Wasn't saying that Pronger on the ice was the biggest factor. Certainly helps but obviously he played only half a game at most. Talking leadership. I would imagine, as a forward, when Pronger calls you out for not backchecking properly, you respond with a better effort.

Stevens has been gone for quite some time. He was ok but we have guys doing just as well. I was not a big Carter fan. Certainly don't miss him coming down the wing and shooting a wrister from the circle.
- fnmjoe13

Yep, why would you miss him scoring 35-45 goals a Season coming down the Wing shooting a wrister. And he was and is a solid 2 way player. I don't think that effort is an issue with the Flyers as far as team defense. It's just making mistakes and not being in the right places, and losing coverage. This is not a team that lacks effort in my opinion.

Lol unfortunately last year they were so motivated they let the bruins sweep them lol./
- Philly1980

They lost to the eventual cup champs who were ruined by Philly the year before on a historic level.....actually...aside from this year, Philly's lost to the eventual cup champs a lot in recent memory.

Yep, why would you miss him scoring 35-45 goals a Season coming down the Wing shooting a wrister. And he was and is a solid 2 way player. I don't think that effort is an issue with the Flyers as far as team defense. It's just making mistakes and not being in the right places, and losing coverage. This is not a team that lacks effort in my opinion.
- MJL

Carter is a career negative 14 +/- guy in the playoffs...where you really need him. Awesome. Granted +/- is not the be all end all of defensive acumen but it does say something. He managed an even this year on a 16-4 team.

How has Giroux surpassed Mike Richards? Richards led the Flyers to the Cup Finals. Richards and Carter are first line players on a lot of teams in this League.
- MJL

Wow, you'd think that richards won us a cup in Sakic, Yzerman or Messier like fashion.

Carter is a career negative 14 +/- guy in the playoffs...where you really need him. Awesome. Granted +/- is not the be all end all of defensive acumen but it does say something. He managed an even this year on a 16-4 team.
- fnmjoe13

Doesn't change the fact that Carter is a solid defensive forward, and is much better then the majority of the current Flyers forwards in that area. And he also now has 2 Stanley Cup Final winning goals, including the Cup clinching goal, on his playoff resume.

Wow, you'd think that richards won us a cup in Sakic, Yzerman or Messier like fashion.
- roenick97

The fact is that Richards has accomplished more to this point then Giroux has. But I think that's going to change in the near future.

Doesn't change the fact that Carter is a solid defensive forward, and is much better then the majority of the current Flyers forwards in that area. And he also now has 2 Stanley Cup Final winning goals, including the Cup clinching goal, on his playoff resume.
- MJL

I'll give you credit, you sure like Carter. I am glad he is with the Kings and not the Flyers. He missed our Cup game winning goal in 2010. He is better as a support player.

I didn't say Giroux wasn't better then Richards. But in terms of surpassing a player, what's more important? Individual accomplishments or team accomplishments. The fact is that Richards was the Captain and led the team to the Cup Finals. It remains to be seen what Giroux and this team can do. I'm hopeful and fully believe that Giroux will lead this team to great things, as I think he has developed into a very special player. But Mike Richards is proven to be a winner on every level he has played. Giroux has not met, nor exceeded the accomplishments of Richards to this point.
- MJL

it'll be tough to judge because giroux is a lead dog and Richards is a support plyr - a very good one - but a support player nonetheless. Richards wasn't ready to be captain and I don't hold that against hm. I just hope they dont force feed clode.

The fact is that Richards has accomplished more to this point then Giroux has. But I think that's going to change in the near future.
- MJL

Fair statement.

I'll give you credit, you sure like Carter. I am glad he is with the Kings and not the Flyers. He missed our Cup game winning goal in 2010. He is better as a support player.
- fnmjoe13

It has zero to do with liking or not liking Carter. It has to do with simply what kind of player he is. The NHL is full of players who struggled in the playoffs early in their career, only to have success there as they got older and more experienced. And Carter just joined those ranks. And I personally never doubted that it would happen at some point. Far too good and skilled of a player for it to not.

