didnt Meltz bring his name up at one point recently?
- Crimsoninja

Not totally sure. Seems like a player who can pot around 18-20 goals and score in the high 50's-low 60's in points.

Dale the Wombat ‏@wombathockey
"@NHLFlyers are getting interesting offers for JVR. They aren't shopping him, but they are listening. Cap hit desirable despite long term"

"JVR cap hit good at his current career PP/G ratio. Any improvement makes him a bargain. Still in prime when deal ends. Flyers intrigued."

Not really a rumour or anything, just an interesting point mentioned. JVR is capable of play like a 5-6 million dollar player long term. His deal is desirable.
- njhockey27

Who, pray tell, is Dale the Wombat?

Not totally sure. Seems like a player who can pot around 18-20 goals and score in the high 50's-low 60's in points.
- stveshdy

Not sure there's a need. Flyers already have 10 top-9 forwards without Jagr.

Of the guys you mention, only one (Chara), is an elite player. Keith, Doughty, Seabrooke, Gonchar, Letang are nice players, but nowhere near Chara, Lidstrom, or Weber.

So your argument that we have to have an elite d-man to win the Cup is flawed. You have to have good players, and play good team defense. But you don't have to have a true elite #1 d-man to win the Cup. Just like you don't have to have a true elite #1 goalie either. Just ask Osgood, Niemi, and for that matter MAF (very good, but not elite).

I think it's more important to keep the young players we have and let them grow together, than it is to gut the team to add one guy. Just my opinion, and I'm aware that many on here will disagree. But I don't think any single player is worth giving up that many top forwards from the current roster. We do not have the depth to replace them, and we won't have the picks or other assets to trade if we make a deal like that.
- BringBack25

No matter how you want to spin it the Flyers have no defensive foundation right now to win a Cup. Letting gustafsson and bourdon grow isn't going to get the Flyers closer to a Cup. Osgood had Lidstrom, Niemi had Keith/Campbell/Seabrook, MAF had Gonchar and Letang, who does Bryz have? If not Weber then the Flyers still need at least legit #1.

They thought that about Pronger, too. The fall-out from that trade hasn't even settled yet -- Etem looks like a potential All-Star, Palmieri not far behind, and we all know how good Sbisa might become. It could look really ugly in hindsight in a couple of years -- to potentially do that again, so soon, would be disastrous.
- Tomahawk

If at first you don't succeed...

I always cringed at Pronger's contract because it was a horrible one on several levels, but he got us pretty close one year so if those who defend the deal were satisfied with that, so be it.

But I agree, a 35 year old Pronger and a 27 year old Weber are two completely animals (so to speak). That said, if we won't have to take two steps back to get one step ahead - again - I'd say take a shot.

Not sure there's a need. Flyers already have 10 top-9 forwards without Jagr.
- bradleyc4

Assuming they move another forward in a trade. Lets say they acquire another player like Mez during the summer.

I don't know if any argument is truly flawed.

You could field Crosby, Malkin, Weber, Quick, etc. on one team and there is no guarantee. The Kings barely made the Playoffs.

So in the end it is providing your team with the best odds/chances of winning. I believer Weber provides that, and big time. I think JVR and Voracek is worth it.

I don't see how Nashville does that deal however. Weber can get them to the dance. Voracek and JVR, on their own, will not.

But who knows what will really happen. I say nothing. Which is rather boring.
- Daman

Weber will not get this team to the dance, if to get him they have to a) give up two top-6 forwards, and b) not sign Jagr to make the $$ work.

That's a full half of our top 6 forwards leaving, and no chance of replacing them by drafting (all our first round picks are gone), or trading (we have no other assets to trade).

I know not everyone agrees. But I would not gut the team for Weber.

Who, pray tell, is Dale the Wombat?
- aightwebang17

Some twitter account that I found on the boards here yesterday. Some rumors, but nothing ground-breaking like Eks

His rumors actually sound believable, that and it's just a good twitter to follow for news and happenings and what not.

But like I said, JVR has the potential to more then earn his 4 mill+ cap hit

Weber will not get this team to the dance, if to get him they have to a) give up two top-6 forwards, and b) not sign Jagr to make the $$ work.

That's a full half of our top 6 forwards leaving, and no chance of replacing them by drafting (all our first round picks are gone), or trading (we have no other assets to trade).

