If Phil Kessel is worth two lottery picks and and 2nd rounder then logic says Gagner is worth one lottery pick.
- Starbuck

In fairness no one knew it was going to be 2 lottery picks at the time.

This was posted by Morris... Gagner haters take notice...

From the 2000-2007 draft, there were 77 picks 20th-30th overall. From a cursory glance, Gagner has shown more than around 65% of them, and about 18% of them have shown more than Gagner (there are a lot on the same level as him, or more promising that have shown less - and of course some of the "better" players I have are more established than Gagner). Still, of that 18% who are better talents than Gagner, 5 of them (Burns, Kesler, Richards, Boyle and Perry) were from the 2003 draft (35% of that 18%).

This has little to do with people's percieved value of draft picks, but barring an inordinately amazing crop of draft talent the likelihood that a 20-30 pick will be better than Gagner is not that high. That being said, I'd bet GMs would lowball Tambs if he was shopping Gagner. i.e. I believe Gagner to be worth more than a late first, but he might not fetch that at this juncture (which is why we should keep him).

Sources of error:
i) The evaluations here are subjective and somewhat binary (I measured whether players were better, worse or at the same level as Gagner, and not the extent).
ii) It's quite possible that players drafted as late as 2005 could have made a calder-elligible NHL debut this year, so evaluations are not necessarily indicative of who will be the best player (we could be judging one season of player A vs. seven of player B).
- Morris

When we consider the fact that Gagner is 22, and those drafted before 2007 are more mature (age wise) and have had more time to develop and craft their game, the argument that Gagner isn't worth a first rounder is simply... Well... Retarded.

The end.

If Phil Kessel is worth two lottery picks and and 2nd rounder then logic says Gagner is worth one lottery pick.
- Starbuck

1. Kessel was not traded for two lottery picks.
2. He wasnt worth what he was traded for.

I always think about clouts and feaster naked and smearing crisco on each other....
- ChrisMS

Sick (frank)

If Phil Kessel is worth two lottery picks and and 2nd rounder then logic says Gagner is worth one lottery pick.
- Starbuck

*Jimmy T's theme music starts playing*

*Jimmy T's theme music starts playing*
- laughs2907

Whats his theme music?

This was posted by Morris... Gagner haters take notice...



When we consider the fact that Gagner is 22, and those drafted before 2007 are more mature (age wise) and have had more time to develop and craft their game, the argument that Gagner isn't worth a first rounder is simply... Well... Retarded.

The end.
- laughs2907

Few people are saying he is not worth a first. It is the argument that he is worth the 8th that has people up in arms.

It's because Mats Sundin retired and since then, they have nothing worthy of discussion.
- Maxbone

Horcoff's contract is worse than JayBo's is.

Sick (frank)
- Starbuck

wait a minute.... lets make it a tourney... when your done doing the same with gagner, the winners get married in New York!

Whats his theme music?
- Starbuck

Yakupov could conceivably be the only player from this entire draft in the NHL next year.
- mochoson

I think Murray might be able to as well in a smaller role. But this teen reenforces my point, I'm not trading a 40-50 point center for a glaring hole in my roster next season.

If Phil Kessel is worth two lottery picks and and 2nd rounder then logic says Gagner is worth one lottery pick.
- Starbuck

Are you suggesting that Kessel is worth that?

all around game can;t be judged only by stats... ask 29 temas in the league, and they take weiss each time.
- ChrisMS

And ask anyone that has watch Weiss or Gagner, they are the same kind exact player.

And an all around game can most certainly be judged by stats. Weiss defensive statistics are better, but he is also older. Weiss wasn't always as complete a player. Gagner has shown progression in the areas that you mention Weiss excels in. Hopefully, by the same age, Weiss will be as good if not better.

Considering also that....
-Gagner's numbers thus far in his career are an exact replica of Weiss' at the same stage.
-Both of their numbers have been effected at some point by being on a poopty team and a lack of quality line-mates
-They are both the same size
-They are both highly skilled, pass-first players that rely on hockey sense and vision to create most of their offense.

What's insanely creepy is at the same age/years played that Gagner is currently at in Weiss' career, the lockout happened

I'm pretty sure this is meant to rile up Flames fans but (frank) it I'll bite. NO, as in no, never in a million years would I make that trade and also, you're insane for suggesting it

BTW apparently Backlund is on the block as well, which is probably a mistake

Cloutier, you're as bad as most Oiler fans when it comes to trades.

There's no way Carolina moves the 8th overall pick straight across for Sam Gagner - no way it's happening!!!

Second, there's no way Jay-Bo ever plays for the Oilers, at least not now and he won't be traded for Horcoff. If the Oilers want him, they'll be giving up youth and talented youth at that.

But since you all think the Oilers can rob other teams, maybe Klefbom, Pitlick & the Oilers 1st/2013 head to the Flames for Jay-BO.

What do you think about that - haha!!
- newmy

I'd do this deal in a heartbeat. It's a huge overpayment for Bouwmeester.

I'm a bit different, if something is obviously way overdone, i.e. the pens blog rumor of the 8th, faulk, sutter for staal, martin, I am going to denounce it... speaking of which.....
- ChrisMS

Yeah but if gagner. is maybe worth a mid to late 1st an 8th overall isn't that much of a stretch.

If Phil Kessel is worth two lottery picks and and 2nd rounder then logic says Gagner is worth one lottery pick.
- Starbuck

now now, it was only 1 lottery pick, a 9th, and a 2nd rounder

And ask anyone that has watch Weiss or Gagner, they are the same kind exact player.

And an all around game can most certainly be judged by stats. Weiss defensive statistics are better, but he is also older. Weiss wasn't always as complete a player. Gagner has shown progression in the areas that you mention Weiss excels in. Hopefully, by the same age, Weiss will be as good if not better.

Considering also that....
-Gagner's numbers thus far in his career are an exact replica of Weiss' at the same stage.
-Both of their numbers have been effected at some point by being on a poopty team and a lack of quality line-mates
-They are both the same size
-They are both highly skilled, pass-first players that rely on hockey sense and vision to create most of their offense.

What's insanely creepy is at the same age/years played that Gagner is currently at in Weiss' career, the lockout happened
- mochoson

I don't want to say gagner is destined to become like Weiss but its a least a counterexample to the idea that gagner cant improve or become a more rounded player.

Looking at that list of 8th overall picks it looks like a stretch to expect a player taken there to turn out better than Gagner.


But ya never know, depends on the teams, who they want there, how they see it.


I still maintain that Gagner is an Oiler for a while yet.

Are you suggesting that Kessel is worth that?
- Jeffmt

Just saying crazy poop happens all the time.... This draft is supposed to lack high end talent so the Hurricanes trading pick #8 for Gagner isn't that far fetched.

In fairness no one knew it was going to be 2 lottery picks at the time.
- whipper334

I did.

If the pressure is on the Oilers to immediately improve, dealing Gagner for an 8th overall pick is definitely a step backwards. For at least a season, if not two or three.
- Maxbone

O. Gagner for an eight overall is a huge step forward. No matter how you look at it.

But its easy to point to some twitter jackazz and claim "see, gagner is worth THAT much". But the trade will never actually happen, because he isn't worth that.