It's late - but I have this thought -

1) Crawford and Montador for Bobby Lu (solves our Goalie issue)
2) Hammer and Frolik for Z. Smith and N. Foligno (adds toughness)

Saves us 1.3 million on salary.
- powerenforcer

Sorry chief but we've got too many goalies in the pipe. Therefore bringing back Crawford wouldn't be viable. Plus I doubt we'd have even a passing interest in Montador. I thought about CHI as a trade partner for Lu and I honestly can't see it.

Trolling? You're a penguin fan who obviously didn't do your homework on the mess SB had to fix because of Dale Tallon. If we had the current salary cap back in 2010 we would not have to dump salary. Not to mention he resigned our core. You can't make chicken salad from chicken poop.
- scorerstouch

Excuses!

I loathe hearing this. SB had choices..... He made the wrong ones. Are you saying SB couldn't have traded Kane at $6.3 million for a kings ransom at that time and kept Ladd ($1.5), Buff ($3), and Versteeg ($3)? Or that he HAD to re-sign hammer on SJ's terms at $3.5 mil (instead of taking 1st and 3rd round compensation picks)? If SB was patient and held out as much as possible the cap went up the following season and maybe the hawks look like this now:

Sharp-Toews-Versteeg
Ladd-Bolland-Hossa

Keith-Seabs
Campbell-Buff

+ whatever return he'd have got from trading Kane.

That's just one scenario that SB COULD have done. There are more. He HAD choices. He CHOSE to liquidate the team at bargain prices.

Face it...... He did a crap job of unloading solid talent (buff, Ladd, Versteeg, Brouwer, Campbell, niemi) for what? Just Stalberg? in two seasons not one other player he traded for has cracked the NHL. That's unacceptable!

I don't really care what your response is cause it will just be another SB spoon-fed excuse.

Excuses!

I loathe hearing this. SB had choices..... He made the wrong ones. Are you saying SB couldn't have traded Kane at $6.3 million for a kings ransom at that time and kept Ladd ($1.5), Buff ($3), and Versteeg ($3)? Or that he HAD to re-sign hammer on SJ's terms at $3.5 mil (instead of taking 1st and 3rd round compensation picks)? If SB was patient and held out as much as possible the cap went up the following season and maybe the hawks look like this now:

Sharp-Toews-Versteeg
Ladd-Bolland-Hossa

Keith-Seabs
Campbell-Buff

+ whatever return he'd have got from trading Kane.

That's just one scenario that SB COULD have done. There are more. He HAD choices. He CHOSE to liquidate the team at bargain prices.

Face it...... He did a crap job of unloading solid talent (buff, Ladd, Versteeg, Brouwer, Campbell, niemi) for what? Just Stalberg? in two seasons not one other player he traded for has cracked the NHL. That's unacceptable!

I don't really care what your response is cause it will just be another SB spoon-fed excuse.
- moylander

+1 Nice one moy

+1 Nice one moy
- southernhawk

Thanks. Nothing SB has done leads me to believe he is competent enough to make the best choices/decisions for the hawks organization, then or now.

Excuses!

I loathe hearing this. SB had choices..... He made the wrong ones. Are you saying SB couldn't have traded Kane at $6.3 million for a kings ransom at that time and kept Ladd ($1.5), Buff ($3), and Versteeg ($3)? Or that he HAD to re-sign hammer on SJ's terms at $3.5 mil (instead of taking 1st and 3rd round compensation picks)? If SB was patient and held out as much as possible the cap went up the following season and maybe the hawks look like this now:

Sharp-Toews-Versteeg
Ladd-Bolland-Hossa

Keith-Seabs
Campbell-Buff

+ whatever return he'd have got from trading Kane.

That's just one scenario that SB COULD have done. There are more. He HAD choices. He CHOSE to liquidate the team at bargain prices.

Face it...... He did a crap job of unloading solid talent (buff, Ladd, Versteeg, Brouwer, Campbell, niemi) for what? Just Stalberg? in two seasons not one other player he traded for has cracked the NHL. That's unacceptable!