I know not everyone agrees. But I would not gut the team for Weber.
- BringBack25

Your not "gutting" the team. The team was 3rd highest in goals without JVR for the most part. Your giving up 24 points from him and 49 from Voracek. You have to think that Schenn and cooter in their full second years will get some of that back. You do that deal.

Weber will not get this team to the dance, if to get him they have to a) give up two top-6 forwards, and b) not sign Jagr to make the $$ work.

That's a full half of our top 6 forwards leaving, and no chance of replacing them by drafting (all our first round picks are gone), or trading (we have no other assets to trade).

I know not everyone agrees. But I would not gut the team for Weber.
- BringBack25

Your forgetting that JVR didn't play most of last year, and Jagr's ability and numbers tailed off at the end of the season. So really they would only be losing a little of thier offensive production. Plus it also means more ice time for our future top 6 players Schenn, Read, Simmonds, and Couturier. Maybe even Cousins makes an appearence al la Read.

No matter how you want to spin it the Flyers have no defensive foundation right now to win a Cup. Letting gustafsson and bourdon grow isn't going to get the Flyers closer to a Cup. Osgood had Lidstrom, Niemi had Keith/Campbell/Seabrook, MAF had Gonchar and Letang, who does Bryz have? If not Weber then the Flyers still need at least legit #1.
- killercam

I have no objection to improving our defense. I just don't want to gut the team to sign a guy like Weber, when the cost is so high. Just not worth it. Would rather make a different trade for another d-man or two, and keep our young forwards.

IMO you're focusing too much on the idea of needed an elite player to win the Cup. Granted, they fell short, but tell me the name of the elite #1 d-man on the Devil's roster? It's clearly possible to compete for and win the cup without a Norris caliber d-man.

I have no objection to improving our defense. I just don't want to gut the team to sign a guy like Weber, when the cost is so high. Just not worth it. Would rather make a different trade for another d-man or two, and keep our young forwards.

IMO you're focusing too much on the idea of needed an elite player to win the Cup. Granted, they fell short, but tell me the name of the elite #1 d-man on the Devil's roster? It's clearly possible to compete for and win the cup without a Norris caliber d-man.
- BringBack25

Trading JVR and Read wouldn't be "gutting" the team...

Who, pray tell, is Dale the Wombat?
- aightwebang17

A bad pseudonym for Dale Tallon ???

I have no objection to improving our defense. I just don't want to gut the team to sign a guy like Weber, when the cost is so high. Just not worth it. Would rather make a different trade for another d-man or two, and keep our young forwards.

IMO you're focusing too much on the idea of needed an elite player to win the Cup. Granted, they fell short, but tell me the name of the elite #1 d-man on the Devil's roster? It's clearly possible to compete for and win the cup without a Norris caliber d-man.
- BringBack25

scott stevens, scott niedermeyer won the cup for NJ. Their elite

The thing about that is that they did get mighty close to the the Cup. 2 wins? Basically bc of Pronger. They shot their load and almost got it, I'm sure their not going to turtle up b/c of a freak injury
- Just5

You might want to brush up on your history of that postseason... Pronger was a big part, but the real catalysts were Leino coming out of nowhere to join that big line, Giroux's birth as a superstar, and Leighton stepping in to spark the comeback vs Boston.

S

Claude Giroux, Mike Richards and Simon Gagne say hi.

Of the guys you listed, Weber, Quick, Keith, Letang, Thomas, Campbell weren't even drafted in the 1st-round. And only Fleury and Doughty were top-10 picks.




They thought that about Pronger, too. The fall-out from that trade hasn't even settled yet -- Etem looks like a potential All-Star, Palmieri not far behind, and we all know how good Sbisa might become. It could look really ugly in hindsight in a couple of years -- to potentially do that again, so soon, would be disastrous.
- Tomahawk

Giroux has superstar potential if he stays consitent, Richards and Gagne are/were second line players. Pronger did his part getting the Flyers to the Cup but he couldn't play goal also. My point about drafting high was if you are going to take the route of "growing" your team without a young defenseman or young goalie already on the roster your going to need high picks like almost all past champs that "grew" their core.

