No, I'm saying the trade was a horrible mismanagement of draft assets.
- triggermartin

Yup, you're confused.

just a quick question

how many years do you believe it should take a prospect to reach the NHL?

also.. side note.. seguin was only brought up to the nhl in his rookie year because boston didnt want him playing in junior since he was too good for the league but they couldnt put him in the ahl because he wasnt 20

so, for a typical pick.. how many years?
- Dozzer

Depends on the player.

WTF?

why do you guys think that a guy should be able to make the NHL as a f'n teenager?!

absolutely ludicrous
- Dozzer

Not at all, I like them all as prospects, but we've all liked a whole host of other prospects, that did look like good prospects at the time.... The thing is, until they actually come to the NHL, and show their stuff, they can't be used as examples of good drafting.

Furthermore, attributing the drafting to the GM isn't all that smart either, since he goes by his scouts... And Toronto has had good scouts for a long time, just not good picks.

No, I'm saying the trade was a horrible mismanagement of draft assets.
- triggermartin

if burke knew it was going to be the 2nd overall pick that year im pretty sure they would not have done the deal.

ahhh.. okay.. here is where burke has made his mistake

the reason those kids arent on the roster was from bad FA signings.. he clogged the roster up with underachieving vets

that.. i will give you.. is FA record is (frank)in horrid.

get rid of those clowns signed in FA and all of a sudden there is room for the picks to make the big club
- Dozzer

This. Exactly.

Just for arguements sake, if Komisarek, Connolly, Lombardi and Dupius not been around at the beginning of the past season - who - most likely - would have had a shot at a regular roster spot?

a) Franson ... likely would have had Komisarek's ice time right out of the gate. Let's call that a win - addition by subtraction
b) Boyce over Dupuis... probably should have just kept Darryl Boyce... energetic, scored a few unexpected goals, seemed to work hard... and oh yeah Boyce wasn't Dupius ... so that woudl be a massive addition by subtraction of Dupius enormous suckiness. Was there any correlation between Dupius eventual demotion and the improvement in the penality kill - or am I overreaching?
c) Colborne over Connolly... quite likely ... although JoeC had some injury issues, and appeared to disappear at time during games ... or was I just describing "annointed 1st line center who was a really high draft pick and btw I'm American" fragile Timmy? Not signing Connolly, regardless of the conttract duration would have been a better move. Play the kids.
d) Lombardi not really a FA signing.. but for all intents and purposes his presence in the line-up prevented either or both of Kadri Frattin from more time with Leafs - and that was clearly worth it based on Lombardi's contributions. (ya I know he's a nice guy, and he can skate really fast, and he deserves a chance to come back from concussion ... yadda yadda yadda )

I think the FA/July 1st lesson that BB needs to internalize is very simply - sign elite or sign hungry...

and
stop
signing
Americans
who
you
have
an
abnormally
large
soft
spot
for.

Fair enough, guys. I get it. You're happy with Burke's draft record, happy to pile on anyone who criticizes it, you're happy to bury the Kessel deal and NEVER EVER speak of it again, and pretend it doesn't relate whatsoever to Burke's draft record. I'm not, but whatever. Fair enough, carry on.

+++++100
- PrinceLH

Fair enough, guys. I get it. You're happy with Burke's draft record, you're happy to bury the Kessel deal and NEVER EVER speak of it again, and pretend it doesn't relate whatsoever to Burke's draft record. I'm not, but whatever. Fair enough, carry on.
- triggermartin

Bryan Allan (4)
Daniel and Henrik (2,3)
Nathan Smith (23)
RJ Umberger (16)
Ryan Kesler (23)

bobby Ryan (2)
Mark Mitera (19)
Logan MacMillan (19)
Jake Gardiner (17)

Kadri (7)
Tyler Biggs (22)
Stuart Percy (25)

And he also drafted Pronger.


Woops. Here's his first round record. Just ignore that, though.

feed for tonight... anyone...??

Discuss.
- Brian Huddle

New batteries?

Bryan Allan (4)
Daniel and Henrik (2,3)
Nathan Smith (23)
RJ Umberger (16)
Ryan Kesler (23)

bobby Ryan (2)
Mark Mitera (19)
Logan MacMillan (19)
Jake Gardiner (17)

Kadri (7)
Tyler Biggs (22)
Stuart Percy (25)

And he also drafted Pronger.


Woops. Here's his first round record. Just ignore that, though.
- jbold

cs

Yeah. Too bad I'm not 'nucks, ducks, or whalers fan, isn't it.

Fair enough, guys. I get it. You're happy with Burke's draft record, you're happy to bury the Kessel deal and NEVER EVER speak of it again, and pretend it doesn't relate whatsoever to Burke's draft record. I'm not, but whatever. Fair enough, carry on.
- triggermartin

Right now it is a wait and see pattern, if none pan out, then we have a big reason to question Burke and the scouts selections. Dave Morrison is a pretty bright guy and does his due diligence in advance of the draft.

cs

Yeah. Too bad I'm not 'nucks, ducks, or whalers fan, isn't it.
- triggermartin

According to you, Burkes drafting sucks.


oops.

cs

Yeah. Too bad I'm not 'nucks, ducks, or whalers fan, isn't it.
- triggermartin

You kind of missed your own point there buddy...you claim Burke's drafting record sucks, yet you completely ignore players that, you know, Burke drafted. You at no point mentioned that you were referring to Burke's record AS A LEAFS GM.