I don't really care what your response is cause it will just be another SB spoon-fed excuse.
- moylander

Dude. Kane was not g
oing to get traded for a salary cap dump right after scoring the winning goal in the stanley cup finals.
1. If McD would have been involved in nixing a trade that would have been it.
2. Im not sure anyone predicted decline in production from Kane the last 2 years.
3. We all love Buff Ladd Versteeg Brouwer and Fraser but come on. Two years ago you're not trading Kane.

But now after the past two years if this type of situation ever happens again I think your point of being able to replace the super star is easier than replacing the perfect role players has something to it.

Dude. Kane was not g
oing to get traded for a salary cap dump right after scoring the winning goal in the stanley cup finals.
1. If McD would have been involved in nixing a trade that would have been it.
2. Im not sure anyone predicted decline in production from Kane the last 2 years.
3. We all love Buff Ladd Versteeg Brouwer and Fraser but come on. Two years ago you're not trading Kane.

But now after the past two years if this type of situation ever happens again I think your point of being able to replace the super star is easier than replacing the perfect role players has something to it.
- mrpaulish

I think moy is saying hindsight is 20\20 ...you know

I think moy is saying hindsight is 20\20 ...you know
- southernhawk

And hes not lying, but when everyone here was discussing who was leaving after the Cup. Kane Toews and Keith were not options, not even 1 percent.

Dude. Kane was not g
oing to get traded for a salary cap dump right after scoring the winning goal in the stanley cup finals.
1. If McD would have been involved in nixing a trade that would have been it.
2. Im not sure anyone predicted decline in production from Kane the last 2 years.
3. We all love Buff Ladd Versteeg Brouwer and Fraser but come on. Two years ago you're not trading Kane.

But now after the past two years if this type of situation ever happens again I think your point of being able to replace the super star is easier than replacing the perfect role players has something to it.
- mrpaulish

No GM in there right mind would have traded Kane at that time!!

No GM in there right mind would have traded Kane at that time!!
- jimmy33

This.

And I don't see Kane getting dealt now. Unless there really is a team out there offering something of value in return. I think the incident in Madison has really hurt his trade value.

Excuses!

I loathe hearing this. SB had choices..... He made the wrong ones. Are you saying SB couldn't have traded Kane at $6.3 million for a kings ransom at that time and kept Ladd ($1.5), Buff ($3), and Versteeg ($3)? Or that he HAD to re-sign hammer on SJ's terms at $3.5 mil (instead of taking 1st and 3rd round compensation picks)? If SB was patient and held out as much as possible the cap went up the following season and maybe the hawks look like this now:

Sharp-Toews-Versteeg
Ladd-Bolland-Hossa

Keith-Seabs
Campbell-Buff

+ whatever return he'd have got from trading Kane.

That's just one scenario that SB COULD have done. There are more. He HAD choices. He CHOSE to liquidate the team at bargain prices.

Face it...... He did a crap job of unloading solid talent (buff, Ladd, Versteeg, Brouwer, Campbell, niemi) for what? Just Stalberg? in two seasons not one other player he traded for has cracked the NHL. That's unacceptable!

I don't really care what your response is cause it will just be another SB spoon-fed excuse.
- moylander

LOL you for real? Don't forget Ladd and Buffy needed new deals so those salaries are only good for one season. Buff wasn't a D-man either. Stan's primary acquisitions via trade were prospects and picks. Not rostered players. He's made a handful of mistakes but he also done some good as well and people are over the top with some of the criticisms.

And hes not lying, but when everyone here was discussing who was leaving after the Cup. Kane Toews and Keith were not options, not even 1 percent.
- mrpaulish

And we all bought into the 'fire sale' concept that hawks PR sold us and we didn't know SB was/is a terrible GM.

All I'm saying is there were choices to be made. All SB HAD to do was have his roster compliant by the start of the season. To say he HAD to give up one guy over another or that he HAD to get back the return he did is BS. It's his job to make the right decisions for the club..... And in hindsight he didn't.

it's not like the hawks are the first team that has been up against the cap with bonuses. Other GM's CHOOSE not to hang up a sign in the window that says all inventory must go. What that pens fan that scorers jumped on and the rest of the league saw was a rookie GM get devoured by a bunch of sharks that smelled blood in the water. Bottom line.