Lappy pretty much nailed it. Giroux has stepped into Mike Richards role and surpassed what a Mike Richards can do. It's funny because I love the deals we made for Carter and Richards but I do believe we could use a Jeff Carter right now more then a Mike Richards.
- roenick97

You guys in Philly need to give your head a shake. Listen, you got GOOD players back but you lost a GREAT PLAYER (Richards) and a VERY GOOD player (Carter). Its easy to say, we wouldn't have won if they were still in Philly, but you were a lot closer with them, than you are now, without them.

Richards will likely go down as one of the best leaders in hockey when its all said and done for him. He will be right up there with some of the greats when talking 'greatest NHL leaders'. He's a winner, plain and simple. The guy leads by example and sure, you got good players back for him, but they will never match what he brings in leadership - never.

Add to that, a lot of these trades were made to bring in a terrible goalie in Bryz. He's never won anything and you guys gave him 50mil like you were giving out free samples of food at the Costco.

Pretty much, you rolled the dice and lost and are going to pay for as long as Bryz is in the net and as long as Richards plays for in his career. Trading Carter wasn't terrible, trading both Richards AND Carter was.

Make excuses all you want, its vindication for them and deep down it hurts every Philly fan....until Philly wins, they will wonder what if...and even if they do win, you'll have to wonder how many more championships you could've done with him vs. lets say winning 1.

Oh and by the way, Giroux will be a great player and your future captain, but will never be the leader Richards is.

Amen Lappy,

You guys in Philly need to give your head a shake. Listen, you got GOOD players back but you lost a GREAT PLAYER (Richards) and a VERY GOOD player (Carter). Its easy to say, we wouldn't have won if they were still in Philly, but you were a lot closer with them, than you are now, without them.

Richards will likely go down as one of the best leaders in hockey when its all said and done for him. He will be right up there with some of the greats when talking 'greatest NHL leaders'. He's a winner, plain and simple. The guy leads by example and sure, you got good players back for him, but they will never match what he brings in leadership - never.

Add to that, a lot of these trades were made to bring in a terrible goalie in Bryz. He's never won anything and you guys gave him 50mil like you were giving out free samples of food at the Costco.

Pretty much, you rolled the dice and lost and are going to pay for as long as Bryz is in the net and as long as Richards plays for in his career. Trading Carter wasn't terrible, trading both Richards AND Carter was.

Make excuses all you want, its vindication for them and deep down it hurts every Philly fan....until Philly wins, they will wonder what if...and even if they do win, you'll have to wonder how many more championships you could've done with him vs. lets say winning 1.

Oh and by the way, Giroux will be a great player and your future captain, but will never be the leader Richards is.
- BodyCheckRadio

Just one question Ottawa Senators' fan. Who do you think has watched more Flyers Hockey in recent years, me or you? Nobody has discounted what Mike Richards can do. Jeff Carter would be more suited for our team because we're missing a pure shooter at the moment. Richards MIGHT be known as a great leader if you'd like to buy into the hype but he's not a future hall of famer and I'm not seeing how he'll end up being one of the NHL greatest leaders. Can we compare Mike Richards to Mark Messier? More then likely not. I like Mike Richards and he now has a Cup but LA didn't win under his leadership and every single player on that LA Kings' roster deserves credit.

As for Bryzgalov. The Philadelphia Flyers need to play better defensively, they don't need a goalie.

It must be total bliss to not know what's you're talking about, eh?

I don't know ANY Flyers fans that liked the deals before and now don't like the deals because the Kings won. I don't know where that comes from, not here on hockey buzz or WIP or any other blogs I have seen. I will say this, it's tough watching Richards and Carter winning a Cup after they failed to do it here. I don't think it's any vindication for them either. Yes they won but as secondary players with less pressure, where as here in Philly they were the leaders and failed. No doubt they are winners but I wouldn't un do either trade.
- killercam

You are correct sir, yes! This idea that Richards and Carter winning the cup was a dagger in heart to Flyer fans is a media creation fueled by fans of teams that hate Flyer fans. It's Penguin fans and Ranger fans saying that the Kings winning the cup is killing Flyer fans and that Flyer fans hate the trades. Flyer fans understand that these were good trades for the Flyers. We liked the trades last summer and we like them now. And last summer no Flyer fans were predicting a cup run this year. The fact that it all came together for the Kings, Carter and Richards, I would say, actually makes Flyer fans happy - certainly better them than the Devils or Rangers!! We feel just like Lappy, we wish it was us but we're very happy for Carter, Richards, Williams and the other former Flyers - especially Gagne. Seeing Gagne raise the cup had me standing up and cheering, and brought a tear to my eye. No hate, just congratulate.

