Actually....no....Bobby Hull was not a one diminutional player.....back in the day....you didn't play if you didn't play responsible....Bobby used to joke he taught Brett to score....but had nothing to do with his defense .
- landros 2

Bobby Hull was leading the NHL in goals, he would have found a gig regardless of his defense. He was a responsible defensive player, but he didn't have to be an outstanding two way forward because his offense was so good.

My point with Couturier's dad was that without working his ass off to be a better player he wouldn't have made it to the NHL or had as long a pro career as he did.

I see where you were going.....but I just don't share your JVR appraisal.....that was like pinning the Bobby Clarke moniker on. Mike Richards.
- landros 2

I was not saying that JvR would be LeClair. Pointing out that trading JvR at age 23 could end up like Montreal trading LeClair at 25 when he reaches his potential.

Yup, You know now the 4 d-men alone I've brought up for the draft. Have some forwards in mind too.
- ob18

Take the guy at the top of your draft chart, regardless of position

Take the guy at the top of your draft chart, regardless of position
- Jsaquella

Yup, it's likely to be defense. Would hope they can be patient to let whoever the select to develop.

And there are nights were JVR....looks just as disinterested.
- landros 2

Totally different scenario between the two players. Not an accurate comparison.

I see where you were going.....but I just don't share your JVR appraisal.....that was like pinning the Bobby Clarke moniker on. Mike Richards.
- landros 2

Hard to judge the players. Two different era's and the game has changed. Something to also consider is you cant evaluate a players heart, desire, determination, and work ethic. Each player is an individual.

John LeClair was also drafted in Round 2 at pick #33. Thats alittle different then being selected #2 overall. JvR is going to have greater expectations imo. So being patient can be hard to do (I do agree with you there). Will see what he does this upcoming season. I think hes still here unless hes used in a package deal to acquire a legit defenseman.

Carle is brutal....I was being kind earlier....as well someone earlier made the comparison on Leclair......I don't see it...yes that's what all Flyer fans hoped for ....that's just not realistic.
- landros 2

And now we see what the real issue is.

I was not saying that JvR would be LeClair. Pointing out that trading JvR at age 23 could end up like Montreal trading LeClair at 25 when he reaches his potential.
- Jsaquella

As much as like JVR, unfortunately I think he is going to be a victim of circumstance. No one could have predicted Pronger's injury. The rookies have just played so amazingly well, the team has so much more depth then it would have thought at the beginning of last season. Not to mention, Voracek and Simmonds gave the team more in production than anticipated.

If Weber is available, I think the stars aligned for him to be a chip in a trade and he will probably reach his potential. However, like giving up Sbisa in the Pronger deal, including JVR in a Weber deal I feel will be worth it.

As much as like JVR, unfortunately I think he is going to be a victim of circumstance. No one could have predicted Pronger's injury. The rookies have just played so amazingly well, the team has so much more depth then it would have thought at the beginning of last season. Not to mention, Voracek and Simmonds gave the team more in production than anticipated.

If Weber is available, I think the stars aligned for him to be a chip in a trade and he will probably reach his potential. However, like giving up Sbisa in the Pronger deal, including JVR in a Weber deal I feel will be worth it.
- ravishingone

I don't think you would find a single Flyers fan who would disagree with giving up JVR to acquire Weber.

Totally different scenario between the two players. Not an accurate comparison.
- MJL

Not for me I guess....incomplete .....is the grade I would give JVR to this point.....would I trade him just for the sake of trading him.....obviously not.....but I wouldn't hesitate in trading him as part of a package for a Rick Nash or. Shea Weber.....

Hard to judge the players. Two different era's and the game has changed. Something to also consider is you cant evaluate a players heart, desire, determination, and work ethic. Each player is an individual.

John LeClair was also drafted in Round 2 at pick #33. Thats alittle different then being selected #2 overall. JvR is going to have greater expectations imo. So being patient can be hard to do (I do agree with you there). Will see what he does this upcoming season. I think hes still here unless hes used in a package deal to acquire a legit defenseman.
- stveshdy

The thing is, a LOT of big forwards took longer to develop. Guys like LeClair, Lecavalier, Bertuzzi, they were not great out of the gate. There were knocks about skating, conditioning, intensity, physicality....and they developed into very good players.

Regardless of expectations, you can't expect a player who spent a lot of his youth being the best player on the ice without having to work his ass off to suddenly know what it takes to be successful when every other guy was the best player on his team growing up.

As much as like JVR, unfortunately I think he is going to be a victim of circumstance. No one could have predicted Pronger's injury. The rookies have just played so amazingly well, the team has so much more depth then it would have thought at the beginning of last season. Not to mention, Voracek and Simmonds gave the team more in production than anticipated.

If Weber is available, I think the stars aligned for him to be a chip in a trade and he will probably reach his potential. However, like giving up Sbisa in the Pronger deal, including JVR in a Weber deal I feel will be worth it.
- ravishingone

I'd have little issue trading him in a deal that sees them get Shea Weber. I'm not totally against trading him in a Nash deal, either. So long as it makes sense. Just adding a big star doesn't automatically make the team better.

