I for one, didn't think anything of the sort. We all saw Carter and Richards in the context of the Flyers for years. As leaders on this team, they had their shots at the Cup and came up short. I don't think there are many Flyer fans who honestly believe that if Carter and Richards were kept this season (and therefore no Couturier, Schenn, Voracek, Simmonds, Grossmann) that it would have resulted in a more successful campaign. Most Flyer fans are very positive on the future upside of the deals Holmgren made, and the performance of the other team the Flyers' traded with are largely inconsequential. Some ignorant observers act as if the teams in question are made up solely of the players involved in the trade, as if there's a fantasy league, where Mike Richards and Jeff Carter comprise one team and Voracek, Couturier, Schenn and Simmonds are on the other...and since the team with Carter and Richards won the Cup, they are clearly the victors in the trade....this is stupid logic, yet this is the basis of the sentiment of many casual observers like yourself.

I'll point out that the Blue Jackets didn't seem to benefit at all from trading for Jeff Carter. If he's such a big factor and one of the winning chips the Flyers traded away, then why didn't the Jackets improve by adding him? Carter was only seen as a plus once he was on a solid team like L.A., so obviously his winning the Cup had a lot more to do with the team he was ultimately on versus his own individual value on a given team, whether it was the Flyers or some other. Meanwhile, there is no question that the addition of Couturier and Voracek were big positives for the Flyers.

The trades Holmgren made were largely designed to enhance the Flyers FUTURE. Very few fans figured the team would be as competitive and get as far as they did this season with the old leaders gone and new, young players that were largely unproven at the NHL level coming in as starters. At this point, most fans are elated to have a fresh infusion of quality youth, regardless of what Carter and Richards have gone on and done. Most fans would make those same trades again and that's really as much of a ringing endorsement of Holmgren as is needed to show we aren't lamenting the changes he made.
- phantasm

I agree with most of this, especially the part about being excited for the future of this team. I like this team going forward very much. I like the trades and the return they got.

But where I totally disagree is your logic as far as Carter with Columbus. Columbus is such a weak team with some may holes in it, that no player of Jeff Carter's ability would turn it around. Only the best of the superstars would have made a significant difference in that situation. So that logic is flawed. And I also disagree with suing that logic to again minimize Carter's role on LA. And what did the Flyers win in adding Couturier and Voracek? The bottom line is that is was a good deal for both teams in the Carter trade to Columbus. In winning the Cup, using the same standard, there is absolutely no doubt that adding Carter was a big positive for LA. Have to apply the same standard of judgement and ee it both ways.

You're really growing on me kid keep it up
- JoeRussomanno

Wild look serious

http://prohockeytalk.nbcs...going-to-outbid-the-wild/
- aosplayo

This was my guess.

Imagine if the get him and Suter...

- Giroux_Is_God

don't start humping my leg now

Wild look serious

http://prohockeytalk.nbcs...going-to-outbid-the-wild/
- aosplayo

Yea, I'd peg them as favorites.

Wild look serious

http://prohockeytalk.nbcs...going-to-outbid-the-wild/
- aosplayo

Hes a native, no?

This was my guess.

Imagine if the get him and Suter...
- aightwebang17

They need Suter more.

Hes a native, no?
- mochoson

Indeed.

Well thanks for agreeing with me. I personally don't feel any of the issues you mentioned are true. I beleive that it's all manufactured BS in my opinion. And this year proved that even further as to the character of Richards and Carter as players.
- MJL

Not true huh? Kimmo talking with Holmgren after the season about needing personnel changes because of the lockeroom didn't happen? Dry Island was all a rumor? Many players on this year's squad who were there last year didn't state how much better the room was such as Pronger, Hartnell, Giroux. Lavy and Richards didn't admit that their relationship was ice cold last year? Richards didn't show up an hour late to the jersey unveiling a few years back and then leave immediately following it, being in a bad mood the whole time towards fans? Peter Luuko didn't make a comment (which was so obviously a dig at Frick and Frack) about how Giroux during the Stanley Cup Finals was unlike any other young player because all he did was ask about how much more he could do? Mike Richards wouldn't wear a Flyers hat for interviews even when directed to by his bosses. Jeff Carter, a professional hockey player and an adult, barricaded himself in a beach house forcing his new bosses to come to him and convince him to do his job. Lastly, many annonomous Kings players earlier this year mentioned that Richards was dividing the room between his guys and Brown's guys. (I could even mention Richards play pretty much most of the 2nd half of the year when he looked indifferent to trying, but I guess there is no proof to that).

Don't be so naive.

They need Suter more.
- LordStanley88

Disagree

Wild were one of the best defensive teams in the league until they experienced so many injuries.

They need goal scoring.

More of an if post, but per Eklund.

I was also coming here to see if anyone else has heard this from other more reliable outlets perhaps?
- LordStanley88

He stated "no way" when asked by a New Jersey based Rangers beat reporter.

don't start humping my leg now
- JoeRussomanno

Yea, I'd peg them as favorites.
- LordStanley88

Parise and Mikko...

Luckily they're out West

The Kings had a fantastic breakout structure. Would really like to see the Flyers get to that level in that area.
- MJL

I very much agree with this.