From a Flyer fan, I say congrats Richards, Carter and the others . . . but I sure wish it was us!!

Just one question Ottawa Senators' fan. Who do you think has watched more Flyers Hockey in recent years, me or you? Nobody has discounted what Mike Richards can do. Jeff Carter would be more suited for our team because we're missing a pure shooter at the moment. Richards MIGHT be known as a great leader if you'd like to buy into the hype but he's not a future hall of famer and I'm not seeing how he'll end up being one of the NHL greatest leaders. Can we compare Mike Richards to Mark Messier? More then likely not. I like Mike Richards and he now has a Cup but LA didn't win under his leadership and every single player on that LA Kings' roster deserves credit.

As for Bryzgalov. The Philadelphia Flyers need to play better defensively, they don't need a goalie.

It must be total bliss to not know what's you're talking about, eh?
- roenick97

They need both

Just one question Ottawa Senators' fan. Who do you think has watched more Flyers Hockey in recent years, me or you? Nobody has discounted what Mike Richards can do. Jeff Carter would be more suited for our team because we're missing a pure shooter at the moment. Richards MIGHT be known as a great leader if you'd like to buy into the hype but he's not a future hall of famer and I'm not seeing how he'll end up being one of the NHL greatest leaders. Can we compare Mike Richards to Mark Messier? More then likely not. I like Mike Richards and he now has a Cup but LA didn't win under his leadership and every single player on that LA Kings' roster deserves credit.

As for Bryzgalov. The Philadelphia Flyers need to play better defensively, they don't need a goalie.

It must be total bliss to not know what's you're talking about, eh?
- roenick97

...keep drinking the kool aid they serve there...also known as crappy beer. I actually like the Flyers, probably saw them play second most behind Ottawa....they play exciting hockey.

That said, Richards will be a lock for the HOF, no doubt. Secondly, will he be better than Messier? - no, but he will in the conversation right behind him....

Look, I know it stings losing him then seeing the guy traded out of town win the cup, but the harsh reality is, Philly lost that deal - end of story, and it hurts the team. Carter deal was fine IMO, decent trade for Philly I would say, but the Richards one kills. Schenn and Simmonds will be good, but won't match what Richards brings....ever. Most fans outside of Philly will tell you the same thing and even some SMART fans in Philly will too.

And if you think the problem is the defence and not Bryz, you're on BAD DRUGS. That guy is a bigger siv then Pat Lalime, the only difference was we didn't fork over 50 mil for him and trade away one of our best players to do so....oh, and Lalime beat you in the playoffs too, actually contributed to winning that series and wasn't a passenger like Bryz. The only reason Philly beat Pitt was cuz Fleury decided to be a siv too....I think my golden lab dog would've saved more than Fleury....

Stick to baseball or perhaps Nascar.

Agreed. And the players received will hopefully benefit the Flyers for years to come.



This, on the other hand...
- atc

What if they had traded for a real goalie like Quick, do they win with Richards and Carter?

Most fans who are down on the trades are one dimensional fans. They don't see the big picture. They don't realize that just because the Kings won with Richards and Carter, that doesn't mean the Flyers would have won this year with them. The Kings won because of Kopitar, Brown, and Quick. They were the key components. The other guys played hard and helped playing their roles, but Quick, Kopitar, and Brown were the ones who shouldered the load. Richards and Carter were the two "superstars" here expected to bring us to the Promise Land. In LA they were second line guys. They were utilized properly and that is where they belong. They're not NHL superstars, they're just NHL stars. Richards was too immature and too much of a partier to be a captain. He was rushed into the Captain role, a role he was not mature enough to handle with the off ice distractions. He whined in the press when he didn't get his way, wasn't smart with his off ice antics, and never could put the team 1st when he was off the ice. People can claim the media over hyped it, but the media didn't doctor up pictures of the boys partying and put them all over the internet. The boys did that on their own. When you're seen out partying by fans on game nights, well that's going to get out there when you're not producing. When the organization steps in and asks you to be a leader off the ice as well and you don't..... well that's not the actions of a great NHL captain. You'd never see a Lidstrom, Messier, Yzerman, or Clarke doing that stuff. Team ALWAYS came 1st; on and off the ice. Richards and Carters gave us some good years here and I'm happy for them, but they didn't bring a Cup to Philly nor were they going to. We needed bigger key components to compete. They helped bring it to LA because they already had those components: Kopitar, Brown, and Quick.

