I dont just believe the Leafs, I believe the 6 other teams that passed over them as well.
- cor99

Real winners.. picking smallish defensemen.. all but Dumba and Trouba were big hitters.. not sure if you have noticed.. most of those players that could hand in jrs can't do the same when you put bigger, faster, stronger players in front of them.. very few of those players will see 200 games. That is fact...

Dumba is too small to play his game in the NHL.. Trouba is 185.. but tall.. suppose he could grow..

I saw a bunch of scouts circle jerking because they were afraid of Forsberg & Grigoranko not committing to NHL versus their home leagues.

Forsberg said for definite he wouldn't come this year.

Pierre LeBrun ‏@Real_ESPNLeBrun

Pitt has dealt Z. Michalek to Phx in exchange for prospect Harrison Ruopp plus a 3rd-round pick this year (81st) and goalie Marc Cheverie.

You honestly think that Forsberg has elite status? Grigorenko maaaayyyybe but that's a huge risk. Reilly hass elite potential. Doesn't matter he's a defensemen. Would you be pissed if we acquired Letang? We don't need him, but poop did our trading posture just get a lot stronger. Anaheim loses Schultz. We can trade them some nice blue liners for Getz or Ryan. Our blue line is now

Phaneuf
Schenn
Liles
Franson
Komisarek
Gardiner
Gunnarsson
Reilly
Holzer
Blacker
Percy
with the potential of Schultz.

Sweet Jesus that's good blueline

How is this a bad thing? Faksa would be great to have, Forsberg will probably be just the same as a big 3rd liner. And Grigs could be a 1C or lifer in the KHL.
- Boosinicka

i never said he was elite, i said he would've given the franchise the best chance to land some high end offensive talent in years.. do you understand?

we're both assuming. my assumption relies on the team simply selecting someone. you're assumption relies on other franchises finding the same value in those blueliners you listed, and hoping they fetch someone who happens to turn out better than forsberg, grigorenko, faksa, even teravainen..

.. not that i would've promoted selecting the later two at #5, but it would've qualified as just cause to trade down. calgary still picked in the 1st, and gained a 2nd rounder for #14. i imagine #5 could've landed a pick to select faksa.. a 2nd.. and another quality asset.

but cool, take the best player available. validate validate validate.

No you dont draft by needs at the draft. All the experts, all the scouts say you take the best player available, and that was a defenseman.

If you drafted by needs then Oilers would have taken Murray
- cor99

the draft is based on unpredictably.

there's no set standard. it's like suggesting the only way to win championships is through signing stud free agents.

the draft is all about making impact clutch decisions on the fly that affect your franchise for years, not following some dumbass rule that you claim has been spewed by all the experts.

Best player available was Forsberg or Grigorenko.. no other choices for the Leafs.. at that point..
- DoctorNHL

Plenty of choices, and better ones at that. Grigs could prove us wrong, but Burke doesn't draft from the Q or Russians. And I won't fault him for that at all.

Speaking of Eberle, you may want to tell them they (frank)ed up getting Yakupov too b/c they got Eberle already, and they have Hall.
- Boosinicka

oooooh, so you found the "it's sustainable to pass on franchise caliber players to address franchise needs" in the offical NHL draft for dummies book, did you?

high 5. must take a lot of reading to get to that point.

That's not really a fair argument. 22 teams passed on Giroux and 14 passed on Karlsson. And I'm sure you wouldn't say they're all wrong.
- JamieS

Now is that a fair argument you know how many great players came in later rounds like Kaberle, Zettergurg etc..

I think most pro scouts get personally involved.. and half of them.. have friends that got them to where they are.. because if you graded half of these scouts on predictions.. they would be failures.

Not saying that the Leaf development program will help.. but I am talking league wide.

Perceptions are made by little men that hurt better men.

Well next year looks better for forwards really. Not winnin for Mackinnon?
- JamieS

It is "No Winnin for McKinnon" although I prefer "Skate for Nate".

That's not really a fair argument. 22 teams passed on Giroux and 14 passed on Karlsson. And I'm sure you wouldn't say they're all wrong.
- JamieS

same statement could be applied to the forsberg dropping to 11th argument, pretty quick.

You honestly think that Forsberg has elite status? Grigorenko maaaayyyybe but that's a huge risk. Reilly hass elite potential. Doesn't matter he's a defensemen. Would you be pissed if we acquired Letang? We don't need him, but poop did our trading posture just get a lot stronger. Anaheim loses Schultz. We can trade them some nice blue liners for Getz or Ryan. Our blue line is now

Phaneuf
Schenn
Liles
Franson
Komisarek
Gardiner
Gunnarsson
Reilly
Holzer
Blacker
Percy
with the potential of Schultz.

Sweet Jesus that's good blueline

How is this a bad thing? Faksa would be great to have, Forsberg will probably be just the same as a big 3rd liner. And Grigs could be a 1C or lifer in the KHL.
- Boosinicka

I will go on record stating that Forsberg will achieve better results than Reilly...

Apparently plenty of NHL scouts were.......
- cor99

Somehow plenty of those same scouts allowed Couturier to slip to like 10 or 11 last year also.

i never said he was elite, i said he would've given the franchise the best chance to land some high end offensive talent in years.. do you understand?

we're both assuming. my assumption relies on the team simply selecting someone. you're assumption relies on other franchises finding the same value in those blueliners you listed, and hoping they fetch someone who happens to turn out better than forsberg, grigorenko, faksa, even teravainen..