And now we see what the real issue is.
- MJL

Sure....I don't like Matt Carle....and yes I would trade JVR too get help on D or a franchise winger....you got me.

Not for me I guess....incomplete .....is the grade I would give JVR to this point.....would I trade him just for the sake of trading him.....obviously not.....but I wouldn't hesitate in trading him as part of a package for a Rick Nash or. Shea Weber.....
- landros 2

No kidding he's an incomplete! LOL That's the whole point. So how can you place final judgement on a player who's just getting started?

Sure....I don't like Matt Carle....and yes I would trade JVR too get help on D or a franchise winger....you got me.
- landros 2

I have no issue trading JVR for the right player. And it's about more then the fact that you don't like Carle.

http://thehockeyguys.net/...rs-working-to-reach-deal/

“There’s no question I want to be here, the past four years have been great and I really feel like Philly has become a second home for my family and me,” Matt Carle said. “The guys on this team are unbelievable and I know this is a team built for winning now and for years to come.”

The thing is, a LOT of big forwards took longer to develop. Guys like LeClair, Lecavalier, Bertuzzi, they were not great out of the gate. There were knocks about skating, conditioning, intensity, physicality....and they developed into very good players.

Regardless of expectations, you can't expect a player who spent a lot of his youth being the best player on the ice without having to work his ass off to suddenly know what it takes to be successful when every other guy was the best player on his team growing up.
- Jsaquella

I had a response and typed it up and then my internet connection crashed. Too lazy to retype my thoughts.

I have no issue trading JVR for the right player. And it's about more then the fact that you don't like Carle.
- MJL

Not really....he's a disaster in his own end.....and I fear signing him to an unrealistic contract would hurt this team going forward simply because the pick ins are slim....
This team has the pieces for a bright future....this last year was great to watch....I do hope they address the need on d. But at the same time Rick Nash is one heck of a hockey player....so if you have a chance to add him I hope they do.....

Just found out that if there is a game 7, I have a ticket to go to the game. Still can't root for the Devils tonight even with the chance to see a game 7 of a SCF, something that is a once in a lifetime opportunity. If I knew the Devils would lose a game 7, I would root like hell for them tonight, still can't take the chance as I don't think the Kings would be able to win with all the momentum against them.

Any normal person would just hope to see a game 7 of a SCF in person, I just can't bare to see the Devils win another Cup, let alone in person. If I'm in the building and the Devils win, I will go up to the concourse when they present the Cup.

I got issues.

I had a response and typed it up and then my internet connection crashed. Too lazy to retype my thoughts.

- stveshdy

I'll be honest, I wanna plug JvR in on Giroux's line and see what happens. No, he won't be the beast in the crease that LeClair or Kerr could be. But, he also could turn into a very capable power forward with 30+ goal ability playing on a line with Giroux and Jagr.

http://thehockeyguys.net/breaking-matt-carle-and-philadelphia-flyers-working-to-reach-deal/

“There’s no question I want to be here, the past four years have been great and I really feel like Philly has become a second home for my family and me,” Matt Carle said. “The guys on this team are unbelievable and I know this is a team built for winning now and for years to come.”
- Jsaquella

Doesn't mean I have to like him.....

I'll be honest, I wanna plug JvR in on Giroux's line and see what happens. No, he won't be the beast in the crease that LeClair or Kerr could be. But, he also could turn into a very capable power forward with 30+ goal ability playing on a line with Giroux and Jagr.
- Jsaquella

I prefer him on that line as well. JvR playing with Briere is a disaster in their own end.

Not really....he's a disaster in his own end.....and I fear signing him to an unrealistic contract would hurt this team going forward simply because the pick ins are slim....
This team has the pieces for a bright future....this last year was great to watch....I do hope they address the need on d. But at the same time Rick Nash is one heck of a hockey player....so if you have a chance to add him I hope they do.....
- landros 2

\

Yes really. Carle is far from a disaster in his own end. That couldn't be further from reality.He's a solid defender. And the contract that is rumored to be signed is a very fair deal for the player and the team. The issue is your inaccurate assessment of both players.

I'll be honest, I wanna plug JvR in on Giroux's line and see what happens. No, he won't be the beast in the crease that LeClair or Kerr could be. But, he also could turn into a very capable power forward with 30+ goal ability playing on a line with Giroux and Jagr.
- Jsaquella

If he stays in Philly hopefully they give him that chance.

I'd have little issue trading him in a deal that sees them get Shea Weber. I'm not totally against trading him in a Nash deal, either. So long as it makes sense. Just adding a big star doesn't automatically make the team better.
- Jsaquella

Agreed, here's a crazy thought, Poile has to know before the draft whether he can sign Suter or not. Would he trade Suter's rights and also trade Weber? Not resign Carle, Kimmo's money comes off the books next year, and Pronger will be on LTIR. Nashville would have to take money back in the deal, but they did once trade Kimmo and Hartnell (granted both were UFAs). I know its stupid crazy, but