Hold a person accountable for their decisions. Flyers fans get a bad rap but at least they do that well. How many chances you gonna give these guys; Q, SB, McD? LA had a coaching change midseason, so did the blues, and the flyers the season we played you in the finals. These are GM's trying to give their teams the best chance to win. Jmo.

And we all bought into the 'fire sale' concept that hawks PR sold us and we didn't know SB was/is a terrible GM.

All I'm saying is there were choices to be made. All SB HAD to do was have his roster compliant by the start of the season. To say he HAD to give up one guy over another or that he HAD to get back the return he did is BS. It's his job to make the right decisions for the club..... And in hindsight he didn't.

it's not like the hawks are the first team that has been up against the cap with bonuses. Other GM's CHOOSE not to hang up a sign in the window that says all inventory must go. What that pens fan that scorers jumped on and the rest of the league saw was a rookie GM get devoured by a bunch of sharks that smelled blood in the water. Bottom line.

Hold a person accountable for their decisions. Flyers fans get a bad rap but at least they do that well. How many chances you gonna give these guys; Q, SB, McD? LA had a coaching change midseason, so did the blues, and the flyers the season we played you in the finals. These are GM's trying to give their teams the best chance to win. Jmo.
- moylander

Why are you asking anyone here?

You waste a lot of your time on this topic lol

We can't change anything

Some examples of GM's making recent tough decisions for cap compliance:


NJ was up against the cap in 2011 with the Kovy signing. Lou chose to roll with 18-19 roster players to start the season rather than a full roster. Hurt in the short term (half a season) but helped them reach the SCF in 2012.

Flyers could have 'dumped' salary like Carle, Mez, or Coburn to sign Bryz...... But Homer chose to maximize returns by trading stars (carts and richie) that hold their value (even over the cap) instead of fire sale pieces (for those that negotiate for a living, Homer's BATNA would be the fire sale so there is indeed leverage).

Why are you asking anyone here?

You waste a lot of your time on this topic lol

We can't change anything

- pri$ey

Good point.


My bad. Excuses are a hot button for me. I hear them I get pissed. I'm sure I'm a real joy to work for. Lol.


Moving on....

Thanks. Nothing SB has done leads me to believe he is competent enough to make the best choices/decisions for the hawks organization, then or now.
- moylander

Spot on - he doesn't have much hockey sense or talent evaluation. And he is a big gambler.
For example -
1. in dumping all that salary after the cup season - what was the return? Ya ya, his options were limited. Ladd only got a little raise in first season in Atlanta - 2.3mil or so
2. why did he wait so long in the arb moves for Niemi and Hammer? Then signs Turco. By the way, he had to match Hammer, there were no decent dmen left. but here is a guy on a tight budget and then waits 1 to 1.5 months to determine his final budget. He had to dump more than necessary too early.
3. Why did he sign emery? We need a goalie that will help win a cup. Is Emery the man? We know Crawford is highly questionable.
4. Why give Carcillo the raise, coming off injury?
5. If he was looking to spend on goalie, why spend so much on Crawford? Mike Smith was available.
6. The Sharp contract is a little pricey.
7. Moving Campbell, replacements were poor. Olesz?
8. Not resigning Campoli
9. no acquistion of face-off man in last season.
10. Oduya pickup, looked good at first - but his poor performance in the playoffs - questionable.
11. Morrisson? Looked really poor in his first few games - but played better later
12. Brunette for 2 mil, ouch!!! Should have had him for 1mil or kept Brouwer for 2.2.

Good moves:
1. moving Skille
2. getting Leddy
3. last Stahlberg contract
4. Bickel contract

Flyers could have 'dumped' salary like Carle, Mez, or Coburn to sign Bryz...... But Homer chose to maximize returns by trading stars (carts and richie) that hold their value (even over the cap) instead of fire sale pieces (for those that negotiate for a living, Homer's BATNA would be the fire sale so there is indeed leverage).
- moylander

Yeah and how exactly did that work out for the Flyers? And those traded?