I have no objection to improving our defense. I just don't want to gut the team to sign a guy like Weber, when the cost is so high. Just not worth it. Would rather make a different trade for another d-man or two, and keep our young forwards.

IMO you're focusing too much on the idea of needed an elite player to win the Cup. Granted, they fell short, but tell me the name of the elite #1 d-man on the Devil's roster? It's clearly possible to compete for and win the cup without a Norris caliber d-man.
- BringBack25

His name is Trappy McForecheck... Your right, you dont need an elite #1 to win like Chara, Keith, Seabrook, Lidstrom, Doughty, oh wait nevermind... But yea, if you play a system like the Devils you dont need that number 1 d-man. Do you see Lavi playing that system anytime soon?

Your not "gutting" the team. The team was 3rd highest in goals without JVR for the most part. Your giving up 24 points from him and 49 from Voracek. You have to think that Schenn and cooter in their full second years will get some of that back. You do that deal.
- Jimmygrazz

I disagree. You're entitled to your opinion. Mine is that I would not trade two of our young, top-6 forwards in a deal for Weber that also included us giving up two first round picks. I think that's a bad deal, and I think you (and many others) are placing way too much importance/value on the idea of adding Weber as being critical to the team reaching the Cup. If the Pronger trade showed us anything, it is that you can have a Norris caliber d-man on your team and still play some pretty bad defense as a team. Adding Weber is not going to automagically make the Cup appear in Philly next spring.

I understand not everyone agrees. But I'm not going to change my mind.

S
Giroux has superstar potential if he stays consitent, Richards and Gagne are/were second line players. Pronger did his part getting the Flyers to the Cup but he couldn't play goal also. My point about drafting high was if you are going to take the route of "growing" your team without a young defenseman or young goalie already on the roster your going to need high picks like almost all past champs that "grew" their core.
- killercam

I disagree. You're entitled to your opinion. Mine is that I would not trade two of our young, top-6 forwards in a deal for Weber that also included us giving up two first round picks. I think that's a bad deal, and I think you (and many others) are placing way too much importance/value on the idea of adding Weber as being critical to the team reaching the Cup. If the Pronger trade showed us anything, it is that you can have a Norris caliber d-man on your team and still play some pretty bad defense as a team. Adding Weber is not going to automagically make the Cup appear in Philly next spring.

I understand not everyone agrees. But I'm not going to change my mind.
- BringBack25

I'll remember that next offseason when they are etching Webers and Giroux name on the cup. You better still hate the deal then.

scott stevens, scott niedermeyer won the cup for NJ. Their elite
- Just5

Um, what? We're talking about this season, and last I checked those guys don't play for the Devils anymore, and did not help them reach the Cup final this season.

Who, pray tell, is Dale the Wombat?
- aightwebang17

He has 29 followers.

I disagree. You're entitled to your opinion. Mine is that I would not trade two of our young, top-6 forwards in a deal for Weber that also included us giving up two first round picks. I think that's a bad deal, and I think you (and many others) are placing way too much importance/value on the idea of adding Weber as being critical to the team reaching the Cup. If the Pronger trade showed us anything, it is that you can have a Norris caliber d-man on your team and still play some pretty bad defense as a team. Adding Weber is not going to automagically make the Cup appear in Philly next spring.

I understand not everyone agrees. But I'm not going to change my mind.
- BringBack25

You make some very good points. My only issue is that Weber at 27 is a much better player than Pronger at 34. I would definately offer JvR, Cousins, MAB & (2) 1st round picks for Weber (thats the max). I don't know what Nashville is looking to get in a Weber deal but the Flyers are so desperate for an elite defenseman.

Stay on target...

You make some very good points. My only issue is that Weber at 27 is a much better player than Pronger at 34. I would definately offer JvR, Cousins, MAB & (2) 1st round picks for Weber (thats the max). I don't know what Nashville is looking to get in a Weber deal but the Flyers are so desperate for an elite defenseman.
- stveshdy

I could live with a deal like the one you propose.

However I disagree that we are "desperate" for an elite defenseman. There are only 3 or 4 of them in the league. Do the other 28 teams that don't have one just quit or what?

I think we're desperate to play better team defense. We may need to add a player or two to do that, but that's the real need. Selling off the youth to get Weber is not going to singlehandedly improve our team defense.