning career highs in goals (21), points (40) and a plus-15 in 75 games during the regular season."

That's hardly doing nothing, and hardly lacking "steak" as you put it. And he was off to an even better year this year before injuries derailed him. So JVR gets trashed for his down year despite it being caused by obvious injuries, and Schenn gets a pass on his bad year even though he was perfectly healthy all year and just played poorly.

Makes perfect sense.

I think this trade clearly shows Coots and Schenn are basically untouchable. Apparently, Weber isn't available, yet again I was way off base.

I do think the organization will put the full court press on for Parise. I'm very sure Carle will be resigned, it is a lot of money on the backline for 1 yr since this is Kimmo's last year on his contract. Even if he doesn't retire after the year, I highly doubt they bring him back at $6.3 million.

D-men take time too. i think this should be one of those good for both team deals. Unless he turns into a Dykhuis? Big, fast, and dumb.
- fnmjoe13

true enuf, but JVR has the higher upside and against BOS in the plyoffs, he showed more than anything we've seen from schenn.

D-men take time too. i think this should be one of those good for both team deals. Unless he turns into a Dykhuis? Big, fast, and dumb.
- fnmjoe13

or a Ryan McGill for us seasoned vets.

Laught
- Crimsoninja

the new leight? see what you did there...

I find it odd that you and a few others are so willing to just write off Luke Schenn's bad season as the "sophomore slump", and seem so certain that he will be a future stud, while at the same time completely dismissing JVR's entire body of work with the Flyers as garbage, and are saying he sucked. You don't have to look very far to find out that's complete crap. This is from the TSN article describing the trade.

"Van Riemsdyk shared the Flyers' team lead with seven goals in 11 playoff games in 2011 after earning career highs in goals (21), points (40) and a plus-15 in 75 games during the regular season."

That's hardly doing nothing, and hardly lacking "steak" as you put it. And he was off to an even better year this year before injuries derailed him. So JVR gets trashed for his down year despite it being caused by obvious injuries, and Schenn gets a pass on his bad year even though he was perfectly healthy all year and just played poorly.

Makes perfect sense.

- BringBack25

amen. I like schenn, but not for JVR straight up.

we don't have the assets to trade for Ryan or anybody significant unless we want to part w/ couts or schenn...as much as anything, that's why the JVR trade hurts.
- isaiah520

Why don't we have the assets? What if we traded Voracek and Meszaros for Ryan? I thought it was strange that the Flyers added Schenn after the signing of Grossmann. I think it's strange that someone called Schenn a "Puck mover" on this board. He's more of a strong stay at home type. You might get some points out of him (More then Grossmann) but you'll get less points from Luke then let's say Timonen, Carle and Meszaros. I would say Luke Schenn is the same type of player as Coburn.

amen. I like schenn, but not for JVR straight up.
- isaiah520

I agree. We should have got at least a prospect in the deal.

I find it odd that you and a few others are so willing to just write off Luke Schenn's bad season as the "sophomore slump", and seem so certain that he will be a future stud, while at the same time completely dismissing JVR's entire body of work with the Flyers as garbage, and are saying he sucked. You don't have to look very far to find out that's complete crap. This is from the TSN article describing the trade.

"Van Riemsdyk shared the Flyers' team lead with seven goals in 11 playoff games in 2011 after earning career highs in goals (21), points (40) and a plus-15 in 75 games during the regular season."

That's hardly doing nothing, and hardly lacking "steak" as you put it. And he was off to an even better year this year before injuries derailed him. So JVR gets trashed for his down year despite it being caused by obvious injuries, and Schenn gets a pass on his bad year even though he was perfectly healthy all year and just played poorly.

Makes perfect sense.

- BringBack25

I think it's obvious the Flyers have always had interest in Luke Schenn but JvR for Luke isn't worth it. We had the better player. JvR could end up being the next John LeClair and we gave him away to Brayden could play with his big brother. I think we have to go after a skilled forward now.

Why don't we have the assets? What if we traded Voracek and Meszaros for Ryan? I thought it was strange that the Flyers added Schenn after the signing of Grossmann. I think it's strange that someone called Schenn a "Puck mover" on this board. He's more of a strong stay at home type. You might get some points out of him (More then Grossmann) but you'll get less points from Luke then let's say Timonen, Carle and Meszaros. I would say Luke Schenn is the same type of player as Coburn.
- Schenn2shine

he doesn't skate anywhere near as well as coby, But he is >avg for a stay-at-home guy.

I don't think mezzy and jake get you Ryan and how much can we gut our forward ranks anyway?

And he was off to an even better year this year before injuries derailed him.

Makes perfect sense.