.. not that i would've promoted selecting the later two at #5, but it would've qualified as just cause to trade down. calgary still picked in the 1st, and gained a 2nd rounder for #14. i imagine #5 could've landed a pick to select faksa.. a 2nd.. and another quality asset.

but cool, take the best player available. validate validate validate.
- joel878

I don't understand that statement actually. Do you understand that Reilly has the potential to make our forwards better? This team better? Forsberg needs a better player beside him to obtain to much. He's a lot like Nash, all goals, no playmaking.

You honestly think that Forsberg has elite status? Grigorenko maaaayyyybe but that's a huge risk. Reilly hass elite potential. Doesn't matter he's a defensemen. Would you be pissed if we acquired Letang? We don't need him, but poop did our trading posture just get a lot stronger. Anaheim loses Schultz. We can trade them some nice blue liners for Getz or Ryan. Our blue line is now

Phaneuf
Schenn
Liles
Franson
Komisarek
Gardiner
Gunnarsson
Reilly
Holzer
Blacker
Percy
with the potential of Schultz.

Sweet Jesus that's good blueline

How is this a bad thing? Faksa would be great to have, Forsberg will probably be just the same as a big 3rd liner. And Grigs could be a 1C or lifer in the KHL.
- Boosinicka

Also tell me which one of those actually can defend... because the majority of those are career minuses.. and one of the worst defenses ever assembled.

Not talking about the ones who aren't here I hope the best for them.. but the ones you listed on the Leafs.. are lousy defensemen. ALL OF THEM bar Gunnar who actually can play in his own end.

You believe Leaf scouts... they got Schenn & Kadri right...
- DoctorNHL

Go look up the players drafted directly after Schenn and Kadri.

I have been a Leaf fan since 1975... I have a right to disagree with the direction of the team.

Do you have debates "all the team?"
- DoctorNHL

You'll find that if you criticize the Leafs in here, you'll get mobbed by Burke apologists.

I don't understand that statement actually. Do you understand that Reilly has the potential to make our forwards better? This team better? Forsberg needs a better player beside him to obtain to much. He's a lot like Nash, all goals, no playmaking.
- Boosinicka

you picked that up from forsberg during your time in europe did you?

face it, your ballsy baseless prediction is just as out there as mine.. it's all guesswork.

i'm just standing on the side that thinks drafting a high end forward was better for the team in the long run..

so if the leafs pick 2nd next year, miss out on mackinnon, and draft a blueline 2nd, instead of the next stud forward.. it's all good? because we can validate it different ways? can never have enough defenseman, especially when at this rate, you'll need them to play on the third line in years to come.

oooooh, so you found the "it's sustainable to pass on franchise caliber players to address franchise needs" in the offical NHL draft for dummies book, did you?

high 5. must take a lot of reading to get to that point.
- joel878

Yeahhhh but franchise caliber defensmen are to be passed for likely 3rd liners.

I dont just believe the Leafs, I believe the 6 other teams that passed over them as well.
- cor99

Besides the first few picks.. say top 3.. who have almost no choice but to get it right.. the others are in a losing position because their management is poor.

The Flyers have been able to transform themselves amazingly many times.. without the help of a loser pick.

The Leafs haven't had the benefit of a slam dunk or 3 like Edmonton that still sucks.

Go look up the players drafted directly after Schenn and Kadri.
- Leafs43

What is your point that they are all failures...?

What does that say about this pick.

I haven't said he was a failure I said he is liking trying to impregnate other cattle with another female cow.

Besides the first few picks.. say top 3.. who have almost no choice but to get it right.. the others are in a losing position because their management is poor.

The Flyers have been able to transform themselves amazingly many times.. without the help of a loser pick.

The Leafs haven't had the benefit of a slam dunk or 3 like Edmonton that still sucks.
- DoctorNHL

Well, they did, but....oh yeah. They traded it away.

but a position of weakness turns into a non existent position even quicker.

in my opinion, reilly wasnt the best player available either.

and according to the lists that people want to keep flinging in my face, alot of pro scouts agree.

i get that people are trying to validate it, but the logic isnt there
- joel878

Pro scouts don't scout amateurs.

Also tell me which one of those actually can defend... because the majority of those are career minuses.. and one of the worst defenses ever assembled.

Not talking about the ones who aren't here I hope the best for them.. but the ones you listed on the Leafs.. are lousy defensemen. ALL OF THEM bar Gunnar who actually can play in his own end.
- DoctorNHL

We defend with a system. And we got (frank)ing cannons out the ass on the blueline now

Plenty of choices, and better ones at that. Grigs could prove us wrong, but Burke doesn't draft from the Q or Russians. And I won't fault him for that at all.
- Boosinicka

Disagree and believe history will prove me right..

We defend with a system. And we got (frank)ing cannons out the ass on the blueline now
- Boosinicka

It is the weakest Defense in the NHL.. and it didn't get tighter with the latest pick..

We defend with a system. And we got (frank)ing cannons out the ass on the blueline now
- Boosinicka

Right. Think someone can teach a couple of 'em how to cover the front of our net? Haven't seen much in the way of defensive zone coverage in, oh, 9 years or so.