Just heard from my top guy, he thinks Bowman is under pressure to get busy (from above). Watch for salary moves (Hammer), also possibly Kane moved. Too much to hunt and peck right now. Plots thickening re: Suter, Ryan, possible Hawk move on Parise
- John Jaeckel

I just hope that Stan Bowman makes moves that get this NHL roster better now, I hate prospects. Ive just always felt you gotta try and win the cup. Get rid of all the prospect for NHL talent, when that talent get too old and the team turns bad then you get high picks and rebuild that way. Multiple years of 1st round exits with cap space remaining drives me nuts.

5. If he was looking to spend on goalie, why spend so much on Crawford? Mike Smith was available.
- Topshelf2010

I'm with you except here. Honestly, who wanted Mike Smith last summer? Do you think Stephan Waite could have worked the magic that the Phoenix goalie coach worked with Smith? I don't.

Some examples of GM's making recent tough decisions for cap compliance:


NJ was up against the cap in 2011 with the Kovy signing. Lou chose to roll with 18-19 roster players to start the season rather than a full roster. Hurt in the short term (half a season) but helped them reach the SCF in 2012.

Flyers could have 'dumped' salary like Carle, Mez, or Coburn to sign Bryz...... But Homer chose to maximize returns by trading stars (carts and richie) that hold their value (even over the cap) instead of fire sale pieces (for those that negotiate for a living, Homer's BATNA would be the fire sale so there is indeed leverage).
- moylander

Richards and Carter hoisted a Cup above their heads...

The length of Luongo's deal really puts it over the top.

Finger's deal is a bad one. Redden was even worse.
- EKolb13

Does any awful contract even compare to DiPietro's?

Richards and Carter hoisted a Cup above their heads...


- fattybeef

truth

Some examples of GM's making recent tough decisions for cap compliance:


NJ was up against the cap in 2011 with the Kovy signing. Lou chose to roll with 18-19 roster players to start the season rather than a full roster. Hurt in the short term (half a season) but helped them reach the SCF in 2012.

Flyers could have 'dumped' salary like Carle, Mez, or Coburn to sign Bryz...... But Homer chose to maximize returns by trading stars (carts and richie) that hold their value (even over the cap) instead of fire sale pieces (for those that negotiate for a living, Homer's BATNA would be the fire sale so there is indeed leverage).
- moylander

We've talked about the Flyers moves before and I'm still of the same opinion.

I think the Flyers made out great, the roster is very well balanced IMO.. but now that the Kings won the Cup with Carter and Richards, they end up the winner until Philly can win one with the players they got in the deals..

I give Holmgren a great deal of respect for the balls he's had over the last couple of years..

What do you think of the Nash and Philly stuff?

Does any awful contract even compare to DiPietro's?
- InvisibleOrange

That may be the most awful one yet. Good call!

Richards and Carter hoisted a Cup above their heads...


- fattybeef

Good for them. Very happy for them, Simon Gagne, Ron Hextall, and John Stevens.

Also happy to have Schenn, Couturier, Simmonds, Voracek, Grossmann, Cousins rather than Carter and Richie locked in 10 year contracts with NMC's. Flyers needed more balance, too top heavy and no goalie sound familiar?

Trade worked out for well for both teams. Flyers will be back to the SCF..... watch. They have a franchise that's been there 8 times in the last 45 years.

We've talked about the Flyers moves before and I'm still of the same opinion.

I think the Flyers made out great, the roster is very well balanced IMO.. but now that the Kings won the Cup with Carter and Richards, they end up the winner until Philly can win one with the players they got in the deals..

I give Holmgren a great deal of respect for the balls he's had over the last couple of years..

What do you think of the Nash and Philly stuff?
- pri$ey

I like watching the Flyers , they're fun. The problemi Phili now is they thought they solve their goaltending issues but they didnt. Its going to be their problem for a while.