- BringBack25

not really. If you go back and look at his game-to-game stats, there are several times when he has 2 or 3 good games, and then 4-6 games where he does nothing offensively, and is a minus player. And I'm talking about before his injuries.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/tea.../players/gamelog/?id=6041

he doesn't skate anywhere near as well as coby, But he is >avg for a stay-at-home guy.

I don't think mezzy and jake get you Ryan and how much can we gut our forward ranks anyway?
- isaiah520

What gets you Bobby Ryan? All this talk of trading Nash and Ryan but what do you give up for them? Might as well trade the 2 for each other. I wasn't expecting the Pens to get what they did for Jordan Staal.

Grossmann-Coburn
Timonen-Schenn
Carle-Meszaros
Lilja

??

Timonen-Coburn
Carle-Schenn
Grossmann-Meszaros
Lilja

??

amen. I like schenn, but not for JVR straight up.
- isaiah520

I like Schenn too. And over time it may even turn out to be a fair trade if Schenn improves the way many d-men do with their second team.

But right now, today, the Leafs got the better player. They got the player who, while not fully reaching what folks expect from a #2 overall pick, has actually proven he can play at a high level when healthy and can score big goals in big games.

Schenn, perhaps as much due to the team he played on as much as his own issues, has shown nothing of the sort thus far in his short career. I'm not saying he never will, or that he's not a good player. I am saying that if you compare what JVR has accomplished as a #2 pick, with what Schenn has accomplished as a #5, it's pretty clear Schenn has been the bigger underachiever thus far.

In his favor, he's still only 22, and d-men do take longer to develop than forwards. Best we can hope for is that Schenn does improve a la Coburn and becomes a solid top 4 d-man who can play in any situation. If that does happen, then it will likely have been a good deal for both teams.

Dustin Leed Dustin Leed ‏@D_LEED

Matt Carle not going anywhere. Will likely finish deal in days and be announced on July 1. Holmgren wants him, Carle wants to stay. #Flyers



Ok nevermind haha
- aosplayo

So they may trade a d man if they sign Carle. Well Coburn and Grossmann recently signed extensions so I'd be a bit nervous if I were them.

JVR is damged goods at the moment. This is what you get in return for damaged goods. Obviously the player and management didn't agree on his needing surgery at this point. Bye bye player. No other reason to trade away a recent No. 1 pick who showed as much promise as others on here have chimed in with.

Grossmann-Coburn
Timonen-Schenn
Carle-Meszaros
Lilja

??

Timonen-Coburn
Carle-Schenn
Grossmann-Meszaros
Lilja

??
- Schenn2shine

Grossmann-Coburn
Meszaros/Carle-Schenn
Timmonen-Carle/Meszaros

If they do keep Carle, I could see one of them sliding up and down throughout a game/year to keep Kimmo's minutes down.

This is a bigger move than I expected. I didn't expect major changes. And while some may think this isn't major, it is more than minor.

Don't like the trade. Not at all.

Little did I know that all brothers have to play together now

JVR will be a stud someday.

Life goes on.

This is a bigger move than I expected. I didn't expect major changes. And while some may think this isn't major, it is more than minor.

Don't like the trade. Not at all.

Little did I know that all brothers have to play together now

JVR will be a stud someday.

Life goes on.
- Daman

Or he could have reoccurring hip problems or other nagging injuries for the rest of his career.

Or he could have reoccurring hip problems or other nagging injuries for the rest of his career.
- rockychocbill

especially if he keeps insisting he doesn't need/want to have surgery on it.
That still really sets off red flags to me.

not really. If you go back and look at his game-to-game stats, there are several times when he has 2 or 3 good games, and then 4-6 games where he does nothing offensively, and is a minus player. And I'm talking about before his injuries.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/tea.../players/gamelog/?id=6041
- the deaninator

He was on pace for around 40 goals before he was hurt. Was he streaky? Yes, but the numbers are what they are. If he had played the full season the same way he did the first part (streaks and all) he would have finished with around 40 goals.

I don't really see how anyone can dispute that JVR isn't a better player than Luck Schenn right now. But the important thing is, will that still be true two or three years from now. If it is, then we lost the deal. If it isn't, then it was a fair trade.

He was on pace for around 40 goals before he was hurt. Was he streaky? Yes, but the numbers are what they are. If he had played the full season the same way he did the first part (streaks and all) he would have finished with around 40 goals.

I don't really see how anyone can dispute that JVR isn't a better player than Luck Schenn right now. But the important thing is, will that still be true two or three years from now. If it is, then we lost the deal. If it isn't, then it was a fair trade.
- BringBack25

It's Homer's way or the highway. Any player who wants to frank with that will be shown the door.

How long now until Lupul and JVR hoist the Cup?