Not true huh? Kimmo talking with Holmgren after the season about needing personnel changes because of the lockeroom didn't happen? Dry Island was all a rumor? Many players on this year's squad who were there last year didn't state how much better the room was such as Pronger, Hartnell, Giroux. Lavy and Richards didn't admit that their relationship was ice cold last year? Richards didn't show up an hour late to the jersey unveiling a few years back and then leave immediately following it, being in a bad mood the whole time towards fans? Peter Luuko didn't make a comment (which was so obviously a dig at Frick and Frack) about how Giroux during the Stanley Cup Finals was unlike any other young player because all he did was ask about how much more he could do? Mike Richards wouldn't wear a Flyers hat for interviews even when directed to by his bosses. Jeff Carter, a professional hockey player and an adult, barricaded himself in a beach house forcing his new bosses to come to him and convince him to do his job. Lastly, many annonomous Kings players earlier this year mentioned that Richards was dividing the room between his guys and Brown's guys. (I could even mention Richards play pretty much most of the 2nd half of the year when he looked indifferent to trying, but I guess there is no proof to that).

Don't be so naive.
- Flyers1218

Well thanks for agreeing with me. I personally don't feel any of the issues you mentioned are true. I beleive that it's all manufactured BS in my opinion. And this year proved that even further as to the character of Richards and Carter as players.
- MJL

I'm lost as to what character they displayed. One moped his way off a team and the other was underwhelming all year on his team.

Carter and Richards both have proven that all of these rumors and speculation that was said, some of which you bring up again here, was unfounded. Both, Richards especially, have shown that they are winners and top players. Richards has been the exact opposite of how you label him his entire career. Including this year in LA.
- MJL

The fact that they won the Cup in LA doesn't disprove any of the rumors that persisted about them any more than Jeff Carter's abysmal performance in Columbus proved them to be true. A player traded to another organization comes into a brand new team with a "clean slate", and they are often on their best behvior and trying to impress their new teammates and bosses. That's a far cry from the entrenched position they were in here which led to a sense of entitlement and permanency that can breed a lack of discipline and focus. I have found many (not all) of the alleged rumors to be credible, based on people around the organization and other sources I have that shall remain nameless. You can continue to believe there was nothing to them, but that wouldn't be accurate.

Originally Posted by CharlieGirl View Post
When you figure out why they were traded, explain it to me, would ya? Because it blows. It sucked the day it happened, and it still does. The heart of the Flyers was yanked out one day last June, and shipped out west. He brought a winning mentality and a 'leave it all on the ice' approach to the game to a young team that saw how he played and applied it to their games. Both he and Carter were instrumental in LA's Cup run - not only for what they did on the ice, but the attitude needed and the experience of going through it before.

If the Flyers win the Cup in the next year or two, this won't hurt so badly. I'm not holding my breath - there are still a lot of pieces that need to be put in place, and Bryz has to not suck, before the Flyers can come close to winning.

The Kings (and a few recent other Cup winners) put a core group of young players together and had the patience to go through growing pains with them. When the time was right, they tweaked their roster slightly, adding veterans where necessary and team first players that fit into their team identity. And they won. The Flyers have never shown that patience and we're a long way away from it today.
- Feeling_Glucky

Yeah, Richards really left it all on the ice last year. In fact, he must of worked so hard that he left fitness on the ice too. Because last year he was fat, lazy, and heartless. And that, along with his entitled attitude is why he isn't here anymore. And for the last time, up until the playoffs he pretty much had the same mentality as he had his worst year since his rookie year I believe?

I'm lost as to what character they displayed. One moped his way off a team and the other was underwhelming all year on his team.
- JoeRussomanno

If I'm Homer and I could do it over again, I'd make the same trades and twice on Sunday.
- LordStanley88

Ditto (Except the twice on Sunday part. I'm a very busy man and don't have time for those sorts of shenanigans.)

Bottom line: the trade worked out well for both parties. Imho, of course.

Zach Parise expressed his desire to re-sign with the New Jersey Devils on Wednesday. "I like the people here," he said. "I like the staff, my teammates. I like the area. There's a lot of good things about this place." The Devils captain also said that if he did become an unrestricted free agent that he wouldn't sign with the New York Rangers, so scratch them off the potential list of suitors.
Source: The Bergen Record

Zach Parise expressed his desire to re-sign with the New Jersey Devils on Wednesday. "I like the people here," he said. "I like the staff, my teammates. I like the area. There's a lot of good things about this place." The Devils captain also said that if he did become an unrestricted free agent that he wouldn't sign with the New York Rangers, so scratch them off the potential list of suitors.
Source: The Bergen Record
- stveshdy

Money talks

Not true huh? Kimmo talking with Holmgren after the season about needing personnel changes because of the lockeroom didn't happen? Dry Island was all a rumor? Many players on this year's squad who were there last year didn't state how much better the room was such as Pronger, Hartnell, Giroux. Lavy and Richards didn't admit that their relationship was ice cold last year? Richards didn't show up an hour late to the jersey unveiling a few years back and then leave immediately following it, being in a bad mood the whole time towards fans? Peter Luuko didn't make a comment (which was so obviously a dig at Frick and Frack) about how Giroux during the Stanley Cup Finals was unlike any other young player because all he did was ask about how much more he could do? Mike Richards wouldn't wear a Flyers hat for interviews even when directed to by his bosses. Jeff Carter, a professional hockey player and an adult, barricaded himself in a beach house forcing his new bosses to come to him and convince him to do his job. Lastly, many annonomous Kings players earlier this year mentioned that Richards was dividing the room between his guys and Brown's guys. (I could even mention Richards play pretty much most of the 2nd half of the year when he looked indifferent to trying, but I guess there is no proof to that).

Don't be so naive.
- Flyers1218

- Giroux_Is_God

x2

x2
- stveshdy