Most fans who are down on the trades are one dimensional fans. They don't see the big picture. They don't realize that just because the Kings won with Richards and Carter, that doesn't mean the Flyers would have won this year with them. The Kings won because of Kopitar, Brown, and Quick. They were the key components. The other guys played hard and helped playing their roles, but Quick, Kopitar, and Brown were the ones who shouldered the load. Richards and Carter were the two "superstars" here expected to bring us to the Promise Land. In LA they were second line guys. They were utilized properly and that is where they belong. They're not NHL superstars, they're just NHL stars. Richards was too immature and too much of a partier to be a captain. He was rushed into the Captain role, a role he was not mature enough to handle with the off ice distractions. He whined in the press when he didn't get his way, wasn't smart with his off ice antics, and never could put the team 1st when he was off the ice. People can claim the media over hyped it, but the media didn't doctor up pictures of the boys partying and put them all over the internet. The boys did that on their own. When you're seen out partying by fans on game nights, well that's going to get out there when you're not producing. When the organization steps in and asks you to be a leader off the ice as well and you don't..... well that's not the actions of a great NHL captain. You'd never see a Lidstrom, Messier, Yzerman, or Clarke doing that stuff. Team ALWAYS came 1st; on and off the ice. Richards and Carters gave us some good years here and I'm happy for them, but they didn't bring a Cup to Philly nor were they going to. We needed bigger key components to compete. They helped bring it to LA because they already had those components: Kopitar, Brown, and Quick.
- DinkusMaximus

I didn't realize those pictures were dated with times on them. The same pictures are out there of Giroux and Briere. Even photographed with the same reputed porn star. Did they all of a sudden stop partying and reform their wayward ways in LA?

hey, someone let tim know that giroux led the team in ice time (among forwards) in the regular season and playoffs (significantly so) and was the team MVP in 2010-2011

hey, someone let tim know that giroux led the team in ice time (among forwards) in the regular season and playoffs (significantly so) and was the team MVP in 2010-2011
- OrangeBlack27

I was in the middle of sending him an email anyways so i will add that at the end, you're welcome.

I was in the middle of sending him an email anyways so i will add that at the end, you're welcome.
- Oilhab

"Carter and Richards aided a club that was going nowhere to suddenly come alive and then find its pulse behind yet another story of a goalie who got hot at the right time in Jonathan Quick."

When exactly are you referring to, early or mid October?

Cute how you said you guys wouldn't be able to sign bryz if you guys didn't get rid of the party boys. You said that like he's quick, or rinne, or lundqvist. Someone said he doesn't have the mental make up in the comments, and he's right, i forgot how long you guys signed him for, and how long is left, but as long as he's goalie, no cup for you guys, on the other hand, with Simmonds, Schenn, who im sad that he got traded before having a chance to play, and voracek and coutuirer, all will be great players, and I doubt all of them are still hear by the time bryz is gone. Philly made the wrong choice getting bryz, instead of working on his five hole, he wants to be an astronaut, and some other crap about space, good job bryz, you screwed the flyers.

"Carter and Richards aided a club that was going nowhere to suddenly come alive and then find its pulse behind yet another story of a goalie who got hot at the right time in Jonathan Quick."

When exactly are you referring to, early or mid October?
- King of Kings

ty.

also, it's like no one watched these games. the kings play terrific team defense. quick was obviously outstanding all year, but the kings give up very little (regular season and playoffs), which help make his numbers even gaudier.