No, I'm saying the trade was a horrible mismanagement of draft assets.
- triggermartin

So you are changing your argument from Burke being a bad drafter to Burke mismanaging his draft assets.

This I can agree with, but it was not your original argument.

feed for tonight... anyone...??
- MaximusAurelius

Doesnt Tsn stream it?

Fair enough, guys. I get it. You're happy with Burke's draft record, happy to pile on anyone who criticizes it, you're happy to bury the Kessel deal and NEVER EVER speak of it again, and pretend it doesn't relate whatsoever to Burke's draft record. I'm not, but whatever. Fair enough, carry on.
- triggermartin

Burke didnt draft in the first round that year, he got a highly skilled player in Kessel who cost us two first rounders. Its done. Why bother continuously bringing it up? Had Burke drafted Seguin and Hamilton are we so sure Seguin would haev flourished as he did on a strong, insulated team like Boston, or be another Kadri struggling to make the roster?

Lets not play the grass is greener, that game is no fun. Our grass may not be as green, but we've been watering it a lot lately and paying close attention to its needs and it will get there soon...be patient.

Fair enough, guys. I get it. You're happy with Burke's draft record, happy to pile on anyone who criticizes it, you're happy to bury the Kessel deal and NEVER EVER speak of it again, and pretend it doesn't relate whatsoever to Burke's draft record. I'm not, but whatever. Fair enough, carry on.
- triggermartin

im talking about it but you choose to ignore what im saying. bottom line is in hindsight its a bad deal. but at the time giving up 2 firsts and a 2 rounder for a 30 goal scoring machine who was 21 years old was a great deal, being that they and myself included expected to finish alot higher that year. so in giving up a 2 overall(seguin) yes it is bad. the other two guys are still just prospects but yes in hindsight it was a bad deal. are you satisfied sir ?

Burke didnt draft in the first round that year, he got a highly skilled player in Kessel who cost us two first rounders. Its done. Why bother continuously bringing it up? Had Burke drafted Seguin and Hamilton are we so sure Seguin would haev flourished as he did on a strong, insulated team like Boston, or be another Kadri struggling to make the roster?

Lets not play the grass is greener, that game is no fun. Our grass may not be as green, but we've been watering it a lot lately and paying close attention to its needs and it will get there soon...be patient.
- noename09

IF we didnt do the Kessel trade, would people be so sure that we would be drafting Seguin in the first place?

For all we know, a separate deal could have been made

Fair enough, guys. I get it. You're happy with Burke's draft record, happy to pile on anyone who criticizes it, you're happy to bury the Kessel deal and NEVER EVER speak of it again, and pretend it doesn't relate whatsoever to Burke's draft record. I'm not, but whatever. Fair enough, carry on.
- triggermartin

Saying that Burke is a bad drafter because he traded the picks is like saying someone is a bad driver because they sold their car.

c) Colborne over Connolly... quite likely ... although JoeC had some injury issues, and appeared to disappear at time during games ... or was I just describing "annointed 1st line center who was a really high draft pick and btw I'm American" fragile Timmy? Not signing Connolly, regardless of the conttract duration would have been a better move. Play the kids.

- BorjeFan4Ever

Colborne wasn't ready last year. His stats don't look too bad, but if you remember him actually playing, he was overwhelmed.

It was better he spent the season in the A.

It was the right move.

cs

Yeah. Too bad I'm not 'nucks, ducks, or whalers fan, isn't it.
- triggermartin

whos fan are you? you dont even sound like your a fan of life or yourself

Burke didnt draft in the first round that year, he got a highly skilled player in Kessel who cost us two first rounders. Its done. Why bother continuously bringing it up? Had Burke drafted Seguin and Hamilton are we so sure Seguin would haev flourished as he did on a strong, insulated team like Boston, or be another Kadri struggling to make the roster?

Lets not play the grass is greener, that game is no fun. Our grass may not be as green, but we've been watering it a lot lately and paying close attention to its needs and it will get there soon...be patient.
- noename09

He wants Miracle Grow

Burke didnt draft in the first round that year, he got a highly skilled player in Kessel who cost us two first rounders. Its done. Why bother continuously bringing it up? Had Burke drafted Seguin and Hamilton are we so sure Seguin would haev flourished as he did on a strong, insulated team like Boston, or be another Kadri struggling to make the roster?

Lets not play the grass is greener, that game is no fun. Our grass may not be as green, but we've been watering it a lot lately and paying close attention to its needs and it will get there soon...be patient.
- noename09

Oooh, nice one, Noename!

cs

Yeah. Too bad I'm not 'nucks, ducks, or whalers fan, isn't it.
- triggermartin

Especially if you look good in green.